Question about Robinson

[laramsoriginal]

He only started for two years and played in a Nintendo offense. Picking him at number 2 would be a mistake for a team like the rams attempting to breakthrough the hardest division in football.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Devaney kept drooling about his run blocking ability and how he would monster whoever was in front of him.

But when you Draft someone at #2 you need them to be able to pass protect more. Ends would use smith's aggressiveness against him and get him off balance. He was a turnstile as a LT.

The guy was a project. They should have known he was a project. An awful pick, especially with so much money on the line. Not that there was much better behind him but that doesn't excuse the pick.

.

I have similar concerns with Robinson. I don't see a great pass protector.

I like Matthews better. It is funny that people seem to think Robinson is the run blocker and Matthews is the pass protector. Matthews is not weak at run blocking. With Bradford not being the best at sensing pressure, I want the best pass protector available.

 

[Alan]

Matthews was not a shutdown pass protector in college and he's described as "not athletic".
Do people think he'll be able to handle the better DEs of the NFL?
I have doubts about both of them.

 

[jrry32]

Matthews was not a shutdown pass protector in college and he's described as "not athletic".
Do people think he'll be able to handle the better DEs of the NFL?
I have doubts about both of them.

Not athletic? I'd like to meet the person who describes him as that. There are a lot of things you can say about Jake Matthews..."not athletic" wouldn't be one of the things I'd say.

 

[den-the-coach]

Not athletic? I'd like to meet the person who describes him as that. There are a lot of things you can say about Jake Matthews..."not athletic" wouldn't be one of the things I'd say.

Agreed, so if it came down to Robinson or Matthews which way would you go sir?

 

[Alan]

Not athletic? I'd like to meet the person who describes him as that. There are a lot of things you can say about Jake Matthews..."not athletic" wouldn't be one of the things I'd say.

Walter Football
"Matthews is a quality run-blocker, but he isn't overwhelming in the ground game. Matthews also doesn't play with a mean streak, and the same thing was said about Luke Joeckel last year."
NFL Draft Scout
"Matthews can get himself in trouble when he stops moving his feet and his lack of elite foot speed and balance may limit just how high he can go on draft day."
"Though Matthews won't blow anyone away with his athleticism, like Staley he's a sound technician with impressive toughness who exhibits no major weaknesses, and is tough to beat in both facets of the offense."
Football's Future
"While not an athletic marvel or physically imposing figure, very few can match his total package."
"He isn't going to move many people off the ball, but he does have good initial power, strong hands, and will battle to the whistle."
Football Outsiders http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-texas-am-ot-jake-matthews
"A criticism I’ve read about Matthews is that he might lack NFL quickness to handle the left tackle spot. This might be a true concern, but based on what I’ve seen I have what might be a more nuanced explanation."
"If the long arm length or quickness do manifest as issues for Matthews, this 21-year old tackle has a good chance of adding muscle to his 305-pound frame and transitioning to guard"
First Round Grade http://firstroundgrade.com/2013/07/18/tale-of-the-tape-taylor-lewan-vs-jake-matthews/
"I have little doubt that Matthews will be considered the best athlete at the position for the 2014 NFL Draft." Supports your view.

Doesn't sound like a player who can really shine at Guard until Long is gone.
Might supplant Barksdale at RT and move him to swingman.
The view held by the draft "experts" seems to be divided just like us.
My questions concerning both of them remain.

(Jeff)

 

[brokeu91]

I thought he said highest grade of an OT prospect since OP ... ??

I remember that podcast he did with Kiper. He basically said of all of the tackles he evaluated he has the most athletic ability as far as at the point of attack that he has ever evaluated.

He prefaced that by saying he never evaluated Pace, as he was before his time

 

[The Rammer]

I still have no idea how the heck he got picked second overall.

Look at the prospects of the the draft at the time.... there weren't many decent prospects that seemed apparent for the #2 pick at the time. OFC we can all look back and see others who would of been a better pick.

 

[jjab360]

Look at the prospects of the the draft at the time.... there weren't many decent prospects that seemed apparent for the #2 pick at the time. OFC we can all look back and see others who would of been a better pick.

Not buying it. Wanted Monroe, Smith, or Crabtree at the time and screamed at the TV when we picked Smith. At least they turned out to be average to above average players, a player as raw and physically average as Smith never deserved to be picked no.2 in any draft ever.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I remember Devanney thinking that they found a diamond in the rough. I only speculate that it was in the November brews with Billy report, but Smith fit the description. Thing is he thought he would be a second round pick. Everyone knows now that it was a bad draft. Not a lot of top talent came out of it and nearly all top ten picks underwhelmed their teams on the field.

I disagree about Matthews not being athletic. I guess the combine can shed some light on that. But Robinson has as much to prove if not more as a left tackle.

 

[Boffo97]

Look at the prospects of the the draft at the time.... there weren't many decent prospects that seemed apparent for the #2 pick at the time. OFC we can all look back and see others who would of been a better pick.

Of what was there and wouldn't get the Rams publicly pilloried for "reaching", only Crabtree has even been decent, but he hasn't played at anything like a #2 overall level. Most of those who didn't like the Smith pick wanted Aaron Curry, who busted out faster than Smith did.

I know others disagree, but I'm not going to blame Devaney for the Smith pick. In a no-win situation, he went with what he thought was the safest pick. It still didn't work out anyway, but the 2009 draft made a lot of GMs look bad.

 

[The Rammer]

Not buying it. Wanted Monroe, Smith, or Crabtree at the time and screamed at the TV when we picked Smith. At least they turned out to be average to above average players, a player as raw and physically average as Smith never deserved to be picked no.2 in any draft ever.

I agree I wanted Mr. Monroe and Crabtree myself but for some reason nobody thought of them high enough to be taken #2 overall in that draft.....
Guess as they say hindsight is 20/20 any of them could have turned out as unproven commodities but I think over the years Mr. Crabtree in the least would of given Sam a decent target to throw at and Monroe to be a decent OL prospect for years to come..

 

[The Rammer]

Of what was there and wouldn't get the Rams publicly pilloried for "reaching", only Crabtree has even been decent, but he hasn't played at anything like a #2 overall level. Most of those who didn't like the Smith pick wanted Aaron Curry, who busted out faster than Smith did.

I know others disagree, but I'm not going to blame Devaney for the Smith pick. In a no-win situation, he went with what he thought was the safest pick. It still didn't work out anyway, but the 2009 draft made a lot of GMs look bad.

If we would of taken anybody else we would of been publicly bludgeoned to death I agree. No way we were taking anybody else with that pcik and what our current state of affairs of the franchise were. Taht draft was the one draft in recent years that having the #2 pick was a BAD BAD thing!

 

[Boffo97]

If we would of taken anybody else we would of been publicly bludgeoned to death I agree. No way we were taking anybody else with that pcik and what our current state of affairs of the franchise were. Taht draft was the one draft in recent years that having the #2 pick was a BAD BAD thing!

And without the rookie slotting system we have now, trading the pick would have been very difficult.

 

[jrry32]

Walter Football
"Matthews is a quality run-blocker, but he isn't overwhelming in the ground game. Matthews also doesn't play with a mean streak, and the same thing was said about Luke Joeckel last year."
NFL Draft Scout
"Matthews can get himself in trouble when he stops moving his feet and his lack of elite foot speed and balance may limit just how high he can go on draft day."
"Though Matthews won't blow anyone away with his athleticism, like Staley he's a sound technician with impressive toughness who exhibits no major weaknesses, and is tough to beat in both facets of the offense."
Football's Future
"While not an athletic marvel or physically imposing figure, very few can match his total package."
"He isn't going to move many people off the ball, but he does have good initial power, strong hands, and will battle to the whistle."
Football Outsiders http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-texas-am-ot-jake-matthews
"A criticism I’ve read about Matthews is that he might lack NFL quickness to handle the left tackle spot. This might be a true concern, but based on what I’ve seen I have what might be a more nuanced explanation."
"If the long arm length or quickness do manifest as issues for Matthews, this 21-year old tackle has a good chance of adding muscle to his 305-pound frame and transitioning to guard"
First Round Grade http://firstroundgrade.com/2013/07/18/tale-of-the-tape-taylor-lewan-vs-jake-matthews/
"I have little doubt that Matthews will be considered the best athlete at the position for the 2014 NFL Draft." Supports your view.

Doesn't sound like a player who can really shine at Guard until Long is gone.
Might supplant Barksdale at RT and move him to swingman.
The view held by the draft "experts" seems to be divided just like us.
My questions concerning both of them remain.

(Jeff)

Jeff, I do appreciate the links. However, I think there's a difference between not being an elite athlete and not being athletic. I've seen the film for myself, Matthews has the feet, coordination and balance to play LT in the NFL. He's not Lane Johnson, Walter Jones or Trent Williams in terms of athleticism(rare freaks) but he's right there with guys like Russell Okung, Matt Kalil and Jordan Gross in terms of athleticism and all have become quality NFL LTs because they're good athletes.

I think he'll have himself a very solid combine. Won't run a 4.7 40 like Lane did but his workout numbers will be comparable to a lot of the top tier OTs that have come out of over the last decade. He's a good athlete...just not elite.

 

[jrry32]

Agreed, so if it came down to Robinson or Matthews which way would you go sir?

Until I can find enough film of Robinson pass blocking on an island at a high level(hard to find), it's gotta be Matthews for me. Unless they're drafting a guy purely to play OG.

 

[Alan]

Jeff, I do appreciate the links. However, I think there's a difference between not being an elite athlete and not being athletic. I've seen the film for myself, Matthews has the feet, coordination and balance to play LT in the NFL. He's not Lane Johnson, Walter Jones or Trent Williams in terms of athleticism(rare freaks) but he's right there with guys like Russell Okung, Matt Kalil and Jordan Gross in terms of athleticism and all have become quality NFL LTs because they're good athletes.

I think he'll have himself a very solid combine. Won't run a 4.7 40 like Lane did but his workout numbers will be comparable to a lot of the top tier OTs that have come out of over the last decade. He's a good athlete...just not elite.

I posted those quotes because you asked for them.
"I'd like to meet the person who describes him as that."
Ask and you shall receive.
Sometimes.
My concern with Matthews is that if you aren't a shutdown LOT in college and you've already maxed out technique wise, where does that leave you in the NFL?
I'm sure his Dad coached him up from a very early age.
He'll probably be good but not top ten in the draft good.
Probably not a great candidate to shift to guard either.

Robinson comes with different concerns for me.
Who knows whether he can pass block.
At all.
But he's a great run blocker and so can be shifted over to guard and we still get our money's worth.
Although not top 5 money's worth.
If he can be coached up by Boo then he can be potentially in Pace's class.
Probably not as good in pass pro but better than Pace in run blocking.
Big huge if though.

(Jeff)

 

[duckhunter]

Until I can find enough film of Robinson pass blocking on an island at a high level(hard to find), it's gotta be Matthews for me. Unless they're drafting a guy purely to play OG.

I would suggest reviewing the first half of the MU game. Auburn early in the game tried to pass a little more than usual while MU stacked the box. Kony Ealy gave Robinson fits in pass pro. IMO, Ealy owned him. Kony had two sacks by my eyes. Others say only 1.

Starting in the 2nd Qtr Auburn switched to their option run game and it was over from there. MU played a lot of 3-4 which they never do and it was a disaster.

 

[jrry32]

I posted those quotes because you asked for them.
"I'd like to meet the person who describes him as that."
Ask and you shall receive.
Sometimes.
My concern with Matthews is that if you aren't a shutdown LOT in college and you've already maxed out technique wise, where does that leave you in the NFL?
I'm sure his Dad coached him up from a very early age.
He'll probably be good but not top ten in the draft good.
Probably not a great candidate to shift to guard either.

(Jeff)

I guess that's where we differ. I thought Matthews did a heck of a job at OT this year. It's hard to be a shutdown LT with a guy like Manziel. Because as much as he helps you with his running ability, he also hurts you by getting greedy, holding the ball too long and running himself into pressure.

In the games I watched, I rarely saw Matthews get straight up beaten by the man he was blocking.

 

[Ramrasta]

He only started for two years and played in a Nintendo offense. Picking him at number 2 would be a mistake for a team like the rams attempting to breakthrough the hardest division in football.

Possibly. Or maybe he transitions well and becomes a new Orlando Pace. What is stopping him?