Poll: Keep Raheem or get two 3rd round comp picks?

[Hobgoblin]

I hope he's DC for life. The regular melt downs and over reactions need to continue imo.

 

[JimY53]

Look at how close some of those metrics are, particularly yards per play. DVOA is close the last two years, we got more pressure this year.

Confused ---- maybe I am not reading your comment right.

But interms of pressure --- 2021 was far better. This year a bit better than 2023 but 2023 Donald was gone for 5+ games.


number of blitzes
2021 - 9th
2022 - 13th
2023 - 15th

Pressures
2021 - 11th
2022 - 29th
2023 - 24th

But the DVOA is worse, defensive points allowed (takes out pick 6s, etc from offense and ST) are not better.

So, I am not seeing what you are saying on the numbers

Now think about the difference in personnel.

That's why it's his best coaching job.

Here we agree. He did well with less. But he did less with less, too. Defense was mostly worse but people are giving credit for having little money spent on defensive players outside Donald.

But the defense was not better, IMO. Pretty much the same as 2022 as a whole but not close to what 2022 was when Donald was there and not close to 2021, DVOA = 5th, defensive points allowed (takes out Stafford's pick 6s) was 5th.
In 2022 defensive points allowed was 14th. In 2023 is is 20th.

And the ring.... Morris's best results were 2021 and the first 11 weeks of 2022. But if you want to factor in the level of talent --- then you have a case.

 

[Haden]

Huh? Pierce did a great job with the Raiders, Mayo just got hired and Gannon took over a train wreck and had them competitive.
You said the trend was not defensive coaches, yet I just rattled off 4 who were recently hired. Belichick will be hired soon, Vrabel will be back next year if not this year.
The trend does not in any way shy away from defensive coaches

EDIT-
after some quick research I compiled the list of the current and previous year's hires.
2023
Cardinals- Gannon D
Colts- Steichen O
Broncos- Payton O
Texans- Ryans D
2024
Pats- Mayo D
Raiders- Pierce D
Titans- Callahan O
Chargers- Harbaugh Hybrid
4 of 7 hired, Defensive. Harbaugh could make an argument either way
Open
Falcons- Belichick? D
Panthers- do they even count?
Seahawks- Seems like they are leaning D
Washington- Seems like they are leaning O

So in the recent hiring, teams have elected to hire a Defensive coach some 50-60% of the time, if there's a trend it's toward defense

First, I don't think Pierce did great. Jury is out, and just because Bowl Cut Davis picks the coach, that more likely means he will fail. We'll see after a full season whether he puts them in the playoffs. I'm a doubter..

Gannon won a handful of games. No proof there whatsoever.

Harbaugh is offense, please. He's a known QB whisperer and a former QB.

Panthers took the OC from the Bucs

Belicheat is washed and has been without Brady

But you're actually changing the topic. My assertion is not that I think a defensive guy can't be a great HC. It is that the league is trending toward offense. Thus, I don't think Raheem gets a job. Its a pretty straightforward claim. There is nothing about Raheem as a DC that would elevate him above the (less than 50%) DC guys who get the job. Quinn (and I think he will fail if he goes to Seattle) had a top 5 D. Us, not so much.

 

[dieterbrock]

Seattle has two 3rd round picks in 2024 if by chance Raheem ends up there.

They dont give those picks up though, comp picks are just added

 

[dieterbrock]

But you're actually changing the topic. My assertion is not that I think a defensive guy can't be a great HC.

Now That's totally changing the topic
What you said, which is not true at all, is that being a defensive minded coach is detrimental to being hired.

I would be really surprised if anyone signed him to be a HC. Defensive minded coaches are out of vogue these days. It is an offense driven league.

Couldnt be further from the truth. The current hiring trend shows that, many if not more, Defensive minded coaches are being hired as HC

 

[gogoat1]

It was offensive. To me.

So, mind your own sensibilities, I’ll mind mine.

Cool, you post what you want, I will do the same.

 

[Alaskan Ram]

That's fair and accurate. It's a trade-off and it was a calculated decision by McVay to go with a defense he had problems with. If blitzing teams were what he was concerned about he could have hired a blitz-type DC in 2020. But it comes down to numbers ... blitzing can work (and fail) and 'bend but don't break' can work (and fail) and a mix of both can work and can fail.

Execution plays the biggest role in any defense. Or offense. It can be a perfect call on offense and the QB can throw a pick. Or it can be a bad call and result in a TD and everywhere in between. It's what is great about football.

I suspect the way McVay felt was the Fangio scheme would allow fewer points than the others so he went with it maybe thinking that the fewest points allowed were more important than TOP or yards allowed. I don't know that for sure, but that's my guess.

Very good stuff.

McVay reminds me of a grinder hold-em poker player. Conservative as an overall mantra to his approach but aggressive when he has the nuts. He's loves winning the middle of the game with the extra possession and he loves the tactical boring win being up 2 scores in the 4th.

I think he's a hell of a coach. And I suspect he's a better coach with Morris on D.

I believe we already have the max 4 comp picks (3 in 6th and 1 in 5th). Sure it would be nice to swap out two of those 5ths with 3rds.

I really can't explain this shit properly. I want Morris to stick around.

 

[Haden]

Now That's totally changing the topic
What you said, which is not true at all, is that being a defensive minded coach is detrimental to being hired.

Couldnt be further from the truth. The current hiring trend shows that, many if not more, Defensive minded coaches are being hired as HC

Well, that did not age well. Looks like I AM FULL OF SHIT. Hahahaha

 

[JimY53]

I want Morris to stick around.

I was ambivalent. Had no problem if he stayed (but more abuse of his name by haters) but also wanted him to get a chance elsewhere. So I have no problem with him leaving. for a better opportunity


Always will be grateful. And the haters just cannot stand this photo.
l

 

[FrantikRam]

Confused ---- maybe I am not reading your comment right.

But interms of pressure --- 2021 was far better. This year a bit better than 2023 but 2023 Donald was gone for 5+ games.


number of blitzes
2021 - 9th
2022 - 13th
2023 - 15th

Pressures
2021 - 11th
2022 - 29th
2023 - 24th

But the DVOA is worse, defensive points allowed (takes out pick 6s, etc from offense and ST) are not better.

So, I am not seeing what you are saying on the numbers



Here we agree. He did well with less. But he did less with less, too. Defense was mostly worse but people are giving credit for having little money spent on defensive players outside Donald.

But the defense was not better, IMO. Pretty much the same as 2022 as a whole but not close to what 2022 was when Donald was there and not close to 2021, DVOA = 5th, defensive points allowed (takes out Stafford's pick 6s) was 5th.
In 2022 defensive points allowed was 14th. In 2023 is is 20th.

And the ring.... Morris's best results were 2021 and the first 11 weeks of 2022. But if you want to factor in the level of talent --- then you have a case.

I was JUST talking about the last two years (2022 and 2023). With the midseason addition of Von in 2021, I don't think it provides much of an accurate representation of our defense. It was essentially elite in the playoffs, but a little all over the place in the regular season, and half that time was played without Von.

Also, this is obviously just my opinion - but I don't think 2021 (regular season) or 2022 were particularly good coaching jobs by Raheem given the talent. Conversely I think he did outstanding this year.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Always will be grateful. And the haters just cannot stand this photo.
lView attachment 64084

If Morris says he has to have Rob Havenstein to anchor his O-Line and lead the Falcons' Locker-room; and Atlanta offers a high pick, Old-Not-Dead will be the happiest poster on this Forum.

 

[Memento]

Voted for preferring to get the third-round picks. Best of luck in Atlanta to him; it's going to be a building job.

Here's hoping that Kyle Pitts is available; I'd love an upgrade at tight end if Higbeast is out for a time.

 

[Merlin]

The ATL fans will love Raheem. Dude is a great interview with actual personality, so he'll be a nice face of the franchise after that slug fuck they had in there prior.

Lot of work to do there, but like I said early on this postseason that is an ideal owner for him. Patient and loaded. And that division sucks ball sack.

 

[JimY53]

I was JUST talking about the last two years (2022 and 2023). With the midseason addition of Von in 2021, I don't think it provides much of an accurate representation of our defense. It was essentially elite in the playoffs, but a little all over the place in the regular season, and half that time was played without Von.

Have to disagree. Have looked at this in tons of ways. What I have found is that things are not what they seemed. Not saying you at all, but there were things that were blown so far out of proportion in 2021 (and 2022) by some truly emotional people that they could never accept the truth.

What happened in 2021, 2022 was never nearly as bad as detractors made it seem (they tried to gaslight folks) and not as good as they think in 2023. That's my point.

But, not trying to change your mind. We just have different views.

 

[FrantikRam]

Have to disagree. Have looked at this in tons of ways. What I have found is that things are not what they seemed. Not saying you at all, but there were things that were blown so far out of proportion in 2021 (and 2022) by some truly emotional people that they could never accept the truth.

What happened in 2021, 2022 was never nearly as bad as detractors made it seem (they tried to gaslight folks) and not as good as they think in 2023. That's my point.

But, not trying to change your mind. We just have different views.

Yea for me it's not about looking at the numbers. It's the numbers relative to expectations.

I felt the defense should have been top five in almost every category in 2021 and 2022, but one of the worst in the NFL in 2023 based on the talent at his disposal.

 

[JimY53]

Yea for me it's not about looking at the numbers. It's the numbers relative to expectations.

I felt the defense should have been top five in almost every category in 2021 and 2022, but one of the worst in the NFL in 2023 based on the talent at his disposal.

I think numbers reflect what happened. I get your point. Just disagree with it.

No biggie.

Numbers just illustrated points without bias. People sometimes will claim things that are not true, so the numbers are only thing than can shed unbiased light on things.

For me ... the ring is the only thing that matters. Not the numbers. After that understanding what was going on in terms of the scheme and then the numbers that paint a picture.

I agree Morris did well this year. But it was not a surprise to me. Maybe to others. I am only saying that the defense was not as good as some people thing -- the people who only care about how deep the CBs play and not about results like winning.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think numbers reflect what happened. I get your point. Just disagree with it.

No biggie.

Numbers just illustrated points without bias. People sometimes will claim things that are not true, so the numbers are only thing than can shed unbiased light on things.

For me ... the ring is the only thing that matters. Not the numbers. After that understanding what was going on in terms of the scheme and then the numbers that paint a picture.

I agree Morris did well this year. But it was not a surprise to me. Maybe to others. I am only saying that the defense was not as good as some people thing -- the people who only care about how deep the CBs play and not about results like winning.

On the ring, we agree - I think his best coaching was in the playoffs that year

 

[XXXIVwin]

I was ambivalent. Had no problem if he stayed (but more abuse of his name by haters) but also wanted him to get a chance elsewhere. So I have no problem with him leaving. for a better opportunity


Always will be grateful. And the haters just cannot stand this photo.
lView attachment 64084

My only problem with this photo is it looks like he's wearing a tree as a hat

 

[HitStick]

So the comp picks are for 2025, right?

 

[Allen2McVay]

So the comp picks are for 2025, right?

Believe it's two #3s ... one in 2024 and the other in 2025