Playoff Officiating

[Raptorman]

I must ask , did the nfl change the rules on what is and what isn't a catch for the playoffs?

No. They still don't know.

 

[GoodBadUgly]

Also...it's freaking Marvel. Make a better argument if you want to accuse me of being a NE "honk".

Wow. You really ARE angry.

I was half-heartedly pointing out your failure to appreciate the way the CHEATriots are favored by the league is ironic given your Captain America avatar. Ironic in that the year this started, you know, the year of the "tuck rule", misplaced video tapes, reversed intentional grounding calls, non-calls on tackling Marshall Faulk out of the backfield, ad nauseam, all happened after 9/11. Rally the country! Patriotism rules!

Missed that, did ya?

 

[CGI_Ram]

Wow. You really ARE angry.

I was half-heartedly pointing out your failure to appreciate the way the CHEATriots are favored by the league is ironic given your Captain America avatar. Ironic in that the year this started, you know, the year of the "tuck rule", misplaced video tapes, reversed intentional grounding calls, non-calls on tackling Marshall Faulk out of the backfield, ad nauseam, all happened after 9/11. Rally the country! Patriotism rules!

Missed that, did ya?

Let’s keep the tone civil, please.

 

[Angry Ram]

Wow. You really ARE angry.

I was half-heartedly pointing out your failure to appreciate the way the CHEATriots are favored by the league is ironic given your Captain America avatar. Ironic in that the year this started, you know, the year of the "tuck rule", misplaced video tapes, reversed intentional grounding calls, non-calls on tackling Marshall Faulk out of the backfield, ad nauseam, all happened after 9/11. Rally the country! Patriotism rules!

Missed that, did ya?

I can't believe have to lay this out.

It's Marvel. I have other interests outside football. Captain America is my favorite hero. Deal with it. By your "logic" everyone posting about the tv show Vikings would be Minnesota fans.

Back on topic, I have addressed the "favored" argument by saying they are not, because I don't believe it. My evidence is the 10 year gap between their 3rd and 4th Super Bowl wins. Their recent Super Bowl wins were close and an opponent meltdown.

Why don't you explain to me and provide proof that they were favored in that 10 year gap? And consider that in that gap was a season where they were pegged to 19-0.

 

[Prime Time]

 

[kurtfaulk]

Balances out in the wash

for every team except the cheats. we all know what side of proceedings they're on.

.

 

[RedRam]

No one is arguing that they don't influence game.

I'm just saying that the refs didn't influence this outcome

Penalties influence a game, by design. That is their purpose. Hence the name penalty. The refs are the ones responsible for making the penalty calls. It's my understanding that the complaints are, for the most part, targeting the blown calls that are made that unnecessarily and negatively impact the game. I can't speak for anyone else but I know that I'd like that cleaned up! We, as fans, are now provided with far more information by way of replay than in the past. Decades ago, you had to go with the call in the field. There wasn't any other choice. That's not the current reality. Perhaps they should stop showing so much on TV. Maybe not show the game on TV at all. Well, geez..., I just don't see that happening so the NFL needs to figure out a way to fix the problems.

And oh BTW, I'm on the side of the fence that hates blaming the refs. I never coached that and never will. But, the refs do screw up and, unfortunately, we get to see it in HD ultra slow-mo. The refs don't have that advantage in real time but in today's technology driven world, that's a pretty lousy excuse. One that's equal to, if not worse than, blaming the refs for losing.

 

[Angry Ram]

Penalties influence a game, by design. That is their purpose. Hence the name penalty. The refs are the ones responsible for making the penalty calls. It's my understanding that the complaints are, for the most part, targeting the blown calls that are made that unnecessarily and negatively impact the game.

Well of course, 10 yard flag on a holding is influencing. And while I agree that bad calls are made, I don't think they are prevalent as what they are made out to be. One call that is (or isn't) made shouldn't cause an NFL team to suddenly cave. The Saints last night are prime examples of that. Hell didn't Robert Woods have a PF against Atlanta...and on the very next play Jared Goff threw a 3rd down conversion. That is overcoming.

But that's not the topic of discussion...it's that supposedly certain teams are "favored". And I think that's BS.

 

[tklongball]

Does anybody here really NOT think that the NFL is at least trying to get the best matchups for TV Ratings sake? They can only do so much, can't be too obvious about it, but wow would Pats/Vikings SB make for some great storylines, ehh??? Home team in the Superbowl and Mr Perfect going for another Superbowl? Seems pretty obvious every year in the playoffs.

 

[Ramfansince79]

The refs are bad, but there is no conspiracy and no direction from above.

It would have leaked out, too many people would have to know if the NFL was trying to help or hurt teams.

I'd like to agree with you, but it's just so blatant in favor of the Pats at critical times. Over and over and over again.

 

[Ramfansince79]

They might as well just sew some handles onto Calais Campbells jersey this weekend. The refs are going to let the pats o-line just clamp onto him

 

[jrry32]

The refs are bad, but there is no conspiracy and no direction from above.

It would have leaked out, too many people would have to know if the NFL was trying to help or hurt teams.

I don't know about a grand conspiracy, but it makes perfect sense why it wouldn't have leaked out. Point shaving is a crime.

I've said it all along...blaming refs is what fans of the losing team does.

Titans played terrible last night. That simple. Bad offense, bad defense.

That sequence right before the end of the first half...4th and 1. Take a time out before the snap (the last TO), then do a pull play with Derrick Henry...who effin bounced BACKWARDS and into a herd of NE defenders. That was the Titans entire night in a nutshell.

You HAVE to run the ball against NE and push their defense around and attack them in the middle of the field through the air. Titans did neither of those things.

Blaming refs...stahp. 35-7 and people blaming refs. C'mon now.

The Patriots were a better team, but that doesn't matter. That's irrelevant to this conversation. You can recognize terrible reffing without having to argue the outcome would change.

However, here are a few facts you're glossing over:
1. It was a 7-7 game when the Decker PI was called. Tennessee would have had 1st and 10 at their 40 without it. Due to it, Tennessee had to punt from deep in their territory, and NE drove down and scored to make it 14-7 after getting the ball back at the Tennessee 48.
2. Tennessee got a stop on NE deep in NE's territory with it being a 14-7 game when the false start was changed to offsides. NE would have had to punt, and Tennessee would have likely gotten the ball somewhere between their 25 and the 50. Due to the change, NE was handed a first down and drove down to make it a 21-7 game.

Without the terrible reffing in the first half, NE still likely wins. But the reality is that it would have been an entirely different game if the right calls were made. Tennessee might have gone into half leading, tied, or only down a few points. Instead, they went in down two TDs and were forced to abandon the running game altogether in the second half. That plays right into NE's hands.

 

[Prime Time]

The refs don't have that advantage in real time but in today's technology driven world, that's a pretty lousy excuse.

Then what are they looking at on the sidelines?

Aren't they also hooked up with the head of the refs in New York? Check out the articles below that cover some of these questions.

Look, without rules and refs to enforce them, the games would be chaotic. We also understand refs are human and make mistakes. However, with all the technology and experience these guys have we should expect a better performance than we've been getting lo these many years.

Players and coaches work hard during the offseason and season. The players endure a lot of pain to get to the playoffs. They shouldn't get screwed over by an idiotic call. It should be looked at closely and then reversed if necessary.

The penalties that bother me the most are "blocks to the back" and "holding calls" on punt and kickoff returns. If it's obvious then call it. If it's not then let them play. Another one is the defensive holding calls on pass plays that end up sometimes being 30 to 40 yard penalties. Make it 15 yards if it's flagrant.

Offensive holding could be called on most every play. But if they're called, it should be on both teams evenly. This is where the bias and conspiracy stuff gets triggered in the minds of some.

The NFL has a serious credibility problem and the refs who are not consistent with their penalty calling are part of the problem.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...f-officiating-will-make-all-replay-decisions/

NFL’s head of officiating will make all replay decisions
Posted by Charean Williams on July 14, 2017

The NFL has its message down pat: The instant replay “process” isn’t changing. That’s what league officials and the NFL’s head of officiating repeated Friday during the first day of their annual officiating clinic.

But what has changed is who makes replay decisions under the NFL’s new centralized system.

“The process hasn’t changed,” Alberto Riveron, the league’s senior vice president of officiating, said. “We’ve had the same process in place now for three years, so the only thing that’s changed about the process that instead of the final decision being with the referee on the field, it’s now with New York.

“Again, we go back to the process. The referee goes and speaks with the coach, stops the game, makes an announcement, consults with us in New York. In the meantime, while he’s had that conversation with the coach, we are gearing up in New York and showing up the best possible angles, and then the final decisions will be made in New York. But the consultation process, the way we look at the film, the plays we show him, the angles, that hasn’t changed one bit.”

Riveron said plans are for him to make every decision. However, Wayne Mackie, the league’s vice president of officiating evaluation and development, and Russell Yurk, the league’s vice president of instant replay and administration, will provide assistance, especially if multiple replays happen simultaneously.

“Ultimately, I’m making the decisions,” said Riveron, who was a veteran game official for nine seasons. “But that’s why, like before when it was Dean [Blandino] and myself in that room, now we’re going to have Wayne Mackie, Russell Yurk, and myself in the room, so if I’m tied up in a replay, somebody else will be looking at that, but ultimately I will be involved in every decision-making process.”

Riveron will communicate with the referee, who now will use a tablet on the sideline to view the play in question, before Riveron makes his decision. Previously, referees made replay decisions after consulting a monitor under a hood on the sideline. The new system mirrors that of the NHL and MLB.

“Obviously, I’ll have the same input that I’ve had in the past, but then the final decision will be made in New York,” referee Walt Coleman said. “That’s obviously to be consistent, so instead of 17 referees deciding stuff, the people in New York will be deciding. I think that it will help with consistency on the calls, because what I think is an incomplete pass might not necessarily be what another referee thinks. I think it’s good, and I think it helps for consistency and so forth. The process is pretty much the same other than where the final decision comes from.”

The move to centralized replay intends to streamline the process and quicken the pace of reaching a decision. Referees insist they have no problem with having the final decision taken out of their hands.

“I have never had a situation where New York and I differed on what we were going to do, so it will still be seamless,” referee Brad Allen said. “The fact that in most circumstances, we’re not physically going to be under a hood, we are going to be looking at a tablet, it’s a little different.

“We just don’t see it as an issue; we really don’t.”

Inside the NFL’s Replay Command Center

https://www.si.com/2014/11/11/inside-the-nfls-replay-command-center

COURTESY NFL

 

[Zaphod]

Believe what you want about game fixing. I'm pushing 70 and I might have been born at night, but not last night. When it comes to huge sums of money there is ALWAYS a criminal element trying to get a piece of it. Bribe's, palm greasing, you name it, its been tried (and done) in the NFL. How much of it goes on and to what extent we can debate forever. You can explain it away all you want, but my eyes aren't deceiving me. Officials are influencing game outcomes, and the Patriots are official favorites. They have been getting preferential treatment for years.

For truth brother. The variable that may make it seem so random to some is where that money is coming from, but don't think that influential element stupid either, especially as it pertains to bets. To go along with the expected collusion, people forget that there is always competition amongst that criminal element. It's an old cop saying, and it's so incredibly simple yet ridiculously effective, but dear god always follow the money.

Is it me, or is it just the best feeling in the world when the underdog wins anyway by accident or will?

 

[bubbaramfan]

Zaphod, you touch on a topic most fans don't know. NFL owners are major shareholders of Fantasy online gambling. The majority owners of Fanduel and DraftKing are NFL owners.
They spent over 200 Million dollars in advertising last year. That's a pretty hefty sum, and for it to pay off they must be hauling in 10 times that.

 

[Angry Ram]

Does anybody here really NOT think that the NFL is at least trying to get the best matchups for TV Ratings sake? They can only do so much, can't be too obvious about it, but wow would Pats/Vikings SB make for some great storylines, ehh??? Home team in the Superbowl and Mr Perfect going for another Superbowl? Seems pretty obvious every year in the playoffs.

No. Because what storyline did Atlanta have last year? They were just there.

Peyton Manning was supposed to have a storybook ending in 2012 when he signed with Denver. But it didn't happen that season or in 2013 and 2014. The coach was replaced in that time span But their 4th year they win it all. Why did it take 4 years for one the leagues best QBs and PR figures in history to end his HoF career?

The ultimate story line was NE going for 19-0. Eli threw a sure INT to Asante Samuel which would've been a pick-6 and thus ended the game. But Asante Samuel dropped it. Eli leads a COME FROM BEHIND VICTORY TD DRIVE to BEAT NE. If there was some "conspiracy" this whole situation would never happened.

The sequel came again, this time for more storylines as NE was supposed to "revenge" the Giants. "Oh you can't beat NE twice" they said. And yet this was more a of a beatdown that last time. And NE lost AGAIN.

And this year...the story line would be better for NE to take on Pittsburgh, but Jax threw a wrench into everything. And on the NFC side the best matchup would've been Falcons/Saints. Division rivals that hate each other, with history and the QBs and superstars to boot. But both teams fucked themselves.

Players and coaches work hard during the offseason and season. The players endure a lot of pain to get to the playoffs. They shouldn't get screwed over by an idiotic call. It should be looked at closely and then reversed if necessary.

They don't for the most part, though. I'll admit I made the thread regarding the Steelers catch/no catch thing against NE saying it was a crap call, but it ended up me being salty at the rule itself.

The penalties that bother me the most are "blocks to the back" and "holding calls" on punt and kickoff returns. If it's obvious then call it. If it's not then let them play. Another one is the defensive holding calls on pass plays that end up sometimes being 30 to 40 yard penalties. Make it 15 yards if it's flagrant.

Judgement, and in the Rams' case it didn't happen as much this year. It happened a lot when Tavon was doing his thing. Again that is a team problem, and one that Jeff Fisher teams are/were were largely criticized for. Sean McVay, whatever he did, cleaned it up and Pharoh Cooper ended up leading the league in return yards.

Also a defensive holding isn't a a 30 or 40 yard flag. It's 5 yards and auto first. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defensive-holding/

Offensive holding could be called on most every play. But if they're called, it should be on both teams evenly. This is where the bias and conspiracy stuff gets triggered in the minds of some.

Again though, for the most part they are. Case in point Sunday night, when the Vikings were driving they had a long TD run called back because of holding. Then the Saints committed a legit flag in the next play, along with a defensive holding. Either way, it's an auto first and the Vikings scored a TD anyway. To me, that tells me more about the Saints than the refs.

The NFL has a serious credibility problem and the refs who are not consistent with their penalty calling are part of the problem.

As an example this is what the ref saw, which is textbook PI. Back turned, not playing the ball. From the refs' view point it looks like Saints DB is pushing him down. While we know due to replay that Stefon Diggs was holding on to his arm. I would chalk this up to a ref mistake, not some "conspiracy" by the NFL.

Was it fair...probably not. Should it be reviewed, maybe. There are pros and cons. Because it's possible a call that shouldn't have been made be reversed AND vice versa. Players get away AND get caught with flags. That's part of the game. Not some "WWE-esque" fixed conspiracy. That's why I think teams and fans should follow what they preach "no excuses". Overcome. And the Saints all but did. The Titans got their ass kicked.

The majority owners of Fanduel and DraftKing are NFL owners.
They spent over 200 Million dollars in advertising last year. That's a pretty hefty sum, and for it to pay off they must be hauling in 10 times that.

No NFL owner also "owns" those. FanDuel was founded from a UK and Scottish company. Draft Kings has an agreement with Kraft Group, yes. Which was signed AFTER they won the Super Bowl (Seattle idiocy) and BEFORE they got BEAT by the Broncos in the AFC title game.

FanDuel has agreements with Ravens, Bills, Bengals, Bears, Browns, Lions, Packers, Texans, Colts, Jags, Jets, Eagles, Chargers, Bucs, Redskins.

Not exactly perennial playoff teams, with the exception of the Packers and the Ravens. (Jags only once after a decade). What's funny with this argument is that the Ravens actually BEAT NE to go to the Super Bowl in 2012.

And to top it off....these things have to do with fantasy football. And the most teams with the most relevant fantasy production players are NOT on NE. They reside in Pittsburgh, Atlanta, New Orleans, and now...the LA Rams.

So I fail to see where these large sum investments somehow contribute to your conspiracy theory.

 

[RedRam]

Then what are they looking at on the sidelines?

IDK, maybe they're checking restaurant reviews on Yelp for their post game meal...

It sure doesn't seem like they're looking at the same thing as the fans see on TV.

with all the technology and experience these guys have we should expect a better performance than we've been getting lo these many years.

That's part of my complaint with the officiating. It should be better. Especially considering the amount of quality information that is so readily available now.

They shouldn't get screwed over by an idiotic call. It should be looked at closely and then reversed if necessary.

Correct! They shouldn't get screwed over yet they still do and it's avoidable.

the defensive holding calls on pass plays that end up sometimes being 30 to 40 yard penalties. Make it 15 yards if it's flagrant.

I think you mean PI, but I get it. The thing is, if you change the PI rule, there's no chance the Vikings win the game against the Saints on the last play. The Saints call the same timeout, but rather than tell the defense no PI, they instruct them to be all over the receivers and force the refs to make a call.

The NFL has a serious credibility problem and the refs who are not consistent with their penalty calling are part of the problem.

Consistency... If consistency was a reality, that would totally negate most, if not all, bias claims. That is, without a doubt IMHO, the biggest issue between the fan's perspective of officiating and that of the NFL.

 

[RAMBUSH]

No. They still don't know.

It seemed different then regular season

 

[1maGoh]

I can't believe have to lay this out.

It's Marvel. I have other interests outside football. Captain America is my favorite hero. Deal with it. By your "logic" everyone posting about the tv show Vikings would be Minnesota fans.

Back on topic, I have addressed the "favored" argument by saying they are not, because I don't believe it. My evidence is the 10 year gap between their 3rd and 4th Super Bowl wins. Their recent Super Bowl wins were close and an opponent meltdown.

Why don't you explain to me and provide proof that they were favored in that 10 year gap? And consider that in that gap was a season where they were pegged to 19-0.

If you want to convince me that the Patriots aren't favored, you'll have to do better than a ten year gap between their third and fourth super bowls. They had 3 super bowls in close proximity then a gap shorter than some other teams between playoff appearances, then 2 more super bowl wins in relatively close proximity. More than anyone else in that time frame. Way more than you would expect out of a really really good team.

 

[Prime Time]

Also a defensive holding isn't a a 30 or 40 yard flag. It's 5 yards and auto first.

Correction: I should have written pass interference.