Playoff Officiating

[Angry Ram]

The contact occurred within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, where it’s legal. The defender made contact as well.

It was close. But like I said, let's say you are right and this was a call that shouldn't have been made.

Second, don’t mischaracterize my argument. Neither myself more anyone on this thread argued that the Titans lost because of that one call. But it did deny them a chance to maintain possession and establish momentum. That matters, particularly on the road and in the playoffs.

No, but let's not pretend the Titans didn't have plenty of other chances as well. At that point it was 7-7 early in the game. Their momentum was lost when Tennessee allowed NE to march it up and tie the game up.

And funny enough, refs reviewed a TD that James White had and called it BACK. And NE STILL scored at the end. That's not refs.

I sincerely hope one of your non-Rams teams gets totally screwed by the officials someday. You’ll probably still deny the reality in order to save face, but it won’t change the fact that your teams got screwed and their chances of winning were impacted by bad officiating. Call it just desserts.

I've moved on, just like I've moved on from blaming coordinators. I'm not gonna save face for anything. I'm telling you here and now...I ain't gonna blame officiating.

Also I like how you are implying I have many teams that I'm a fan of. It's only 3, bub. Texans are the third as of 2016 simply because location.

The paties outplayed the Titans. That much is true. But they also practically tripped over their dicks showing their love for the evil empire.

Bad calls can and do affect the outcomes of games. Not this game but it is utter ridiculousness to say that a team should have to play better to overcome bad calls. It's pretty natural that a ref is going to give a call based on what he thinks of the players involved. That tendency needs a counter. The refs and the NFL need to straighten this crap out.

I'm watching the Ain'ts/Viqueen game and they threw a flag on yet another phantom PI. The receiver simply fell down. That is a huge penalty that can GIVE a team points that they would not have EARNED. I really don't understand how calls like that should not be reviewable. It would have taken literally seconds for the guys in NY to reverse that call. No need to go under the hood. Everyone could see it. Just reverse it and move on. Those kinds of bad calls can completely change a game and affect how a team has to play. Put two or three of those in a game and you are screwed.

Because if they were reviewable it wouldn't take seconds. It would take minutes of real time, and there would be complaints of slowing the game down.

But the Saints held Minny to a FG instead of giving up a 2 TD lead. Then on the very next possession Drew Brees throws a pick. That in book far outweighs any so-called bad call. The Saints are playing pretty bad overall.

If the best football players in the world can't overcome small deficits i.e., tie scores, 10 points or less, etc that tells me more about the team rather then the ref.

 

[London59]

After watching this weekends games, and especially the Titans-Pats, am I the only one who thinks officials are instructed to influence games with calls, non-calls? It was obvious to me that the Patriots got lots of favorable calls, non-calls by refs. (been going on for many years) Steelers better have a good game plan because I don't think refs will be in their corner.

What say you?

You nailed it. Refs also seem to love themselves some Vikings.

 

[London59]

It was close. But like I said, let's say you are right and this was a call that shouldn't have been made.



No, but let's not pretend the Titans didn't have plenty of other chances as well. At that point it was 7-7 early in the game. Their momentum was lost when Tennessee allowed NE to march it up and tie the game up.

And funny enough, refs reviewed a TD that James White had and called it BACK. And NE STILL scored at the end. That's not refs.



I've moved on, just like I've moved on from blaming coordinators. I'm not gonna save face for anything. I'm telling you here and now...I ain't gonna blame officiating.

Also I like how you are implying I have many teams that I'm a fan of. It's only 3, bub. Texans are the third as of 2016 simply because location.



Because if they were reviewable it wouldn't take seconds. It would take minutes of real time, and there would be complaints of slowing the game down.

But the Saints held Minny to a FG instead of giving up a 2 TD lead. Then on the very next possession Drew Brees throws a pick. That in book far outweighs any so-called bad call. The Saints are playing pretty bad overall.

If the best football players in the world can't overcome small deficits i.e., tie scores, 10 points or less, etc that tells me more about the team rather then the ref.

I don’t blame refs for losses, just like I don’t blame one single player. That said, they influence games and they seem to influence certain teams more than others. Someone watch Gronkowski’s TD and tell me how they miss him lining up next to Brady and then going kind of in motion to the left and then he just plain as day goes two yds forward towards the line of scrimmage without stopping! How is that not illegal motion? How does a ref claim they don’t see it? Maybe they just forgot the rules? Those refs should be banned! It is a blatant refusal to either call the obvious, or they don’t know their own rule book!

 

[RamFan503]

Because if they were reviewable it wouldn't take seconds. It would take minutes of real time, and there would be complaints of slowing the game down.

But the Saints held Minny to a FG instead of giving up a 2 TD lead. Then on the very next possession Drew Brees throws a pick. That in book far outweighs any so-called bad call. The Saints are playing pretty bad overall.

If the best football players in the world can't overcome small deficits i.e., tie scores, 10 points or less, etc that tells me more about the team rather then the ref.

How timely. Did you just watch the crew with their officiating analyst say, "That's a 34 yard mistake. Those are very hard to overcome." This after Fouts and Buck talked about three bad PI calls just in this game.

And there is no reason for it to take minutes to review like some ball possession calls. Hell there is really no reason for most of those to take that long. Just because it does, doesn't mean they can't do it better and more efficient. They don't need to go through the pageantry of going under the hood and doing all that bullshit. In this case for example, the announcers saw it in real time as it happened. You can't tell me NY couldn't have replayed it real quick as they were lining up the next play and reversed it. At least on obvious or big penalties - they need to do better. If they throw a flag for a blow to the helmet and it clearly never happened, it should be immediately reversed. Hell - they conference on the field plenty long enough to have a flag picked up by review.

In short though. I'll take what Pereira - former head of officiating - says over what you are saying. No offense on that. But it seems that very few people have your take on this and that includes most of the analysts I've been hearing this year.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The refs are bad, but there is no conspiracy and no direction from above.

It would have leaked out, too many people would have to know if the NFL was trying to help or hurt teams.

I keep going back and forth on that. The NFL somehow managed to shut down spygate. That guy who filmed the Rams walk through has vanished. Why hasn’t anything leaked about why he shut up for good. They could have refs sign papers that forfeit pensions if they talk. And in the end the NFL will just deny, deny, deny. With no evidence who could prove it? If a ref says he fixed games by NFL order then the NFL discredits him, makes up some shit about a third party like a bookie paying him off.

The cheating via a few calls or non calls is subtle enough to get away with it.

I think the NFL is just like the NCAA. They prefer certain match ups to others. So they won’t make a fixed set of requirements as to how you get into the college playoff. Instead they maintain leeway by saying that a committee of people of impeccable character will decide. The human element makes it possible for manipulation. It is all about the money.

 

[thirteen28]

You nailed it. Refs also seem to love themselves some Vikings.

That was a terrible PI call.

 

[Angry Ram]

I don’t blame refs for losses, just like I don’t blame one single player. That said, they influence games and they seem to influence certain teams more than others. Someone watch Gronkowski’s TD and tell me how they miss him lining up next to Brady and then going kind of in motion to the left and then he just plain as day goes two yds forward towards the line of scrimmage without stopping! How is that not illegal motion? How does a ref claim they don’t see it? Maybe they just forgot the rules? Those refs should be banned! It is a blatant refusal to either call the obvious, or they don’t know their own rule book!

Because it's not. His TD starts at 1:28, and he clearly is set before the snap.

ARTICLE 8. ILLEGAL MOTION.
When the ball is snapped, one player who is lined up in the backfield may be in motion, provided that he is moving parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage. No player is permitted to be moving toward the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. All other players must be stationary in their positions.

If an eligible receiver who is on the line moves to another position on the line (not forward), he must reset prior to the snap. If he does not reset, it is Illegal Motion.

It is also Illegal Motion, if a player under or behind center goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

Penalty: For a player illegally in motion at the snap: Loss of five yards.

http://edge-operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2017-nfl-rulebook/#section-4-action-at-or-before-the-snap

How timely. Did you just watch the crew with their officiating analyst say, "That's a 34 yard mistake. Those are very hard to overcome." This after Fouts and Buck talked about three bad PI calls just in this game.

And there is no reason for it to take minutes to review like some ball possession calls. Hell there is really no reason for most of those to take that long. Just because it does, doesn't mean they can't do it better and more efficient. They don't need to go through the pageantry of going under the hood and doing all that bullcrap. In this case for example, the announcers saw it in real time as it happened. You can't tell me NY couldn't have replayed it real quick as they were lining up the next play and reversed it. At least on obvious or big penalties - they need to do better. If they throw a flag for a blow to the helmet and it clearly never happened, it should be immediately reversed. Hell - they conference on the field plenty long enough to have a flag picked up by review.

In short though. I'll take what Pereira - former head of officiating - says over what you are saying. No offense on that. But it seems that very few people have your take on this and that includes most of the analysts I've been hearing this year.

Dan Fouts calling the Jags/Steelers? I assuming you mean Troy. But for me, one graphic said it more that the announcers also brought up for the Saints offensive possessions...punt, punt, punt, INT, INT. Throw in a missed FG and that's tells me more than officiating.

Analysts have the luxury of seeing the replay multiple times and many different angles in slow mo. It would slow the game in in real time. It would take minutes (maybe a couple or three) between the initial review, calling down, resetting the ball, resetting the game and play clocks, etc. It would compound over the course of the game (assuming they make more than one per game).

I don't like NE, I don't want them to win, I don't like Rob Gronkowski, I'm just saying that the refs didn't influence this outcome and that there isn't some sort of conspiracy of handing NE wins.

I don't think there are very few people who share my view. I think I'm the only one with this view. For a league where teams and fans alike pound their chest and bellow "no excuses", complaining about refs I find so ironic.

 

[Ramstien]

While watching these NFL games my wife is constantly yelling on almost every play THAT'S HOLDING, to the point that it is annoying to me. I tell her it is only holding if the officials call holding and there is holding on every play.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Good post Elmgrove. That all got swept under the rug. Only one good reason why those tapes were not made public.

 

[RedRam]

If penalties do not influence the outcome of games, why then do coaches continually preach to their teams to not take penalties?

 

[RAMBUSH]

After watching this weekends games, and especially the Titans-Pats, am I the only one who thinks officials are instructed to influence games with calls, non-calls? It was obvious to me that the Patriots got lots of favorable calls, non-calls by refs. (been going on for many years) Steelers better have a good game plan because I don't think refs will be in their corner.

What say you?

I must ask , did the nfl change the rules on what is and what isn't a catch for the playoffs?

 

[thirteen28]

If penalties do not influence the outcome of games, why then do coaches continually preach to their teams to not take penalties?

RedRam wins.

:rimshot:

 

[RedRam]

RedRam wins.

I'd be winning if my NFC Championship tickets for next weekend at the Coliseum were valid for the game.

 

[RamFan503]

If penalties do not influence the outcome of games, why then do coaches continually preach to their teams to not take penalties?

And why even have officials? Y’know... to take it to the extreme argument.

Of course penalties affect the games. To what level they let them play also determines how teams play. It’s part of adjustments - true enough but at what point?

 

[Stump23]

Officiating.....funny, I didn't see anyone say the Titans totally benefitted from the sack/fumble on Mariota last week that was called back. Since when does a QB stop forward motion when he gets absolutely pasted by a rushing linebacker, loses the ball, yet they maintain possession? I think that missed call, along with the other "non-fumble" got Tripplette fired, or gave him the ability to ride off into the sunset before the axe came down.

Officiating blows and I agree that certain flags are not coincidence for their timing or effect of certain situations.

 

[Prime Time]

As much as I detest the Patriots organization, it's best to check the stats. Btw it's not just the amount of penalties that matters, it's when they're called and how for how many yards.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

The NFL must hate the Seahawks the most because they led the 2017 season with 148 penalties called against them(16 games). The Panthers were the least penalized with 85(17 games). The Rams had 112(17 games) while the Patriots had 99(17 games). It's interesting that the Rams were flagged 62 times at home while only 50 times on the road.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Officiating.....funny, I didn't see anyone say the Titans totally benefitted from the sack/fumble on Mariota last week that was called back.

everyone said it. check the threads from last week.

.

 

[Stump23]

everyone said it. check the threads from last week.

.

My point is, what's the difference? Titans prospered by poor officiating and suffered because of it. Balances out in the wash, unfortunately in this particular case. Overall---this theme's premise of the subjectivity of officiating will always be a hot topic. We can talk about every single week as there are games outcomes distinctly subject to a call/non call by substandard officiating.

 

[GoodBadUgly]

Yeah except you have zero evidence to back that. Explain the gap from 2004 to 2014 season. That's a decade of no Super Bowl victories for them. Their last 2 wins are due to opponents being dumbasses. NOT officiating.
...

This is your avatar:

I'm I really going to take you seriously that you're not a Cheatriot honk in that garb? All it's missing is their lame-ass helmet logo.

 

[Angry Ram]

If penalties do not influence the outcome of games, why then do coaches continually preach to their teams to not take penalties?

Because it's the rules. No one is arguing that they don't influence game. You commit a false start with a moving clock. Oh wait, that was your game winning drive. Oh hell there were 10 seconds left. SOL. That's not refs, that's your team's problem.

This was one of Jeff Fisher coached teams, no? Stupid penalties??? Bring in Sean McVay, cleans them up, refs aren't nearly as penalized and boom...big reason why the team is 11-5. And as a result...not many threads on how the refs somehow "screwed" the Rams this year.

What I'm not buying, not for one second, is this notion that the Patriots are favored...or that certain teams are favored. I mentioned before, a 10 year Super Bowl drought between 2004 and 2014 seasons prove that. Their last two Super Bowls they were either driven to the limit and benefited by their opponent being dumb.

Now last night you had the Saints have a call not go in their favor on the PI. Shit happens, you know??? What do they do, limit the Vikings to a field goal, only down 10 points.

And they came back. Not once, but twice! They had the lead! And what do they do?? Blow it.

Not because of zebras, but because of their defense. You know the only people complaining about the refs today are? Saints fans. Even so much as wondering why the go-ahead TD wasn't wiped out b/c there was a flag on Stefon Diggs for taking off his helmet, even though that's not the rule.

Everyone else is lauding on how great that game was.

This is your avatar:

I'm I really going to take you seriously that you're not a Cheatriot honk in that garb? All it's missing is their lame-ass helmet logo.

And I'm really going to take this post seriously? Guess you should've kept on reading the lines below this avatar. Captain RAmerica. Seems like you missed that.

Also...it's fucking Marvel. Make a better argument if you want to accuse me of being a NE "honk".