Playoff Officiating

[snackdaddy]

All I know is, refs have been letting DB's play more in the playoffs. That last PI call was questionable but not a blatant bad call. I've seen that called enough times in the regular season. When they've been letting them play more in other games but tighten it up when the patriots are involved, well, you're going to have people wonder even more if the pats are really getting more ref love than anyone else.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Like I said...he was...briefly.

I'm not gonna back off this, I will keep reverting back to the rule.

That's funny because the rule says at least a full second, not never. You love the rule, just not the enforcement of it. And the cheats already get the benefit of your understanding of the rules.

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[Angry Ram]

That's funny because the rule says at least a full second, not never. You love the rule, just not the enforcement of it. And the cheats already get the benefit of your understanding of the rules.

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It is also Illegal Motion, if a player under or behind center goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

Rob Gronkowski is not under or behind center. He's in the backfield.

Tom Brady is under center.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Rob Gronkowski is not under or behind center. He's in the backfield.

Tom Brady is under center.

He was when he went in motion. I don't understand why you keep arguing a blown call.

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[Angry Ram]

He was when he went in motion. I don't understand why you keep arguing a blown call.

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Because it's not blown.

If anything, he's behind the guard.

Good lord man, I know you are hell bent on this alleged favoritism but he never goes in a straight line towards center, never is behind/under center (because the QB never leaves), he stops briefly (I've acknowledged before not for a full second, not written in the rule).

 

[1maGoh]

He's NOT moving forward at the time of the snap. Watch the video again, he comes up, stops for a moment, and then runs his route the moment the ball is snapped.

I don't know that I would say he's obviously moving forward, but he sure as heck didn't come to a stop at all. And it could be argued, if one wanted to nit pick, that if he's bringing his left foot forward to bring it even with his other foot then that is moving forward. And he is doing that, which isn't something you can see in the still shots.

Rob Gronkowski is not under or behind center.

Actually, he started out behind, not under, the center and then went into motion. And that's exactly the situation the rule describes. He was behind the QB who was behind the center, making him "behind or under the center". So yes, they did technically get away with illegal motion based on the fact that he started behind the center, went into motion, and failed to come to a complete stop for one full second as the rule you quoted describes.

 

[Angry Ram]

I don't know that I would say he's obviously moving forward, but he sure as heck didn't come to a stop at all. And it could be argued, if one wanted to nit pick, that if he's bringing his left foot forward to bring it even with his other foot then that is moving forward. And he is doing that, which isn't something you can see in the still shots.

I can agree with this, when I say stop I said briefly because its obvious he when he got to the line, stopped for a split second, and then went on his route. And I back this up by looking at the video, because its clear he went full speed as the ball is snapped.

Actually, he started out behind, not under, the center and then went into motion. And that's exactly the situation the rule describes. He was behind the QB who was behind the center, making him "behind or under the center". So yes, they did technically get away with illegal motion based on the fact that he started behind the center, went into motion, and failed to come to a complete stop for one full second as the rule you quoted describes.

But it's a motion play, he's going from the back to a traditional TE/WR spot on the line. I said before, it's no different if a RB went to play a WR spot.

Also like I said before, I take these rules at face values. The player in motion is not under or behind center because the QB is.

Maybe NE "got away" with it, but I don't agree with that mindset. And I sure don't believe NE is favored, which is what the entire back and forth comes to.

 

[1maGoh]

I can agree with this, when I say stop I said briefly because its obvious he when he got to the line, stopped for a split second, and then went on his route. And I back this up by looking at the video, because its clear he went full speed as the ball is snapped.



But it's a motion play, he's going from the back to a traditional TE/WR spot on the line. I said before, it's no different if a RB went to play a WR spot.

Also like I said before, I take these rules at face values. The player in motion is not under or behind center because the QB is.

Maybe NE "got away" with it, but I don't believe they did. And I sure don't believe NE is favored, which is what the entire back and forth comes to.

I think that he did violate the role at face value.

He was behind center. He went in motion. He didn't stop for one full second. That's what the rule says, at face value. It seems that you're actually adding to the rule the statement "starts and stops his motion under or behind center".

All the rule says, at face value, is that the player must be behind or under center and go into motion. He fit both those requirements. There isn't anything else in there that would exempt him from the rule.

You seem to be saying that because he wasn't behind center after his motion when the ball is snapped, the rule doesn't apply, but that's adding words and intent to it that aren't there at face value.

 

[Angry Ram]

1. All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).

Key words: "At snap"

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers

ARTICLE 8. ILLEGAL MOTION.
When the ball is snapped, one player who is lined up in the backfield may be in motion, provided that he is moving parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage. No player is permitted to be moving toward the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped. All other players must be stationary in their positions.

If an eligible receiver who is on the line moves to another position on the line (not forward), he must reset prior to the snap. If he does not reset, it is Illegal Motion.

It is also Illegal Motion, if a player under or behind center goes in motion and fails to come to a complete stop for at least one full second prior to the snap.

He was behind center. He went in motion. He didn't stop for one full second. That's what the rule says, at face value. It seems that you're actually adding to the rule the statement "starts and stops his motion under or behind center".

Wait, a player under or behind center means QB, not skipping over the QB and going to a FB, RB, or TE in this case. The first paragraph permits that a player in the backfield can be in motion.The play was designed for him to be a FB role to a traditional WR/TE spot on the line.

I'm with you about the full second thing. He does slow down, stops briefly, and then proceeds onward.

All the rule says, at face value, is that the player must be behind or under center and go into motion. He fit both those requirements. There isn't anything else in there that would exempt him from the rule.

Tom Brady is right there though. And again in my previous sentence, his motion is permitted from the first paragraph in the rule

You seem to be saying that because he wasn't behind center after his motion when the ball is snapped, the rule doesn't apply, but that's adding words and intent to it that aren't there at face value.

No, I'm saying when the ball is snapped he is not in motion. He moves by the tackle before any snap. I'm also saying that going of paragraph one, he's playing a spot in the backfield, not behind or under center.

 

[thirteen28]

"The point is that we are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield...To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle" -- George Orwell

 

[Angry Ram]

No one has proved me wrong about the conspiracy theory that NE is favored. Aside from what they perceive.

"One problem with the focus on speculation is that it tends to promote the growth of the great intellectual cancer of our times: conspiracy theories." - Gary Weiss.

 

[-X-]

"One problem with the focus on speculation is that it tends to promote the growth of the great intellectual cancer of our times: conspiracy theories." - Gary Weiss.

 

[Angry Ram]

View attachment 23823

I'm gonna take that with a cryptic grain of salt.

I'll back out of this thread, bit I won't be changing my view on this officiating topic.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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haha, just had a look at the video again.

he's lined up behind brady, he's moving forward when the ball is snapped and he never gets set, he never stops.

3 strikes @Angry Ram

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[UKram]

We all gonna ignore the fact that jack should have a walk in touchdown on the strip fumble that was blown dead

 

[kurtfaulk]

We all gonna ignore the fact that jack should have a walk in touchdown on the strip fumble that was blown dead

What's funny is how they allowed the patriots rb last week to run in for a td which they called td after he clearly landed on his arse. When the cheats are on the receiving end they can't blow the play dead fast enough.

But it's all just a coincidence. These calls have a way of evening out.

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[GoodBadUgly]

What's funny is how they allowed the patriots rb last week to run in for a td which they called td after he clearly landed on his arse. When the cheats are on the receiving end they can't blow the play dead fast enough.

But it's all just a coincidence. These calls have a way of evening out.

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It has become so expected, it's no longer annoying, and no longer funny. It just is what it is. I counted over 10 plays that would have been called differently if the team swapped jerseys before the snap.

The killer was that TD run where everyone was quick to celebrate (included refs which were caught on camera!), when the only reason he scored was due to a blatant hold. NO WAY this doesn't get called if Pats were on D.

But yes, they even out!

Here's the thing with Pat penalties. The obvious infractions for and against are called (for the most part). It's the ones that could go either way that are clearly called for them, and only in KEY situations. I don't believe they achieved any 1st downs on their own on 3rd down plays, they were given them on penalties. The Jags were the least penalized team on D this year, but it ended up 10-1 in a game the Pats were losing and needed "help".

Oy.

 

[1maGoh]

Key words: "At snap"

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers





Wait, a player under or behind center means QB, not skipping over the QB and going to a FB, RB, or TE in this case. The first paragraph permits that a player in the backfield can be in motion.The play was designed for him to be a FB role to a traditional WR/TE spot on the line.

I'm with you about the full second thing. He does slow down, stops briefly, and then proceeds onward.




Tom Brady is right there though. And again in my previous sentence, his motion is permitted from the first paragraph in the rule



No, I'm saying when the ball is snapped he is not in motion. He moves by the tackle before any snap. I'm also saying that going of paragraph one, he's playing a spot in the backfield, not behind or under center.

Well, the rule doesn't say directly behind or immediately behind. It just says behind. We're back to face value versus how you have interpreted it.

They are in a line. Everyone in a line is behind the first person in line. It's just a matter of how far behind and how many other people they are also behind.

It also says "a player under or behind center" indicating by the language that it could be one of several. To indicate that only one player could be considered behind or under center, it should have said "the player behind or under center".

I'm not arguing about conspiracies, just your interpretation of this rule.

 

[London59]

Again, for the third time, it's not a violation of the rule. The rule clearly states the following five words at the start:

"WHEN THE BALL IS SNAPPED"

He is absolutely moving forward, but BEFORE the ball is snapped.

He never comes set and is moving forward, facing forward. I know what my eyes saw and it was as the ball was being snapped.

 

[London59]

Not true. He stops for a moment. Not a full second, but a split second. He's not continuously running forward, if he was he wouldn't have to push off his back foot to run his route full speed. If he was like you claim, it would be one smooth continuous motion...which does not occur in the video.

Its not a flag, no matter how much you want to believe it. The rule is not violated, period.

Uhhhh, when you are trotting and then explode into full speed you of course still push off your back foot. Laughable reach for an explanation of a still obvious penalty. Easier to simply say they just blew this call, but don’t think it was on purpose. Again moving forward, facing forward, never comes to a complete stop even as ball is snapped. Penalty!