Perhaps the real Todd Gurley has finally arrived

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Fair points but in week 1 case was abominable and that had a disastrous affect on the running game. His inability to make the whiners pay for having 9 in the box meant that they were in the backfield the whole game. Every ounce of talent in Gurley's body was needed for him to make positive yardage almost every time he touched the ball.

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Yeah, it was a bad game for sure. Bad across the board. I didn't understand the game plan during that game, and I saw zero adjustments (IMO) as it progressed. The defense couldn't control Carlos Hyde, the O-line was getting bullied by the 49ers front 4 (see below), the receivers were blanketed, and Keenum made some questionable decisions. All of which contributed to falling behind and allowing the 49ers to play to their strengths. It's what we're supposed to do to other teams. Not the other way around. But - one bad game doesn't not a failed season make.

 

[shaunpinney]

Yeah, it was a bad game for sure. Bad across the board. I didn't understand the game plan during that game, and I saw zero adjustments (IMO) as it progressed. The defense couldn't control Carlos Hyde, the O-line was getting bullied by the 49ers front 4 (see below), the receivers were blanketed, and Keenum made some questionable decisions. All of which contributed to falling behind and allowing the 49ers to play to their strengths. It's what we're supposed to do to other teams. Not the other way around. But - one bad game doesn't not a failed season make.

Yup - bad day at the office, lets just push that one under the carpet for now...

 

[Bruce2980]

Perhaps, but I (and @Memphis Ram) also showed how Gurley can get a ton of yards when the QB does nothing. I mean, it's a nice theory and all, that Keenum is holding Gurley back, but history doesn't really bear that out. Teams that allege that they can run the ball no matter what, usually run the ball no matter what. Seahawks, for example. Always at the top of the league in rushing yards and rushing attempts, and always at the bottom of the league in passing yards and pass attempts. Teams don't fear Wilson's arm. They crowd the box because they fear his legs AND their RB's. Keenum can't run like that, obviously, but the same principle applies. To get them out of the box, the line has to hold their blocks, the OC has to scheme receivers open, the receivers have to *get* open, and then Keenum has to make a play. It will get better when Goff gets in there, but don't expect a quick turn-around on how defenses play the Rams. Gurley will remain their focus.

The definition of an open receiver changes dramatically with the QBs accuracy and arm strength. Keenum's girly boy arm and inaccuracy does not allow him to throw into small and arguably even medium sized windows. Where as Goff has the arm strength and accuracy to throw deep and into small windows. I bet Wussel Wilson has a stronger arm than Keenum. And as far as Gurley running the ball, a lot of it has to do with the o-lines run blocking, we are not doing a good job of that, but it has steadily improved, although slowly from week one. When Eric the Ram was traded to the Colts, the Rams replaced him and still had a good running game, not because they had a great QB, but because they had a great o-line. The running game this year will get better regardless of QB play, but when a QB can get the Defense out of 8 and 9 man fronts who would argue that is not going to help Gurley get passed the LOS without getting hit?

 

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The definition of an open receiver changes dramatically with the QBs accuracy and arm strength. Keenum's girly boy arm and inaccuracy does not allow him to throw into small and arguably even medium sized windows. Where as Goff has the arm strength and accuracy to throw deep and into small windows.

In some cases, sure. But in other cases, no -- not at all. Here's some footage of Bradford having a bad day because the receivers couldn't get off of press or man coverage.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzqCDLIMdvU


There's nothing wrong with Bradford's arm, but he had under a 50% completion percentage, 1 TD, and 1 pick in that game. Not coincidentally, I made that video shortly after the game to answer some criticisms about Bradford's seeming inability to connect with his receivers and only hitting on 19 of his 39 passes. So, sometimes good coverage is just good coverage. And sometimes an OC needs to make in-game adjustments to counter what a defense is doing.

Keenum's girly-boy arm, eh? Okay then. Not only do I not care for pejorative terms when discussing Rams players, but this is also patently false.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z44GA8J84IM


Oh, you meant throwing into tight windows? Okay then.
Check the dime he drops between two defenders on the sideline throw to Cook, and the needle he threads towards the end.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whNplfU6IPw


Look, EVERYBODY knows that Goff is going to be the more talented passer, and that he has the stronger arm. Find me one poster who says that Goff should ride the pine for the next 10 years while Keenum holds down the fort. You obviously can't. So you're arguing with nobody. If, in the meantime, I suggest that there are other facets of the offense that need to start pulling their own weight, you can maybe find the grace to let me do that without stepping on the necks of current Rams starters in order to fanboy over the one not playing. Sound like a plan?

And as far as Gurley running the ball, a lot of it has to do with the o-lines run blocking, we are not doing a good job of that, but it has steadily improved, although slowly from week one.

I already know that, and provided GIFS to demonstrate it. Also provided a bit of analysis as to why it's the case in another thread.

The running game this year will get better regardless of QB play, but when a QB can get the Defense out of 8 and 9 man fronts who would argue that is not going to help Gurley get passed the LOS without getting hit?

Nobody's arguing that. So, I'm not sure why you brought it up. What I am arguing is that the success of the running game shouldn't be solely dependent upon the QB. Sure it helps when you have a dominant QB, but that's not always the case in the league, and it's never a catch-all solution. And I already spoke about why that is with relevant stats. It should get better without much assistance from the QB, because it had already *been* better without the assistance of the QB last year. Boras is a new coordinator, and I'd argue he can (and should) provide more assistance in that regard both with drawing up better blocking schemes, and finding more creative ways to get receivers running free in the intermediate zones.

 

[Bruce2980]

Oh, you meant throwing into tight windows? Okay then.
Check the dime he drops between two defenders on the sideline throw to Cook, and the needle he threads towards the end.

Yes, that was a very nice touch pass to Cook, as for the rest of those passes the WRs were wide open IMO and several nice examples of bucket passes. Thanks for sharing those.
As far as the stats that you mentioned, I'd be curios to know which players were on the o-line in the games and not just who the QB was. The quality of the defenses being played against is also a big factor. I know that there were a lot of injuries to the o-line last year and we had very good running in some games and not so good in others. Maybe Reynolds is a huge loss that has not been overcome yet this year?
Maybe I exaggerated about Keenum's arm strength, but I thought that was obvious. But I have never read or heard any opinion that Keenum has anything but an "average," or "average at best" arm strength. I am assuming that is when compared to NFL QBs.
As far as your argument that "a running games success shouldn't be solely dependent on a QB," well yes I have to agree with that wholeheartedly. There's also the quality of the RB, the O-line, the play calls, the defense, the downfield blocking of the WRs, TEs, the refs etc. And I am in no way insinuating that you didn't know that, or anything else I wrote.
I do find that I learn a lot more when I participate in discussions, so thanks for taking the time to give me your input. I have learned more about football in the last three months than I have in years since finding this forum.

 

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As far as the stats that you mentioned, I'd be curios to know which players were on the o-line in the games and not just who the QB was. The quality of the defenses being played against is also a big factor. I know that there were a lot of injuries to the o-line last year and we had very good running in some games and not so good in others. Maybe Reynolds is a huge loss that has not been overcome yet this year?

They were only percentages of deep ball throws by different QBs in the league in answer to the criticism that Keenum doesn't go deep. Everybody wants the QB to go 'vertical' all the time, but people would be surprised to know that it really doesn't happen that often over the course of a game or season - at best, 25-30% of throws from the majority of QBs are in the 11-40 yard range, so I showed Keenum's percentages and a couple of other high profile QBs. Most throws are from 0-10 yards as teams are constantly trying to neutralize a pass-rush with quick strikes. As it relates to O-line injuries and its effect on the running game, you and I are on the same page. That's been a problem with this team for a decade +. They don't seem to be playing (as Snead describes) like a basketball team right now either. They're part of the equation that will help set Gurley loose along with a more aggressive offensive game plan and better scheming. And of course better decisions by Keenum until Goff gets in and works his way through his own learning curve of mistakes. And there will be plenty.

Maybe I exaggerated about Keenum's arm strength, but I thought that was obvious. But I have never read or heard any opinion that Keenum has anything but an "average," or "average at best" arm strength. I am assuming that is when compared to NFL QBs.

Consider Peyton Manning's arm. Every time he throws the ball, it looks like it's filled with helium. I'm only talking about his velocity, and not his decision-making or his timing, or anything else. Yes, Keenum has an average arm, and I'd even go so far as to categorize it as good. If you can drop one in the bucket from 55 out, then you have a good arm. His passes may seem like 'floaters' or 'rainbows', but if they reach their target and are completed, then it really doesn't matter now does it. Not every QB has to be Brett Fav-ruh in that regard.

As far as your argument that "a running games success shouldn't be solely dependent on a QB," well yes I have to agree with that wholeheartedly. There's also the quality of the RB, the O-line, the play calls, the defense, the downfield blocking of the WRs, TEs, the refs etc.

Yup. And while we do have all of that covered (with the exception of who we play and the Jerome Boger effect), we're yet to see them all playing like a well-oiled machine consistently. If we're going to hang our hopes on a new QB being the answer to everything, then this team is doomed. It needs to be a team that can plug any half-way decent QB in and still have success. I expect big things from Goff, and I expect us to take the next step with him, but I really don't want our successes to rest on his ability to stay on the field and never melt down. We've seen enough of that over the past 5 years to know it's not the way.