Paris Under Attack

[Angry Ram]

Man, this is why I hate religion in general. No good can come from it. The sooner people realize this the better. This world is freaked. And there's nothing we can do. I just hope I'm long gone before WWlll. Because it's coming.

Well 2 things I disagree with it. Good CAN come from religion, as all religion basic teachings are love and compassion. But since the dawn of religon, there has always been people claiming their religion is the "right" one. It's people with this problem, not religon.

Second thing is, this is WW3, even if no one officially gives it that name. America, UK, now France against Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, North Korea. And where does Russia fall into this? IDK. The only difference is it's the people (and I use that term very loosely here) declaring war, not countries.

 

[IowaRam]

Having a grudge against a particular country for political reasons is one thing , walking into a public theatre and murdering 127 unarmed civilians is another

 

[Ramhusker]

Well 2 things I disagree with it. Good CAN come from religion, as all religion basic teachings are love and compassion. But since the dawn of religon, there has always been people claiming their religion is the "right" one. It's people with this problem, not religon.

Second thing is, this is WW3, even if no one officially gives it that name. America, UK, now France against Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, North Korea. And where does Russia fall into this? IDK. The only difference is it's the people (and I use that term very loosely here) declaring war, not countries.

But you left out maybe the biggest player of all, China.

 

[RamFan503]

Man, this is why I hate religion in general. No good can come from it. The sooner people realize this the better. This world is freaked. And there's nothing we can do. I just hope I'm long gone before WWlll. Because it's coming.

Religion in general is no more to blame for this than a knife is for a stabbing or a gun is for murder. These are bad people using religion as a tool to commit atrocities. The vast majority of religious peoples use their religion as a tool to help others.

 

[LesBaker]

Religion is what it is.
Some a-hole strapping on a bomb vest and going into a theatre or whatever has as much to do with religion as someone standing on the street corner thinking he is hearing Gods voice through a vending machine.
I grew up religious and took many positive things from it.
In this case the religion in question has the teachings everyone is familiar with in terms of killing infidels along with other negative teachings. Depending on ones perspective all religions have negative elements to them of course.
The funny thing is while religion or the causes of fringe elements of some religions cause many problems religion is also responsible for much good in the world. Like most things involving human beings it is not as black and white as you are saying.
There is an element in every religion that is closed minded, very close minded....this applies to the atheist movement as well.
So, take what enhances your life, leave the rest like a plague and associate with people who better the quality of ones life.

This religion has a problem, and the ones who follow it who aren't nutjobs need to be a bit more involved in reporting the ones who are nutjobs to authorities. All of the guys who were involved in the UK bombings were active in mosques and were loud about doing harm. Nobody said a thing.

Right now no other people who follow any other religion in the modern world are doing the hideous things that extremist Islamists are doing every day all over the world. This is a scourge on the planet.

Think about how much better life would be in so many areas of the world if these cowards didn't exist anymore. How much more peaceful and how much less fear there would be. They kill women for trying to learn to read and write for fucks sake.

It's true there are elements of each religion that are close minded. Are any of them seeing their fringe behave this way.

And one other thing........I always wonder when people say "well it's just like a tiny fraction of Muslims that are like this". Well guess what......there are millions upon millions of extremists around the world. It isn't like it's just a handful of people. In Afghanistan alone there are a few million at least that support the Taliban, maybe as many as 10 or 15 million for all we know.

@Angry Ram is 100% correct, this is WWIII. War has evolved as just as much as anything else has and just because there isn't a formal declaration of combat, and defined battlefields doesn't mean it isn't exactly what he just said it was. It is exactly 100% that.

 

[fearsomefour]

This religion has a problem, and the ones who follow it who aren't nutjobs need to be a bit more involved in reporting the ones who are nutjobs to authorities. All of the guys who were involved in the UK bombings were active in mosques and were loud about doing harm. Nobody said a thing.

Agree. I stated the same in an earlier post. Which got the ire up of some claiming I was saying "all"....which I never did. It should go without saying it is not all.
I agree, the culture and teachings of the religion has a serious problem.

Think about how much better life would be in so many areas of the world if these cowards didn't exist anymore. How much more peaceful and how much less fear there would be. They kill women for trying to learn to read and write for fucks sake.

Yes and no. Certainly better for the western world. The other issues in that region is the prevalence of dictators or monarchies. These suppress rights and limit thought/expression/religion/the press and nearly everything else. Personally, I think that is their problem and trying to force elections and democracy on people that have never experienced it is probably wasted effort. The problem is, when one of these dictators is removed it creates a power vacuum. As hideous as they were people like Saddam do quite a bit for stability in the region. There are all different levels of suppression of people nation to nation of course.

A quick word about our self imposed suppression of thoughts and ideas here. The PC police jump all over anyone who dares raise these questions. Nothing will change until things can be discussed like adults....meaning, an exchange of ideas. I can admit when I am wrong or given something to think about I haven't considered before. In fact, I rather enjoy that. I can disagree with a person and still respect them, happens all the time at work. What is frustrating to me is being told I am something I am not. I will give a quick example.
As part of my job we look at stats....all kinds of societal stats. Looking at some local stats that related to crime I commented that over 65% of arrests for crimes were of people with Hispanic last names. I mentioned this to someone who commented that was racist. I had to politely explain that, no, that is not racist. If I had said that people were more likely to commit crime BECAUSE they are of Hispanic decent, that is racist. Saying that 65% of criminal arrests were of people of Hispanic decent, that is a statement of fact.
Unfortunately society has reached a point where feelings hold more value than facts. There are whole segments of society that are just waiting to be offended by something or wanting to morally superior to others.
It is going to be hard to address any issue in society like what is happening in the world now if we can't discuss things. It is very difficult to discuss things when feelings override facts.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Most of the media isn't covering it but they have their political based reasons for it. But there are Americans that are very aware of it. Especially as the person at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave wants to let some of them in the USA.

I dunno... I watch the CBS Evening News just about every night and it's a story line just about every night.

I feel sorry for those people, men, women and children just trying to escape tyranny. Probably good people for the most part.

As far as the bigger picture? I fear for this generation.

Just too much hate coming from too many places... attacks on our country... attacks on foreign countries... attacks by Americans on Americans.

Hate comes in every color, creed and religion... and there's simply too much of it lately.

Big question is... why?

 

[Rmfnlt]

Religion in general is no more to blame for this than a knife is for a stabbing or a gun is for murder. These are bad people using religion as a tool to commit atrocities. The vast majority of religious peoples use their religion as a tool to help others.

+1,000!

 

[12intheBox]

Humanity is a product of evolution. Our emotions, our fears, our prejudices - the things that make us who we are come from thousands and thousands of years of trying to survive. We learned to be afraid of others because others were potentially dangerous to us. If it sometimes feels like xenophobia is ingrained in us, its because it is.

We, as people, have risen above other such phobias - recognizing them for what they are. Our intellect is capable of overcoming these raw - survival instincts. In fact, our intellect is capable of recognizing that these instincts are doing much more harm than good to us in 2015.

You may think that certain kinds of people are dangerous - they may think that your kind is dangerous. Truth is, both groups are right. We are dangerous, they are dangerous - everyone has plenty to fear and history continues to bear that out over and over again.

But someone has to step up and lead us out of the stone ages. Someone has to be a leader here - and the way to lead is not to crush the people who you are afraid of - as tempting as that may sound. That only perpetuates the cycle.

Pretend that you are a parent and your kids are fighting. How would you tell them to settle their differences? Duke it out? 2 enter, 1 leaves? Of course not. You would teach them that the reason that they are fighting is not a real reason to fight.

I know, I know - they started it. They won't listen. They are the ones .....

Being a leader sometimes mean being the first to extend the olive branch.

 

[LesBaker]

Humanity is a product of evolution. Our emotions, our fears, our prejudices - the things that make us who we are come from thousands and thousands of years of trying to survive. We learned to be afraid of others because others were potentially dangerous to us. If it sometimes feels like xenophobia is ingrained in us, its because it is.

We, as people, have risen above other such phobias - recognizing them for what they are. Our intellect is capable of overcoming these raw - survival instincts. In fact, our intellect is capable of recognizing that these instincts are doing much more harm than good to us in 2015.

You may think that certain kinds of people are dangerous - they may think that your kind is dangerous. Truth is, both groups are right. We are dangerous, they are dangerous - everyone has plenty to fear and history continues to bear that out over and over again.

But someone has to step up and lead us out of the stone ages. Someone has to be a leader here - and the way to lead is not to crush the people who you are afraid of - as tempting as that may sound. That only perpetuates the cycle.

Pretend that you are a parent and your kids are fighting. How would you tell them to settle their differences? Duke it out? 2 enter, 1 leaves? Of course not. You would teach them that the reason that they are fighting is not a real reason to fight.

I know, I know - they started it. They won't listen. They are the ones .....

Being a leader sometimes mean being the first to extend the olive branch.

Nope, you have to kill them off.

 

[12intheBox]

Nope, you have to kill them off.

and by 'them' you mean .......

 

[LesBaker]

and by 'them' you mean .......

Extremist Islamists that cannot be reasoned with, of course.

The choice is clear to them, they preach it out loud all the time. Convert to their fucked up and bastardized version of Islam or they will kill you. Understand that they want to have the entire world and its population converted to Islam and under complete control, not just Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, their goal is global control. That means negotiating isn't going to work because when your mantra is "convert them or kill them" you've already eliminated the hope of negotiating. I don't know how much you know about ISIS but this is the most extreme of the extreme. This is the group that kidnapped schoolgirls and raped them. And is still doing it.

ISIS is executing people for not converting to Islam almost daily , an olive branch isn't going to stop them. The only thing that will stop this kind of zealotry is death.

 

[12intheBox]

Extremist Islamists that cannot be reasoned with, of course.

The choice is clear to them, they preach it out loud all the time. Convert to their freaked up and bastardized version of Islam or they will kill you. Understand that they want to have the entire world and its population converted to Islam and under complete control, not just Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, their goal is global control. That means negotiating isn't going to work because when your mantra is "convert them or kill them" you've already eliminated the hope of negotiating. I don't know how much you know about ISIS but this is the most extreme of the extreme. This is the group that kidnapped schoolgirls and raped them. And is still doing it.

ISIS is executing people for not converting to Islam almost daily , an olive branch isn't going to stop them. The only thing that will stop this kind of zealotry is death.

I don't have a problem with most of that - but unfortunately, a wider brush is generally used to paint that picture.

We tend to forget the word 'extremist' a lot.

Mixing religion and politics is dangerous - always has been.

 

[LesBaker]

I don't have a problem with most of that - but unfortunately, a wider brush is generally used to paint that picture.

We tend to forget the word 'extremist' a lot.

Mixing religion and politics is dangerous - always has been.

I agree sometimes it is overlooked.

And I agree mixing politics and religion is a bad idea every single time. And this is worse because they are stealing a religion.

 

[12intheBox]

I agree sometimes it is overlooked.

And I agree mixing politics and religion is a bad idea every single time. And this is worse because they are stealing a religion.

Just to be sure before I let this one die - we are also going to kill all of the extremist Christians who want to end Islam altogether as well, aren't we?

 

[LesBaker]

Just to be sure before I let this one die - we are also going to kill all of the extremist Christians who want to end Islam altogether as well, aren't we?

As soon as they start doing what the Islamic extremists are doing in the name of their religion (or for any reason) yes we should. And by that I mean murder, rape, kidnapping and all the rest.

This is why I posted earlier that Islam has a problem in it's religion, within it's own house, and it isn't policing it very well at all. There are lots of religions and lots of religious fanatics. Only Islamist extremists are violently killing and taking over chunks of nations and setting up their little sick fucked up "societies". Only these cowards are trying to (literally) take over the world and impose their version of a religion upon everyone on the planet. Nobody else from any other religion is acting anywhere close to this way!

Islamic extremists are a global problem right now and everyone is going to have to pull together on this one.

This really is WW3, no joke..........

 

[RamzFanz]

how is factual information rhetoric?

When it's neither factual or complete but whittled down to support a point of view?

 

[RamzFanz]

It's pretty black and white to me. If a religion teaches oppression of anyone, women, children, sexual orientation, race, whatever, it should be scorned and ostracized by everyone publicly and vehemently. All of our institutions other than the government should expose and destroy them in the eyes of the people. REAL free speech at work.

If it teaches harming anyone, it should be abolished as a hate group with extreme prejudice. If a Mosque teaches or endorses harming anyone, it should be torn down and its leaders brought to justice. Same with a church. Same with a civic center. Free speech rights, like ALL rights, END where other people's rights begin. Teach and/or encourage someone to harm another, you lose your rights (not to include Username dickpunches).

Same with social groups with extreme ideologies. Fuck you. If a white supremacist group teaches harming another, SWAT time, empty building time, bulldozer time.

Black church teaches about the "white devil"? Step aside, this buildings coming down.

I'm SICK of people teaching hate and oppression. It's the 21st century god damn it! We are supposed to have flying cars, not suicide bombers, gay bashers, and fucking morons leading idiots!

God damn, people. Do we have to spend our short lives full of hate (not including against Seahawks fans)?!

 

[RamzFanz]

The Paris bombings are a symptom of being too tolerant of extremists. Something tells me they are waking up.

 

[Mojo Ram]

A quick word about our self imposed suppression of thoughts and ideas here. The PC police jump all over anyone who dares raise these questions. Nothing will change until things can be discussed like adults....meaning, an exchange of ideas. I can admit when I am wrong or given something to think about I haven't considered before. In fact, I rather enjoy that. I can disagree with a person and still respect them, happens all the time at work. What is frustrating to me is being told I am something I am not. I will give a quick example.
As part of my job we look at stats....all kinds of societal stats. Looking at some local stats that related to crime I commented that over 65% of arrests for crimes were of people with Hispanic last names. I mentioned this to someone who commented that was racist. I had to politely explain that, no, that is not racist. If I had said that people were more likely to commit crime BECAUSE they are of Hispanic decent, that is racist. Saying that 65% of criminal arrests were of people of Hispanic decent, that is a statement of fact.
Unfortunately society has reached a point where feelings hold more value than facts. There are whole segments of society that are just waiting to be offended by something or wanting to morally superior to others.
It is going to be hard to address any issue in society like what is happening in the world now if we can't discuss things. It is very difficult to discuss things when feelings override facts.

Bravo.
Just sayin.