Paris Under Attack

[OC--LeftCoast]

yeah, all the major powers are involved but america is a major player.

how is factual information rhetoric?

plus i think the truth hurts. sometimes you have to look at yourself in the mirror and ask some harsh realities about your country.

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Seriously, you're actually attempting to rationalize the insane?

 

[OldSchool]

Most of the media isn't covering it but they have their political based reasons for it. But there are Americans that are very aware of it. Especially as the person at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave wants to let some of them in the USA.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Seriously, you're actually attempting to rationalize the insane?

rationalise? where did you get that?

there was alot of finger pointing in this thread. i was just joining in.

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[RamFan503]

yeah, all the major powers are involved but america is a major player.

how is factual information rhetoric?

plus i think the truth hurts. sometimes you have to look at yourself in the mirror and ask some harsh realities about your country.

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Your essentially blaming this terrorist attack on the US is rhetoric. The truth hurts? Give me a break. Yeah - ISIS retaliated against the French and it is the fault of the US. The nut cases that did it would be wonderful upstanding citizens wanting nothing but a peaceful society if not for the US. Your factual information is only factual as far as what you want to accept or deem the truth. Save it.

We could go on and on about the atrocities committed around the world and try to assign blame or flawed policy. But sometimes it is just as simple as bad people doing bad things. These fucks weren't created by US policy and some short minded bullshit idea that they were is an affront to me as an American.

Each and every case of either flawed or successful policy has a great many twists and turns. This board is not the place to go discussing it. I love history and am a voracious student of it. The ease with which some want to assign blame for the world's woes is idiotic and simplistic.

 

[RamFan503]

there was alot of finger pointing in this thread. i was just joining in.

Finger pointing? You take discussion about the terrorist attack in France and point your finger at the US to lay blame - then defend it as fact. Yeah - I'd say you were rationalizing what the insane fucks did in France.

 

[ohiorams]

Perry Farrell's facebook page

As you may have all just heard- Eagles Of Death Metal were ambushed in a French Concert Hall. Terrorists attacked at their show- killing more than 100 innocent people. The body count is rising, turning the event into a total blood bath. Our buddy Josh Homme was not with them on this tour thank god. I recieved reports back that the band and crew was unharmed. Their soundman is an old pal from Venice Beach, Shawn London who did sound for Porno For Pyros and Big Audio Dynamite. All hell broke loose around him. For those who know Shawn- He is alright! Yes he made a run for it as people in front of him were getting mowed down- but he made it out alive and was able to contact his friends and family. Way to go Shawn! Get back to Venice and let's go for a relaxing surf at the Breakwater and celebrate life. To the families of the people who were harmed, our hearts go out to you. http://consequenceofsound.net/…/report-terrorists-take-hos…/

 

[kurtfaulk]

Your essentially blaming this terrorist attack on the US is rhetoric. The truth hurts? Give me a break. Yeah - ISIS retaliated against the French and it is the fault of the US. The nut cases that did it would be wonderful upstanding citizens wanting nothing but a peaceful society if not for the US. Your factual information is only factual as far as what you want to accept or deem the truth. Save it.

We could go on and on about the atrocities committed around the world and try to assign blame or flawed policy. But sometimes it is just as simple as bad people doing bad things. These fucks weren't created by US policy and some short minded bullcrap idea that they were is an affront to me as an American.

Each and every case of either flawed or successful policy has a great many twists and turns. This board is not the place to go discussing it. I love history and am a voracious student of it. The ease with which some want to assign blame for the world's woes is idiotic and simplistic.

Whatever man. If you don't think America funds terrorist organisations around the world if it helps their foreign policy there's nothing i can say to change your mind. Just know these nutjobs were ruled with an iron fist by saddam hussein. And that zero weapons of mass destruction were found in iraq. Everything has it's origins. To say America and it's allies, Australia included, didn't have a hand in creating the environment for a group like isis to flourish in is, I'm sorry to say, ignorant.

That'll be it from me. Unless you want to insult me some more.

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[Yamahopper]

It's not at all a phobia. Radical Islamists just senselessly killed more people and they are doing it daily all over the planet in cowardly fashion.

It's a serious issue that has to be addressed, and killing people that want only to kill people who don't want to adhere to their freaked up inaccurate interpretation of a religion is a sensible solution. You cannot change the mind of a militant extremist, it's a foolish waste of time to make any effort towards that.

History has proven that time and time again. You have to beat this type of thing by killing it off.

That's true but you can scramble it with a 5.56 Hollow point.

 

[bluecoconuts]

In fact, they're probably the only country that's doing crap right now, so why don't we join them?

We've been bombing the shit out of them for a while now, along with a lot of other states. One of the reason why France was targeted is because they've been one of the most active states involved in Syria. The U.S. just killed the ISIS member who's been beheading the people in videos, and our Special Operations have been operating in and around the area for over a year now. Recently it was revealed that they have taken on a more offensive role, but that was the case when they first arrived as well. We're among quite a few that have been actively striking ISIS, in fact we've dropped more bombs on ISIS in the past year that we have in the past

These fucks weren't created by US policy and some short minded bullcrap idea that they were is an affront to me as an American.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh, he's kind of correct... The Sons of Iraq were a group of Sunni fighters that opposed the U.S. during OIF, one of the largest really. responsible for the deaths of many Americans... Until the United States was able to convince them to stop attacking us and instead help patrol the cities, fight other insurgent groups, including ISI (which was mainly known as AQI then), which is now ISIS, and work for us.... For a price of course. One that most guys were pissed about.. One week its a firefight against these guys, the other it's a joint operation with them. We gave them quite a bit of money, as well as some training and weapons. As we began to leave, we left Iraq with the responsibility of paying them (around 2008), which of course they decided not to anymore..

Which put about 30-50,000 trained angry Sunni fighters without any means to support themselves anymore.. So they started joining ISI, which made ISI go from a mostly foreign insurgency group, to a mostly Iraqi insurgency group, with a power vacuum due to us taking out most of their leaders (hell, I've personally been part of that, which I'll be happy to discuss in private, but not in public)... They brought with them a lot of the money, weapons, and training that they got from us. ISI was all but wiped out due to the surge and a lot of offensive operations in Iraq. Again, I personally conducted some of these operations, and again I'd be happy to discuss in private, but not public.

ISIS, or at least the beginning of them started before the Iraq war, but by destabilizing the country we allowed them to grow, and by funding the Sons of Iraq and then letting them go without pay we allowed them to gain tens of thousands of new recruits pretty quickly.

I wont lay all blame on the U.S. of course, they've grown quite since then and we're obviously not completely responsible for the beast we look at today it's never black and white. However a lot of this is consequence of Iraq, and we probably wouldn't be facing them if not for that war.... There would be another threat though, there's always a threat.

If we're not slipping down into politics, I know this post is dancing on the line, so if anyone else wants to follow up, feel free to do so in PM's. I'm just going to comment on what I've seen personally and know to be true via first hand account.

 

[RamFan503]

Whatever man. If you don't think America funds terrorist organisations around the world if it helps their foreign policy there's nothing i can say to change your mind. Just know these nutjobs were ruled with an iron fist by saddam hussein. And that zero weapons of mass destruction were found in iraq. Everything has it's origins. To say America and it's allies, Australia included, didn't have a hand in creating the environment for a group like isis to flourish in is, I'm sorry to say, ignorant.

That'll be it from me. Unless you want to insult me some more.

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The singling out of the US was the main thing I had a problem with. That is how my ire got started. We can get into debates all night long about Saddam, his hand in this, and his continued ability to rule these factions even more than a couple of years after we ousted him. We just won't be doing it here.

And I apologize if you took my comments as insults but if you are going to throw out an off handed comment about the US causing all of this, you are likely going to get a less than complimentary comment response from me.

 

[RamFan503]

ISIS, or at least the beginning of them started before the Iraq war, but by destabilizing the country we allowed them to grow, and by funding the Sons of Iraq and then letting them go without pay we allowed them to gain tens of thousands of new recruits pretty quickly.

The bolded is one of my main points and what is too often overlooked by those looking to place blame at the US. Saddam was not going to be holding them down for much longer and wasn't even able to control them within his own country. Did we hasten their ability to grow their numbers? Possibly. Even likely. Were countries like Russia and France screwing around behind the scenes and making things worse? Absolutely. Do I like the idea we are even over there? Nope.

But as you said, we did not cause what happened in France. French policy can be looked at as helping to cause it but that is also BS in my book. Factions of many creeds have been boiling for hundreds and hundreds of years. They've come in many religions, beliefs. and areas of origin. And the one thing that holds true is that bad people do bad things. And when you try to stop that or work within it to try to affect change, you often become the target.

It's hard to come up with a government that hasn't screwed up when it comes to radical Islam. Is the world worse off for it? Pretty hard to say because none of us really know how far they would be along and how much of the world they would control right now if not for governments standing in their way.

 

[Angry Ram]

I'm sorry it happened to you and to others. If it came across that I was condemning an entire religion I'm sorry I didn't communicate well enough.

My ire is directed solely at the human garbage that did this and all of the other freaked up things.

France has allowed radical Islamists to flourish and they have to stop it as fast as possible or this will happen again. Here is a link to an article about it, and further down you can see all of the attacks they have had to deal with recently.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/europe/paris-attacks-threats/index.html

Yeah, I saw a similar story about an hour ago about Paris' demographics re: Muslims. Saying they are mostly poor, get discriminated, and turn extreme b/c of that.

I just wish we as Americans realize that judging or wanting to eliminate an entire system b/c of a group of evil is exactly what the terrorists are doing. Focus on the evil, please.

Also, Jordan is the only Middle-Eastern country that's doing something about ISIS. They're taking in innocent Syrian refugees when they can, they're bombing ISIS bases after one of their pilots was executed. In fact, they're probably the only country that's doing crap right now, so why don't we join them

You're not wrong. At all. But could you imagine the ignorance if that actually were to happen?

 

[RamFan503]

I just wish we as Americans realize that judging or wanting to eliminate an entire system b/c of a group of evil is exactly what the terrorists are doing. Focus on the evil, please.

Yep.

 

[kurtfaulk]

The singling out of the US was the main thing I had a problem with. That is how my ire got started. We can get into debates all night long about Saddam, his hand in this, and his continued ability to rule these factions even more than a couple of years after we ousted him. We just won't be doing it here.

And I apologize if you took my comments as insults but if you are going to throw out an off handed comment about the US causing all of this, you are likely going to get a less than complimentary comment response from me.

All cool man. I broke the golden rule, never talk about politics or religion on a sports forum.

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[Legatron4]

Man, this is why I hate religion in general. No good can come from it. The sooner people realize this the better. This world is fucked. And there's nothing we can do. I just hope I'm long gone before WWlll. Because it's coming.

 

[Mojo Ram]

You have to treat these terrorists like rabid dogs, put them down with extreme prejudice and without rule or warrant.

 

[fearsomefour]

All extremists need to be wiped off the face of the earth. I don't care if they're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheists, whatever. I don't care if they're conservative or liberal. I don't care if they're black, white, Asian, Hispanic, or whatever. Every extremist needs to die a horrible death and be gone from this earth.

LOL.
Memento with a great quote here. Be more extreme than all the extremists.

 

[fearsomefour]

Man, this is why I hate religion in general. No good can come from it. The sooner people realize this the better. This world is freaked. And there's nothing we can do. I just hope I'm long gone before WWlll. Because it's coming.

Religion is what it is.
Some a-hole strapping on a bomb vest and going into a theatre or whatever has as much to do with religion as someone standing on the street corner thinking he is hearing Gods voice through a vending machine.
I grew up religious and took many positive things from it.
In this case the religion in question has the teachings everyone is familiar with in terms of killing infidels along with other negative teachings. Depending on ones perspective all religions have negative elements to them of course.
The funny thing is while religion or the causes of fringe elements of some religions cause many problems religion is also responsible for much good in the world. Like most things involving human beings it is not as black and white as you are saying.
There is an element in every religion that is closed minded, very close minded....this applies to the atheist movement as well.
So, take what enhances your life, leave the rest like a plague and associate with people who better the quality of ones life.