One of my problems with the Manziel Idea

[Thordaddy]

IMO if you draft JM no matter what round you secure him, he becomes a Tebow like distraction,there are people who will clamor loudly for him and writers who will as well with Sams first in-completion.

Please God if we go QB somewhere in the first round let it be Bortles

 

[TheDYVKX]

If we draft Manziel, Bradford is almost certainly gone. Fisher will never have a QB controversy.

 

[Thordaddy]

If we draft Manziel, Bradford is almost certainly gone. Fisher will never have a QB controversy.

I'd agree JM if you draft him and expect him to sit,has to be behind Brady or Manning or Rogers or Breese

 

[Rambitious1]

I have two main problems with drafting JM in any round, especially a high round.

1.) You are using a pick that you could update your team with a talented/first year impact player.
2.) JM is just not a good QB prospect. I believe he's likely to fail.

JM is "at best" a project. He's nowhere near ready to start in the NFL.
So if we use a 1st round pick on ANOTHER project?!?!?.........wow is all I have to say about that.

 

[Warner4Prez]

I have two main problems with drafting JM in any round, especially a high round.

1.) You are using a pick that you could update your team with a talented/first year impact player.
2.) JM is just not a good QB prospect. I believe he's likely to fail.

JM is "at best" a project. He's nowhere near ready to start in the NFL.
So if we use a 1st round pick on ANOTHER project?!?!?.........wow is all I have to say about that.

That's a fair assessment and I believe there are plenty of people in your camp. However, if Fisher and Snead have scouts on payroll that believe this kid is the real deal, and they like what they see, then what can ya do? It's not like it's an accident that he's a 1st round prospect. He didn't somehow pull the wool over the eyes of the entire NFL, there are redeemable football playing abilities to go with the attitude and the other crap.
Do I like him more than Bradford, hell no. But did I also jump on board with the 'In Snead We Trust' mantra early on? Well, yeah I suppose so. Can't have it both ways.
If they select him, we'll have to assume that all parties involved did their homework and know what they're doing. A flopped pick for the sake of making a splash and surprising people does not equate to job security.

 

[Rambitious1]

That's a fair assessment and I believe there are plenty of people in your camp. However, if Fisher and Snead have scouts on payroll that believe this kid is the real deal, and they like what they see, then what can ya do? It's not like it's an accident that he's a 1st round prospect. He didn't somehow pull the wool over the eyes of the entire NFL, there are redeemable football playing abilities to go with the attitude and the other crap.
Do I like him more than Bradford, hell no. But did I also jump on board with the 'In Snead We Trust' mantra early on? Well, yeah I suppose so. Can't have it both ways.
If they select him, we'll have to assume that all parties involved did their homework and know what they're doing. A flopped pick for the sake of making a splash and surprising people does not equate to job security.

I understand your point.
But, just because JM 'may' be picked in the first round, does not mean he will be a success or quality QB.
See Jamarcus Russell and Tim Tebow.....for reference.

 

[dieterbrock]

I understand your point.
But, just because JM 'may' be picked in the first round, does not mean he will be a success or quality QB.
See Jamarcus Russell and Tim Tebow.....for reference.

And Jason Smith can be used for OT. Just sayin...
I'm not advocating Manziel, but I will say that no matter who the Rams draft at QB, particulalry if they pull trigger in 1st 3 rounds, will cause a QB controversy of sorts. All it takes is for an Aaron Murray to throw 3 td's in the 2nd half of a meaningless pre-season game and the masses will start to get ancy

 

[Pancake]

I don't think Fisher/Snead have such job security at this point that they could trade away the one decent QB on the roster in favor of a rookie . How many games would they lose this season if they did such a thing?

IMO the fans will call for their heads if they derail this team and deliver another loser.

 

[Alan]

Thordaddy with admirable restraint:
One reason why not.

Good job Thordaddy. I could never limit myself to just one reason.

 

[RmsLegends]

I would think the only way the project would work is the Rams really have not decided if they want to extend his contract and do want to go in the direction of Johnny, so ya sit Johnny, and begin to build a team around him and let Sam stay the QB and take the hits and all the negative impacts while ya build your team and have it ready made for the guy ya think will be your future QB. So in the meantime ya stick with the guy ya think will be serviceable, but begin to build your team around what ya think will be your future. If that is their mindset behind closed doors then to me it would make sense to draft Johnny and keep Sam on the roster while ya rebuild and groom.

 

[Thordaddy]

Like Al said it was only one reason,I don't see Manziel playing in the league as long from this day as Sam,build an o-line for Sam that protects as well as Brady's does and similar results would ensue ,give Manzeil that much time he'll try to run out the back side of the pocket and get caught for 20 yard losses.
Can't stand tall in the pocket if yer short.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Fisher doesn't like QB controversy, he also doesn't like to be forced to pick a QB (Young) and then pressured to play him. Which is why I know that he will not be picking JM.

 

[Rams and Gators]

One of my problems with picking Manziel:

When Sam is healthy he is a damn good QB. He has the potential to be even better if given Watkins/Matthews to work with.

Is that two reasons?

 

[Mojo Ram]

I would think the only way the project would work is the Rams really have not decided if they want to extend his contract and do want to go in the direction of Johnny, so ya sit Johnny, and begin to build a team around him and let Sam stay the QB and take the hits and all the negative impacts while ya build your team and have it ready made for the guy ya think will be your future QB. So in the meantime ya stick with the guy ya think will be serviceable, but begin to build your team around what ya think will be your future. If that is their mindset behind closed doors then to me it would make sense to draft Johnny and keep Sam on the roster while ya rebuild and groom.

Thats fine, but that theory/plan doesn't eliminate a QB controversy...of which the media and fans are responsible for, and obviously media and fans can't be eliminated from the reality of what would eventually happen.

 

[dieterbrock]

Fisher doesn't like QB controversy, he also doesn't like to be forced to pick a QB (Young) and then pressured to play him. Which is why I know that he will not be picking JM.

I don't disagree but i do think it bears mention that it's Fishers consistent interest in him that drives this whole crazy train.

 

[RmsLegends]

Like Al said it was only one reason,I don't see Manziel playing in the league as long from this day as Sam,build an o-line for Sam that protects as well as Brady's does and similar results would ensue ,give Manzeil that much time he'll try to run out the back side of the pocket and get caught for 20 yard losses.
Can't stand tall in the pocket if yer short.

Actually when ya break it down statistically Sam's line has not been as bad as we think as he was sacked 5.4%, 9.2%, 6.0% and 5.4% of the time for a avg of 6.4% of the time. Brady has avg being sacked 5.0% of the time. However though Arron Rodgers has been sacked 7.3% of the time and he as well as Joe Flacco 6.7% and Russell Wilson 8.8% and last year he was actual sacked 9.8% of the time, however these are 3 guys who have won Super Bowls in the last 4 years who spent more time on their backs than Sam has statistically. An speaking of Wilson he is less than 6 foot tall and was able to garner a ring. Then again as it has been said man looks on the outward, but God judges the heart. So how big is Johnny's heart I have no clue as I am not God by no means.

My thing is I keep reading post how we are so sure we will not take Johnny an I myself am not so sure when ya break down the bigger picture.

Our owner Stan, has been here the whole mess he helped get the Rams to St. Louey so he is well aware of the problems before and current. He had seen the futility until a former coach who had lost a Super Bowl was hired and he put up some bad years before he won it all. He I am sure was aware of Dick's past performance as a coach going 4-10 and 5-9 before he took the Eagles to the playoffs with a 9-7 record and few years later to the Super Bowl. So when Dick went 5-11 and 4-12 and then the playoffs and a Super Bowl it looked like what ya could expect from him.

So move ahead he sees the futility again this time he gets majority ownership of the club and hires a coach along the same lines one who has been to a Super Bowl prior and lost it has a record of how he progressed 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 and then playoffs and Super Bowl. Ya sign this guy who took 5 years to get it done to a 5 year contract and then watch what he does 7-8-1 and 7-9 so looks like to date ya get out of him what can be expected by his past performance.

In all the futility ya are also aware that the year ya won it all ya had a new QB step in, but ya had pieces around him when he did, ya had the proven Bruce, just brought in a running game with Faulk and had a great unproven but for sure potential in Holt ya had also done what ya could to improve your line and your defense was on the rise. However ya sure saw the formula and it worked.

So move ahead to now ya are in the process of getting the pieces ya bring in a vet who has not yet proven himself in Britt, who since it could be his last chance could be playing for his life, ya have the looks of a running game in Stacey and ya have yet unproven talent but the prospect of potential in a young receiving corp, ya signed a big dollar and big name to help booster the line in Long resigned Saffold. So from a owner's perspective the guy who pays the salaries takes the finacial chance ya see the same formula that won it for ya in place.

So after talking to your front office and coach and hearing their angles and putting in your input as ya are the one who has been here the whole time watched the futility the glory and then the futility. Ya come to a game plan.

The game plan could be as such as lets get the pieces in place to ensure the ability for the new QB to have day one. We have a serviceable QB who will keep our jobs safe as all we have to do is hover in the 7-9 to 97 range and we meet the expectations by virtue of past record. We lost our QB who was playing that kind of football before he went down 7-9 to 9-7 the back up came in and played that safe range football. So ya sign another guy if your QB goes down who should be able to keep ya in that safe range of expected record in Hill. So as long as ya do so as the coach ya know ya are free to implement what could be your down the road plans for a winning formula and team.

For the now ya state the present Sam is our QB which is true as that is what ya plan to do for the now have him play and keep ya in that safe record range he has shown he can do. Meanwhile ya draft a JM or Bridgewater or whoever and make plans to move on in a couple years when ya know that at that time ya are gonna be held to a higher standard.

Now do I know that such a scenario is in place? I have no clue, but I can see that Stan has been here throughout is doing the same sort of thing we did prior to winning it all in the hire of a coach with a background like the one who won it all for ya an I also know that Stan is not new to sports ownership so he will have less of a knee jerk reaction by virtue of the different sports teams he has owned and being here throughout the rise and decline.

So when I look at it from a bigger perspective as what a owner could see and be doing it does not become impossible for me to picture us drafting a QB in the first keeping our serviceable QB and moving on after his contract expires. If the serviceable QB rises I can begin talks of extension our new contract and see if I have any takers on my QB I drafted who I have showcased for two years in the preseason. If I get no takers and have to cut him it stings, but the sting is much less as I have a winning prgram and a sure future.

So will the Rams take a QB in the first I have no clue, but I don't think it is beyond he realm of possibility if the owner has any kind of thinking like I have speculated.

 

[RmsLegends]

Thats fine, but that theory/plan doesn't eliminate a QB controversy...of which the media and fans are responsible for, and obviously media and fans can't be eliminated from the reality of what would eventually happen.

Cause controversy from the fans and media is new to the Rams now? Seems we have been having it since 2004 when we moved on from our QB who took us to two SB's and went with Bulger and the controversy has not left from the fans or media since. So that controversy is not new reality it is just the norm that carries on from year after year as we pile up losing seasons.

 

[Thordaddy]

FWIW IF we draft a QB in the first Sams salary BECOMES A BURDEN , it's almost axiomatic that a first rnd QB starts before the midpoint

 

[RmsLegends]

One of my problems with picking Manziel:

When Sam is healthy he is a damn good QB. He has the potential to be even better if given Watkins/Matthews to work with.

Is that two reasons?

I have to disagree when healthy Sam has only shown he is a 7-9 QB not damn good. I also think that if we look at last year before he was injured he was 3-4 he had one win against a winning team, Clemmons came in and had two wins against teams that went two games deep into the playoffs. An Clemmons did so with the same team Sam had played with. So does he have skills, for sure he does, but what makes a QB damn good is his ability to take his skills and turn them into wins and so far he has not done as such.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I have to disagree when healthy Sam has only shown he is a 7-9 QB not damn good. I also think that if we look at last year before he was injured he was 3-4 he had one win against a winning team, Clemmons came in and had two wins against teams that went two games deep into the playoffs. An Clemmons did so with the same team Sam had played with. So does he have skills, for sure he does, but what makes a QB damn good is his ability to take his skills and turn them into wins and so far he has not done as such.

Let's rename the team The St. Louis Bradford's, then!