Olympics opening ceremonies

[Selassie I]

You don't know that. No one does, because the test wasn't released to the public, because it violates health privacy. Even the name of the test isn't public knowledge. All of this is simply speculation.

They did release that without any violations. Some parts were not released... but the Y chromosome part was released. Both of the olympic boxers in question have had multiple blood tests that reveal the Y chromosome.

And just the thought that it would be perfectly acceptable to hide the Y chromosome because it violates privacy is absurd.

Imane Khelif failed gender eligibility test due to chromosomes, says IBA

The controversial IBA appeared to clarify events at a hastily organised press conference today

www.independent.co.uk

 

[12intheBox]

Are you incapable of reading what others have posted? She isnt genetically female, or male
And because of folks like yourself who are more concerned with feelings and what people want to be considered being more important than what they are, like you said life isnt fair

Believe it or not, I am able to follow what you are saying - I just don’t necessarily believe everything someone posts or the sources they cite.

This girl was born - she had female sex organs. The doctor assigned her as a female - that is what is on her birth certificate. She has lived her entire life as a female. She has boxed as a female. She was in the last Olympics 4 years ago fighting as a female.

This isn’t about soneone’s feelings or how someone identifies. At some point - we draw lines. @Selassie I seems to want to draw that line at a blood test done that may or may not have shown a chromosomal anomaly. I get it - I don’t agree with it, but I get it.

State laws which have gotten so hot over the last decade in this area want to use the gender assigned at birth test.

 

[Angry Ram]

According to the article they have been deemed ineligible in the past.
Having “woman” on your passport does not prove that you are a woman.

Passports are one of the most authentic ID docs out there. And in a country where switching genders is illegal...why would Algeria even issue a passport for man trying to be female?

But that's besides the point. The only time they've been deemed ineligible was in 2023 by the Russian headed IBA. No previous issues prior. Again they aren't winning the top prize every year against other women so the advantage argument goes out the window.

Not with the Y CHROMOSOME... and "her" blood tests have confirmed that "she" has the Y CHROMOSOME.

A blood test from Russian headed IBA. And as provided earlier, it is possible, though yes rare, that a woman can have the Y chromosome but that doesn't make her a male in this case.

She' s not a man (born and raised in Algeria...illegal)

She's not trans (also Algeria...illegal)

She hasn't had an operation (again...Algeria illegal)

They've been tested before without any issues and now all of a sudden the Y shows up and it's case closed? Something seems fishy with that. Russian based IBA has had ties severed w/ IOC and the US...not sure i'd trust that one.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

They did release that without any violations. Some parts were not released... but the Y chromosome part was released. Both of the olympic boxers in question have had multiple blood tests that reveal the Y chromosome.

And just the thought that it would be perfectly acceptable to hide the Y chromosome because it violates privacy is absurd.

Imane Khelif failed gender eligibility test due to chromosomes, says IBA

The controversial IBA appeared to clarify events at a hastily organised press conference today

www.independent.co.uk

Not hide it from competition, simply hide it from the public. When an athlete fails a doping test, we don't get a breakdown of everything in their system. The public doesn't need to know that information. The competition committee does need to know, and an athelete can't hide it from them, but again, we the public have no rights to that information.

Here is the official statement from the IBA website itself. Its very clear that they are not allowed to share the results of the test with the public, only that the results made the boxers ineligible.

IBA clarifies the facts: the letter to the IOC regarding two ineligible boxers was sent and acknowledged

The International Boxing Association (IBA) has clarified the facts that led to the disqualification of two boxers, Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu-ting of Chinese Taipei. Imane Khelif has been participating in the IBA competitions since 2018, and Lin Yu-ting has competed since 2017. ...

www.iba.sport

 

[Corbin]

God damn I read this whole thread and have zero idea about anything lol

Only thing I can say is that opening ceremony was complete shit and haven't watched shit since then.

 

[Selassie I]

There must be a way to define male and female humans regardless of someone's personal feelings/beliefs.

It is scientifically proven that females do NOT have the Y chromosome. That cannot be misread or go undetected in a blood test. That IS the way to 100% decide the sex of an individual for qualifying to play in WOMEN'S sports. Women deserve to have their sports protected and restricted so that only women are allowed to compete. For anyone saying that there is no way to define what a woman is... I say you are just pretending to live in The Land Of Make Believe... it's fucking bs.

Are there super rare GENETIC DISORDERS that can cause a woman to have the Y chromosome?.... the answer is that there are extremely rare genetic disorders that have caused this. Point is... it's EXTREMELY RARE and when it does happen, the person does gain the added physical advantages that males receive during growth. As a result... an individual with this rare disorder needs to be disqualified from competing in WOMEN'S sports. Too fucking bad. Life isn't fair, but the spirit of sports and competition actually requires fairness.

There is another much more common disorder infecting a good number of people these days that is contributing to all of this new confusion regarding trying to figure out if a person is a male or female. That disorder is known as Recto-Cranial Inversion. There is a cure for that one though. The cure is simple... People need to pull their heads out of their asses because it's causing them to have a shitty outlook on everything in life.

 

[12intheBox]

There must be a way to define male and female humans regardless of someone's personal feelings/beliefs.

It is scientifically proven that females do NOT have the Y chromosome. That cannot be misread or go undetected in a blood test. That IS the way to 100% decide the sex of an individual for qualifying to play in WOMEN'S sports. Women deserve to have their sports protected and restricted so that only women are allowed to compete. For anyone saying that there is no way to define what a woman is... I say you are just pretending to live in The Land Of Make Believe... it's fucking bs.

Are there super rare GENETIC DISORDERS that can cause a woman to have the Y chromosome?.... the answer is that there are extremely rare genetic disorders that have caused this. Point is... it's EXTREMELY RARE and when it does happen, the person does gain the added physical advantages that males receive during growth. As a result... an individual with this rare disorder needs to be disqualified from competing in WOMEN'S sports. Too fucking bad. Life isn't fair, but the spirit of sports and competition actually requires fairness.

There is another much more common disorder infecting a good number of people these days that is contributing to all of this new confusion regarding trying to figure out if a person is a male or female. That disorder is known as Recto-Cranial Inversion. There is a cure for that one though. The cure is simple... People need to pull their heads out of their asses because it's causing them to have a shitty outlook on everything in life.

So - blood / genetic tests for all female athletes worldwide?

Only the ones who get “challenged”? And surely we don’t blindly accept the results - there has to be some appeal process right? We aren’t going to be ok if all of a sudden right before the Olympics Simone Biles or Katie Ledecky is disqualified because of some bullshit lab, right?

 

[XXXIVwin]

There must be a way to define male and female humans regardless of someone's personal feelings/beliefs.

It is scientifically proven that females do NOT have the Y chromosome.

As you know, I agree with you regarding the requirement that any person participating in Olympic-level female sports should not have a Y chromosome.

However, I don't agree with your concern about cranio-rectal inversion. My point being, I think a lot of this stuff is complicated and without easy "one size fits all" answers.

For example-- I've seen some videos lately of females who have xy chromosomes. One person had a completely functioning vagina, uterus, and ovaries, and was born with xy chromosomes. This person successfully carried to term 2 children. Would it not seem appropriate to refer to this xy person as female?

And for yet other people, they can have an interesting mix of genetic characteristics of both genders.

Granted, these people are very rare, but they do exist. I think the term "intersex" is biologically appropriate in certain rare and specific cases.

So to sum up, in my opinion:
In "real life", a lot of this gender stuff is complicated with (occasional but rare) shades of grey.
In elite level sports, ya gotta draw a definitive line somewhere as best you can. In my opinion, female sports participants should have both( a.) female genitalia and (b.) xx chromosomes.

 

[Selassie I]

As you know, I agree with you regarding the requirement that any person participating in Olympic-level female sports should not have a Y chromosome.

However, I don't agree with your concern about cranio-rectal inversion. My point being, I think a lot of this stuff is complicated and without easy "one size fits all" answers.

For example-- I've seen some videos lately of females who have xy chromosomes. One person had a completely functioning vagina, uterus, and ovaries, and was born with xy chromosomes. This person successfully carried to term 2 children. Would it not seem appropriate to refer to this xy person as female?

And for yet other people, they can have an interesting mix of genetic characteristics of both genders.

Granted, these people are very rare, but they do exist. I think the term "intersex" is biologically appropriate in certain rare and specific cases.

So to sum up, in my opinion:
In "real life", a lot of this gender stuff is complicated with (occasional but rare) shades of grey.
In elite level sports, ya gotta draw a definitive line somewhere as best you can. In my opinion, female sports participants should have both( a.) female genitalia and (b.) xx chromosomes.

LOL

Recto-Cranial Inversion. I know you picked up on my attempt at humor there.

Whoever owns the saying "exceptions are not the rule" is someone that keeps it real and uses true common sense.

I've stated what I believe in all of this and I respect the opinions of those who don't agree. I have no interest in changing the opinions of others... I'm just sharing my thoughts.

My sister was an All American D1 volleyball player. A savage. She continued to play on a traveling team after college and her team was one of the best. They always won or was at least in the finals of the tournaments. BTW... they named their team The Muffin Tops even though they are all in incredible physical shape to this day. The league or whatever it's called decided to allow a team of peeps who were born male but decided to change their identification to female to compete in this league of badass women. The worst part for me is that their team is from Hawaii. Anyway, this team now dominates that league in a very similar way that the Globe Trotters dominated the Washington Nationals. That is beyond ridiculous and sad to me. Common sense out da window. The women in the league just look at that team as a sideshow now and laugh about it somehow. Meanwhile it makes me sick.

Men should always protect women. I've said all I care to on this now.

I'm out.

 

[XXXIVwin]

LOL

Recto-Cranial Inversion. I know you picked up on my attempt at humor there.

Whoever owns the saying "exceptions are not the rule" is someone that keeps it real and uses true common sense.

I've stated what I believe in all of this and I respect the opinions of those who don't agree. I have no interest in changing the opinions of others... I'm just sharing my thoughts.

My sister was an All American D1 volleyball player. A savage. She continued to play on a traveling team after college and her team was one of the best. They always won or was at least in the finals of the tournaments. BTW... they named their team The Muffin Tops even though they are all in incredible physical shape to this day. The league or whatever it's called decided to allow a team of peeps who were born male but decided to change their identification to female to compete in this league of badass women. The worst part for me is that their team is from Hawaii. Anyway, this team now dominates that league in a very similar way that the Globe Trotters dominated the Washington Nationals. That is beyond ridiculous and sad to me. Common sense out da window. The women in the league just look at that team as a sideshow now and laugh about it somehow. Meanwhile it makes me sick.

Men should always protect women. I've said all I care to on this now.

I'm out.

Yeah, I agree with ya on not allowing persons who were born male to compete in women's sports.

 

[Angry Ram]

Who is Imane Khelif, the Algerian boxer at the centre of an Olympics gender storm?

After her opponent Angela Carini withdrew just 46 seconds into their round-of-16 fight claiming she had ‘never been hit so hard’, Imane Khelif has found herself at the centre of a gender storm. Emma Loffhagen reports

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[12intheBox]

Who is Imane Khelif, the Algerian boxer at the centre of an Olympics gender storm?

After her opponent Angela Carini withdrew just 46 seconds into their round-of-16 fight claiming she had ‘never been hit so hard’, Imane Khelif has found herself at the centre of a gender storm. Emma Loffhagen reports

uk.news.yahoo.com

View attachment 66628

And no, she is not the one in the back right with the mustache.

Levity aside - I think we all agree more than we disagree on this topic. None of us seems to want men or trans women playing in women's sports. I know there are people out there who think they should be included - but those people are wrong.

Where I think we differ is what is a workable solution or litmus test going forward. I think looking at a birth certificate is significantly more workable than having genetic testing done on all female athletes. I also think that there will be some anomalies where girls develop more masculine traits - their hormones develop differently and they become bigger, faster, stronger, etc - maybe even a chromosomal anomaly. Even in these cases, I think if you are born a girl, you get to play. In that sense - I don't think it is that much different than a guy who has some genetic anomaly that makes him 7'9 or whatever. As has been stated, life isn't always fair.

 

[Selassie I]

Birth Certificates and Passports as proof? That's the same as saying everything you read on the internet is true. Totally ridiculous.

Using a fool proof test... a blood test that verifies whether or not there is a Y chromosome present that removes all doubt is the way to do it properly. There are far too many liars and cheaters out there unfortunately. The only reason to not do this would be to make sure there are still ways to cheat. Period.

Arguing against that should be beyond telling concerning the person hoping to prevent a test that cannot be cheated on. There are way too many nieve people in this world and there are also way too many cheating liars as well. The lying cheaters always take advantage of the nieve lemmings and the lemmings thank them for it.

 

[Selassie I]

Imane Khelif Is Male According To Doctor's Testimony: Other Reports Confirm

Focusing on women and celebrating what makes them so unique, Evie Magazine helps women seek truth and find beauty...the kind that really matters.

www.eviemagazine.com

 

[Angry Ram]

Birth Certificates and Passports as proof?

Yes. And you're telling me that a country, in a region, where men have much more power than women, where trans and homosexuality are illegal, that Algeria made the one and only exception for this woman to switch genders? When she was born and had no idea that competitive sports were a pipe dream for women?

A Russian headed IBA not providing full results is the baseline? A Russian IBA that still does not provide will disclosure of the tests? A Russian IBA in which both IOC and US boxing severed ties with? That's what you're hanging your hat on?

She's a woman.

More and more articles are coming out how everyone got it WRONG. Some are even backtracking their words.

2024 Olympics boxing: Who is Imane Khelif? How the Algerian boxer became a symbol of the gender debate

Khelif's success in the 2024 Paris Olympics, where she will compete for gold on Friday, has overshadowed by a storm of misinformation

www.cbssports.com

2024 Olympics schedule August 9: Boxer Imane Khelif fights for gold medal

Algerian boxer Imane Khelif's tumultuous Paris Olympics run culminates Friday with a gold-medal bout, while gold medals will be awarded in track and field, beach volleyball, soccer and breaking as the 2024 Olympics begin to wind down.

apnews.com

Banned governing body that's fueling outcry on Olympic boxers has Russian ties and troubled history

The allegations that Olympic boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting failed an eligibility test for women's competition have been made by only the International Boxing Association.

apnews.com

Olympic boxer Imane Khelif calls for end to bullying after backlash over gender misconceptions

Olympic boxer Imane Khelif says the wave of hateful scrutiny she has faced over misconceptions about her gender “harms human dignity.”

apnews.com

Editor’s note - The Boston Globe

Editor's note

www.bostonglobe.com

Israel Adesanya walks back critique of controversial Olympic boxer Imane Khelif, apologizes for ‘speaking up’ — ‘I got it wrong’

Israel Adesanya recently chimed in on the controversy surrounding women’s boxing in the Olympics but now retracts his previous comments.

www.mmamania.com

The only ones that are clinging to the she's a "man" are either suddenly don't bother to look beyond the people on the side still beating that drum, and/or are suddenly putting a helluva lot of weight on the Russian IBA.


View: https://youtu.be/8D8uyMczPXw?si=AXSSU3jUPsNYvdP9

 

[Ramhusker]

And no, she is not the one in the back right with the mustache.

You bought made me spit out my cheap lawn care beer!

 

[12intheBox]

Birth Certificates and Passports as proof? That's the same as saying everything you read on the internet is true. Totally ridiculous.

Using a fool proof test... a blood test that verifies whether or not there is a Y chromosome present that removes all doubt is the way to do it properly. There are far too many liars and cheaters out there unfortunately. The only reason to not do this would be to make sure there are still ways to cheat. Period.

Arguing against that should be beyond telling concerning the person hoping to prevent a test that cannot be cheated on. There are way too many nieve people in this world and there are also way too many cheating liars as well. The lying cheaters always take advantage of the nieve lemmings and the lemmings thank them for it.

I think just about every father - sitting around the hospital in the hours after their son is born has the thought - if I just fudge a little now and make sure this birth certificate things goes right - someday, this kid could dominate women’s sports.

Has there ever been a case - ever - where someone actually pretended to be a biological woman to play in women’s sports? Not a movie - not some trans kid who fought to belong - but an actual deception where someone faked documents?

 

[Selassie I]

Imane Khelif Is Male According To Doctor's Testimony: Other Reports Confirm

Focusing on women and celebrating what makes them so unique, Evie Magazine helps women seek truth and find beauty...the kind that really matters.

www.eviemagazine.com

Ignoring the truth doesn't change it.

 

[Angry Ram]

Ignoring the truth doesn't change it.

Oh i saw it. A right wing conservative, the only side clinging to this narrative, magazine isn't truth. Especially taking Russian IBA word for it. And then i elected to ignore it.

The IBA Held a Press Conference About Boxing's Gender Controversy. It Was a Chaotic Mess

“Guys, you are wasting our time, my god!” a German reporter shouted.

time.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male

www.scientificamerican.com

Kinda interesting w/ trans and gender swapping being illegal in Algeria, in a male dominated part of the world she was assigned female.

Yet w/ the far right is the one still beating the Russian IBA blood test as gospel.

 

[RamFan503]

So - blood / genetic tests for all female athletes worldwide?

I believe they do already along with testing for banned substances, etc... I'm not sure why that is a problem. They test for blood doping, for growth hormones, weed, drugs, you name it. How do you suppose they found the Y chromosome? Lucky guess?