Offiicial Goodhell Watch Thread

[RAGRam]

opcorn:

 

[CodeMonkey]

what is the alternative?

WRT the Pats, the alternative SHOULD have been honesty/truth/forthrightness. It was a huge mistake to cover for the cheaters. The way it was handled makes the League at large every bit as culpable as the cheaters themselves. Instead of truth, Roger decided to own that mess.

 

[Prime Time]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...herspoon-also-suspected-patriots-of-cheating/

Ex-Panther Will Witherspoon also suspected Patriots of cheating
Posted by Michael David Smith on September 8, 2015

Add Will Witherspoon to the list of people who think the Patriots cheated before their Super Bowl win over the Panthers.

Although it hadn’t received as much attention as some of the other allegations against the Patriots, there seems to be a feeling among many in Carolina that New England taped the Panthers’ practices before Super Bowl XXXVIII. Witherspoon said in an interview on WFNZ 610 The Fan that he and his teammates suspected the Patriots of spying on them.

“It does make you wonder,” Witherspoon said. “We all sat there and said, ‘How do they know what we’re doing? This is ridiculous.’ . . . It can’t be possible. There’s no way they knew this was coming. But they did.”

But Witherspoon’s specific accusations — that the Patriots seemed like they knew what the Panthers were going to do — could just as easily be the result of good scouting and film study as cheating. Absent any actual evidence that the Patriots spied on the Panthers, it’s unfair to assume they spied just because their game plan against the Panthers was successful.

Unfortunately for the Patriots, they’ve now been busted by the NFL twice, in Spygate and in Deflategate. And that means every allegation of cheating will be given credence, whether there’s any evidence to go along with that allegation or not.

 

[69superbowl]

Depressing. The NFL and Cheatriots are so dirty. As usual, the Rams came out on the ass end. Broom, rug, sweep...

 

[Angry Ram]

I've never understood the hate for Goodell either. It baffles me.

Guys go out and beat their kids, get caught taking drugs, beat their wives, and ingest steroids, and its the commissioner who bears the brunt of it?

Here's a tip - stop committing felonies and you won't get suspended!

Or maybe they NFL should just stop penalizing everyone and let it be the Old West? Caught cheating? No big deal. Drugs and domestic violence? Que sera sera. Bounty-Gate, Spy-Gate, Inflate-Gate? It's catchers catch can, we don't want anyone sticking their nose into the cheating and protecting the shield!

Sorry, but there are always going to be some who think a punishment is too light, and some who think it is overly harsh. But someone has to mete out the justice, or the game becomes a joke. Commissioner is a thankless job that by its nature inspires hate and ridicule, but what is the alternative?

I tend to agree. Watch ever year during the draft Rog comes out to boos, then he goes "The 2015 NFL draft is open." Crowd: "YAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" He is a product of 32 owners, like the U.S. President he best influences public opinion and thus becomes the whipping boy. Changing rules, making new penalties, changing plays, etc it all stems from owners.

But here's the thing, why is he so inconsistent about suspensions? How does Ray Rice get suspended for what, 3 measly games when Le'Veon Bell gets suspended for the same amount? 2 completely different situations but same punishment. Tre freakin Watt is gone for 4 games, no appeal but Ray Rice? Nah, 2 games is good enough.

 

[Boston Ram]

For a lawyer, GoodHell sucks at law. Or maybe he's the best lawyer out there

Goodell is not a lawyer, which probably explains a lot.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Goodell should be fired. NOW. He was so worried about what the patriots cheating would do to the NFL's (and his buddy,Kraft) image, instead of doing his job,(and the right thing), he tried to sweep it under the rug. Had he investigated and punished the patriots, he would have gone down in history as a great commissioner. Now he will be known as brown-nosing lackey of an NFL owner, who could care less about the integrity of the game.

How's yours, and the NFL's image now Roger?

 

[-X-]

Goodell should be fired. NOW. He was so worried about what the patriots cheating would do to the NFL's (and his buddy,Kraft) image, instead of doing his job,(and the right thing), he tried to sweep it under the rug. Had he investigated and punished the patriots, he would have gone down in history as a great commissioner. Now he will be known as brown-nosing lackey of an NFL owner, who could care less about the integrity of the game.

How's yours, and the NFL's image now Roger?

True.

Had Goodell actually used all of his available resources to uncover exactly how deep that scandal ran, he probably would have ended up with much more respect in the long run. Being a weasel by trying to keep the heat off of the league had a reverse effect.

 

[Rambitious1]

Report: Patriots’ Spygate cheating was widespread over many years


Posted by Michael David Smith on September 8, 2015, 9:16 AM EDT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...gate-cheating-was-widespread-over-many-years/


Just days after Tom Brady’s Deflategate suspension was overturned, new attention is being given on the earlier Patriots cheating scandal, known as Spygate.

An ESPN Outside the Lines report, citing interviews with more than 90 sources around the NFL, says that the Spygate cheating lasted “at least 40 games over a period of several seasons from 2000 to 2007,” and that the league never fully investigated all the accusations against the team.

According to the report, the taping of opponents’ signals reached the point where the Patriots had diagrams of the stolen signals that they could use during games.

The report also says that other teams were much more upset about the Patriots’ cheating than they let on, because NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell convinced the rest of the league not to press the issue. Former Rams coach Mike Martz, whose team lost to the Patriots in Belichick’s first Super Bowl, said he was pressured by a “panicked” Goodell to issue a statement saying he was satisfied by the league’s investigation of the Patriots. Martz said he agreed to go along with Goodell’s request to issue a statement backing the league not because he was completely satisfied by the investigation, but because Goodell convinced Martz that a prolonged scandal could badly damage the league.

Anyone who thought the Deflategate ruling was going to end any talk of the Patriots cheating is sorely mistaken. Both Deflategate and Spygate are stories that will have legs.

Yep.

I've been hanging on for years, trying to survive the whirlwind of BS coming from GoodHELL's office.

 

[RamBill]

Martz drops Spygate bombshell in ESPN investigation
• By Ben Frederickson

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_5cccd6fb-4ee2-5ba1-9c20-2f4f936c8574.html

It's been a rough stretch for the NFL's public image, and former St. Louis Rams coach Mike Martz is the latest to pile on.

The 64-year-old came off the top rope from a cabin in Idaho.

Just when it seemed like Deflategate had finally gone flat, the Patriots' latest scandal managed to find new life AND link itself to another mess born of the team's all-around unethicalness. Deflategate, meet Spygate. Oh, boy.

ESPN on Tuesday published an exhaustive investigation that says the Patriots' Spygate scandal — you remember, the mess that leaked out when Bill Belichick's corner-cutting resulted in a Patriots' video assistant getting caught illegally filming the New York Jets during a week-one game in 2007 — went deeper than we thought.

So deep, ESPN reports, that league investigators discovered the Patriots kept a library of scouting material, opponents' play calls included. This stash reportedly held information gathered from the rogue recording of opponents' signals between 2000-2007. That's new information that Goodell probably didn't want us to know. While he handed out hefty fines and docked a draft pick, he reportedly ordered that the hard evidence from the library be destroyed.

The big-picture takeaway is this: Goodell tried to hammer the Patriots for Deflategate because the NFL owners who are also his bosses believed the Patriots got off relatively easy for Spygate.

But back to Martz, whose footnote in the 18-page report is going to stick in the craw of Rams' fans forever.

Think any of those nuked videos or shredded notes helped the Patriots beat the Rams 20-17 in Super Bowl XXXVI?

If you didn't already, you will probably ask yourself that every time you see a replay of Adam Vinatieri's game-winning field goal from 2002.

Sounds like Martz does the same.

"It was hard to swallow because I always felt something happened but I didn't know what it was and I couldn't prove it anyway," Martz told ESPN in July, during an interview in his summer cabin in the Idaho mountains. "Even to this day, I think something happened."

This isn't an unnamed source hinting at foul play. This is a former coach calling out the Patriots on the record. The NFL should be terrified of guys like Martz. He has nothing to lose.

Call it sour grapes if you want. Or, call it the truth from a guy who no longer has to cater to The Shield.

If the Patriots had Rams-specific intel in their now-empty library, we'll probably never know. But the report goes on to mention a more-concrete reason St. Louis should feel at least a little cheated.

Depending on whom you believe, the Patriots either did or did not film the Rams' Super Bowl walk-through before the big game.

Former Patriots videographer Matt Walsh claimed he and at least three other videographers watched the Rams' final practice, then reported back some valuable information, like the fact that Rams running back Marshall Faulk was returning kickoffs and the addition of new redzone plays. But Walsh can't produce hard evidence, something the Patriots cling to. Maybe it didn't make it out of the library.

But wait. There's also the hint of a cover-up.

Martz, who coached the Rams from 2000-05, also told ESPN that Goodell called him in 2008 and asked him to provide a statement saying he was satisfied with the league's look into Spygate. Arlen Specter, a senator from Pennsylvania, was calling for a congressional investigation. Martz, canned by the Rams in 2006, was the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers.

"He (Goodell) told me, 'The league doesn't need this. We're asking you to come out with a couple lines exonerating us and saying we did our due diligence,'" Martz told ESPN.

Martz agreed to release a statement through the 49ers.

"I was stunned at Matt Walsh’s allegation that he was on the sideline in New England Patriots apparel during our walk-thru," read one part. "I find that insulting, disturbing and a slap in the face to both our team security and NFL security, who both do outstanding jobs. I promise you that if he was on the sideline, he was not in New England Patriots apparel because he would have been identified."

Now that Martz is out of coaching, his tune has changed. He balked when ESPN reintroduced his statement from 2008.

"It shocked me," Martz told ESPN. "It appears embellished quite a bit — some lines I know I didn't write. Who changed it? I don't know."

Don't worry.

I'm sure the NFL will get to the bottom of it.

 

[Rambitious1]

Martz drops Spygate bombshell in ESPN investigation
• By Ben Frederickson

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_5cccd6fb-4ee2-5ba1-9c20-2f4f936c8574.html

It's been a rough stretch for the NFL's public image, and former St. Louis Rams coach Mike Martz is the latest to pile on.

The 64-year-old came off the top rope from a cabin in Idaho.

Just when it seemed like Deflategate had finally gone flat, the Patriots' latest scandal managed to find new life AND link itself to another mess born of the team's all-around unethicalness. Deflategate, meet Spygate. Oh, boy.

ESPN on Tuesday published an exhaustive investigation that says the Patriots' Spygate scandal — you remember, the mess that leaked out when Bill Belichick's corner-cutting resulted in a Patriots' video assistant getting caught illegally filming the New York Jets during a week-one game in 2007 — went deeper than we thought.

So deep, ESPN reports, that league investigators discovered the Patriots kept a library of scouting material, opponents' play calls included. This stash reportedly held information gathered from the rogue recording of opponents' signals between 2000-2007. That's new information that Goodell probably didn't want us to know. While he handed out hefty fines and docked a draft pick, he reportedly ordered that the hard evidence from the library be destroyed.

The big-picture takeaway is this: Goodell tried to hammer the Patriots for Deflategate because the NFL owners who are also his bosses believed the Patriots got off relatively easy for Spygate.

But back to Martz, whose footnote in the 18-page report is going to stick in the craw of Rams' fans forever.

Think any of those nuked videos or shredded notes helped the Patriots beat the Rams 20-17 in Super Bowl XXXVI?

If you didn't already, you will probably ask yourself that every time you see a replay of Adam Vinatieri's game-winning field goal from 2002.

Sounds like Martz does the same.

"It was hard to swallow because I always felt something happened but I didn't know what it was and I couldn't prove it anyway," Martz told ESPN in July, during an interview in his summer cabin in the Idaho mountains. "Even to this day, I think something happened."

This isn't an unnamed source hinting at foul play. This is a former coach calling out the Patriots on the record. The NFL should be terrified of guys like Martz. He has nothing to lose.

Call it sour grapes if you want. Or, call it the truth from a guy who no longer has to cater to The Shield.

If the Patriots had Rams-specific intel in their now-empty library, we'll probably never know. But the report goes on to mention a more-concrete reason St. Louis should feel at least a little cheated.

Depending on whom you believe, the Patriots either did or did not film the Rams' Super Bowl walk-through before the big game.

Former Patriots videographer Matt Walsh claimed he and at least three other videographers watched the Rams' final practice, then reported back some valuable information, like the fact that Rams running back Marshall Faulk was returning kickoffs and the addition of new redzone plays. But Walsh can't produce hard evidence, something the Patriots cling to. Maybe it didn't make it out of the library.

But wait. There's also the hint of a cover-up.

Martz, who coached the Rams from 2000-05, also told ESPN that Goodell called him in 2008 and asked him to provide a statement saying he was satisfied with the league's look into Spygate. Arlen Specter, a senator from Pennsylvania, was calling for a congressional investigation. Martz, canned by the Rams in 2006, was the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers.

"He (Goodell) told me, 'The league doesn't need this. We're asking you to come out with a couple lines exonerating us and saying we did our due diligence,'" Martz told ESPN.

Martz agreed to release a statement through the 49ers.

"I was stunned at Matt Walsh’s allegation that he was on the sideline in New England Patriots apparel during our walk-thru," read one part. "I find that insulting, disturbing and a slap in the face to both our team security and NFL security, who both do outstanding jobs. I promise you that if he was on the sideline, he was not in New England Patriots apparel because he would have been identified."

Now that Martz is out of coaching, his tune has changed. He balked when ESPN reintroduced his statement from 2008.

"It shocked me," Martz told ESPN. "It appears embellished quite a bit — some lines I know I didn't write. Who changed it? I don't know."

Don't worry.

I'm sure the NFL will get to the bottom of it.

No doubt about it, the NFL will get to the bottom of it!

 

[Mackeyser]

No way the NFL PR machine gets out of this mess. The owners now must save themselves and their money-making machine.

Goodhell is out.
Kraft is out. (Team will be sold)
Patriot F.O. is out.
Patriots Coaching staff is out.

And Mike Martz is now even a bigger Hero to me.

Just one huge looming question remains... Who at Disney (ESPN's owner) green-lit this story, and why?

Couldn't disagree more. I'd love to see real change, but the owners judge him MOST on the MONEY he makes for them and by that standard alone, he's golden.

Kraft isn't even close to out.

Goodell at worst will be seen as "rebuked" by having his duties "reorganized" and lose the control he currently has.

Patriot F.O. won't change.

Belicheck is protected by the current verdicts. People KNEW the mob was guilty of all sorts of stuff, but PROVING it was damned near impossible. And because Goodell also has to contend with the CBA and isn't in a strict legal arena and behaved stupidly (destroyed evidence) the first time around, he made it incredibly difficult to prosecute him going forward. So, while Belicheck's LEGACY may be tarnished, there's not FREAK ALL anyone's going to do to him. Because... lawsuit.

So, no. Some article that validates what we all knew isn't going to change anything.

The NFL may have a massive PR issue, but they're bound by their own really crappy rules. As Belicheck noted in taking advantage of the NFL, they are "lazy and inattentive", I think was the quote. Reactive would have worked.

As for who green lit the story...well, I agree that a story THAT big was READY for print IF Brady won. I would agree that if the NFL won, I really doubt that we ever see this story. Ever.

It could just be "the media" because the media will tear ANYONE down who thinks they are too big to be held to account. And Brady, by destroying his phone and retreating behind PR men and lawyers and fans clearly seems to feel that way. He's not a guy that would fit in in a bar in Southie. Gronk? He would...but even though he's about as sharp as bag of marbles, he doesn't strike me as someone who ever tries to be something he's not.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who green lit the story, be it the editors at ESPN or corporate types at Disney. I could see it making a difference if ESPN killed a story to protect Monday Night Football, but this creates tension and goes against direct economic incentives.

Beyond ratings, I dunno that much of anything changes. Well, we'll all talk about it.

I hope we get some really good memes...

 

[Mackeyser]

Goodell is not a lawyer, which probably explains a lot.

You're right! I dunno where I got it, but I thought for years that he'd been their corporate counsel prior to being their COO, then Commish.

Nope. Admin and PR intern, then worked his way up through the ranks at the NFL offices. Degree in Econ.

Learn something new every day.

Just means that the sleazy corporate lawyer crap was advice from someone else. The guy who just left, maybe?

 

[Stranger]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who green lit the story, be it the editors at ESPN or corporate types at Disney. I could see it making a difference if ESPN killed a story to protect Monday Night Football, but this creates tension and goes against direct economic incentives.

It does make a difference, because it's not about the story but about the agenda of those who green-lit the story. The story is just a vehicle, a means to an end. Hence, this story tells me that:

1) some very powerful interests are at play here;
2) the goal is probably one that includes, at a minimum, the departure of Goodhell.
3) Congress could get involved (again), and if that happens, we'll see the major kind of changes I'm predicting.

 

[Mackeyser]

The ONLY thing that doesn't make any sense here is this...

That the cheating of the Pats has and will basically go acknowledged and relatively unpunished...

And Pete Rose still isn't in the Hall of Fame. And this is AFTER the steroid era, mind you and AFTER they reviewed Rose's rosters and showed zero changes that showed betting affected his managing (and he always bet on himself to win).

Different sports, but you get the idea.

So, you can bet on yourself to win... and you're a pariah, because back then, even broaching the gambling rule was a de facto "ultimate sin".

Nowadays... fugedaboudit.

The ONLY reason the Pats keep cheating?

Because WE, the fans LET THEM.

Do we stop watching? No.

Do we protest the way we would if a team all of a sudden refused to allow black athletes on the field? No.

Do we stop buying merchandise? No.

So, we've given the powers that be ZERO incentive to enforce the rules.

Integrity of the game? Goodell only cares about that with respect to the integrity of the 32 wallets he's entrusted to protect. If he cared, truly cared about the integrity of the game, he'd have investigated the Spygate deal thoroughly and with integrity. Then again, he was a corporate guy who'd only really ever known the league office and his mantra is "protect the shield". Lots of wiggle room there...

Congress isn't going to get involved because they can barely name a post office these days.

I can't stand Goodell (and the name calling isn't terribly mature). Loathe is a pretty apt word for not knowing a guy personally. But to think that a guy who's been steward under who's watch more than doubled the league's value...well, don't think the league is going to just cast him aside. Stadiums used to be a routine $300M issue. Now, football stadiums are a $1B issue. Not baseball. Not soccer. Not basketball. And how that affects a franchise's value is huge. Don't think the owners aren't mindful of that.

Powerful interests may be at play, but I think you have it all wrong.

 

[RamFan503]

LOL yes........

This is funny to me, how people who really DON'T understand what is happening blame Goodell for SO many things.

It's comical how completely clueless so many fans are about how the nnion, the league and the CBA work. And it's amazing how the league and the commissioner get crap on for doing things they are legally bound to do because they agreed to it WITH the union, meanwhile the union never gets touched.

For instance beating your wife or girlfriend. In or out of an elevator. It's a suspension for TWO GAMES because that's what the union wanted. Yet Goodell gets crap for giving that out.

Also the "Kraft and Goodell are butt buddies", that narrative is MILES from the truth. That friendship got destroyed by Spygate. Yet people all over the country believe that the NFL is in cahoots with the Patriots. Fact is Goodell SMASHED that clab and tried to smash Brady over something as stupid, silly and insignioficant as air pressure. Yet people think they are taking showwers together.

One thing for sure, NFL fans pay little attention to facts. And fans of every team think the refs and league have it in for their team.

I find it mostly amusing, usually entertaining, and occasionally irritating.

Sorry Les but you come off acting like you are the lone voice of reason here as you know what goes on in the NFL behind closed doors. I'm not sure you have the background to be that guy.

How is the 2 game suspension of Rice an edict from the union when Goodell then goes back and suspends him indefinitely? If the union held so much sway, how did Goodell change it? The union sat back and watched as players got suspended for four games for smoking pot. And it wasn't even them that got the suspension practice for pot down to 2 games.

Rice had his suspension overturned because it was arbitrary. Y'know.. pretty much like the Brady decision. This is not a case of the players association having total sway here. It is a case of Goodell screwing the pooch. The league can establish league policy without the consent of the union and the union would be free to contest it in court on a case by case basis or else get the players to go on strike if they chose that route. It was the fact that the league did not establish a clear, set policy that got the suspensions overturned.

As to the butt buddy relationship between Kraft and Goodell, the slap on the wrist that Kraft received after Goodell destroyed evidence is anything but proof of what you are saying. It could have been so much worse and Kraft had to be delighted by how Goodell "handled" it. How the hell did he SMASH Kraft? And the Brady thing wasn't about deflated footballs as much as it was about not being able to just ignore yet ano9ther breaking of the rules by that organization. He couldn't just look the other way. So instead he produces a case with a million holes in it. OOPS!

And to the referees? They suck out loud over the past few years. Is it aimed at our team? Maybe in the case of the personal fouls. If enough coaches afraid to get their QBs smashed get in the ear of the refs, they can look for things that often aren't even there. They are human of course and they would be far from the only profession that could be influenced by powerful and persuasive people - and many coaches are just that. And of course, we are going to key on how they call OUR games.

But the fact that you disagree with other members is not what bugs me about your post. It is the calling of fans here clueless because they question the honesty of Goodell or the NFL itself or don't see it the way you do. When it comes to selling a product or protecting the shield, I put very little beyond Goodell, the other owners, or the NFL. When it comes to protecting a player's paycheck, I put very little beyond the union.

 

[MTRamsFan]

Reading this article makes me

No one can convince me Spygate was not a cover-up by Goodell, his staff, and the Cheatriots organization. Goodell is an embarrassment to the league/owners, the players and most importantly the fans. IMO, Deflatgate was just the same horse of a different color. Time for some changes. I just hope the owners will do the right thing and replace him to hopefully restore the integrity of the league. With that said, I hope the Cheatriots lose every stinking game this year.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

i wonder if doughboy, aka peter king, is gonna talk about this huge hole in brady's career when hof voting comes up? i'm thinking no.

.

 

[Stranger]

Reading this article makes me

No one can convince me Spygate was not a cover-up by Goodell, his staff, and the Cheatriots organization. Goodell is an embarrassment to the league/owners, the players and most importantly the fans. IMO, Deflatgate was just the same horse of a different color. Time for some changes. I just hope the owners will do the right thing and replace him to hopefully restore the integrity of the league. With that said, I hope the Cheatriots lose every stinking game this year.

And this ^^^ is a great example of why the NFL owners will replace Goodhell.

Powerful interests may be at play, but I think you have it all wrong.

If powerful interestes are at play, then what might their motiviation/goals be? If I've got it wrong, then speculate on a story that is "right".

 

[Athos]

Just remember it's the sponsors footing all that NFL dough, or quite a chunk of it....

Honestly, a few idle threats could bring down the Patsies.

But the damage is already done. I wish they would be stripped of their titles but I can't imagine it ever happening.

If I ever seen a Patsy fan in my life tho I'm telling him...... Not so nice things about his "team."

Really.... Does any team want to that BellyFats Cheatriots in the playoffs after this?

That'll be what settles this.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Man. That article just opens up an old wound.

Could we have won SB36 if they hadn't cheated? The world will never know.

The Patriots are so dirty, it's disgusting.