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Spike14

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Spike14
That article is mis-leading. Toxic Substance Control does not have the last word on weather construction can begin. That belongs to the Calif. State Board of Health and the Environmental Protection Agency. The site is also a Superfund site. (Del Amo Region 9).
Through this whole process, No one from the media, the Chargers, the Raiders, the City of Carson or the NFL have brought a spokesperson from either of these agencies in to publicly state the readiness of the proposed Carson site. (I don't think any of them want to) At the Carson City Hall Comptrollers Office is an outline by the EPA and the Calif. State Board of Health (see my previous post) of what needs to be addressed before either agency will give their OK for construction. That document is available for public viewing, but they will not let it be copied. I've read it. and whoever wrote that LA Times article should have read it before he wrote that piece.

Of course they don't want you to know about the corroding 55 gallon drums that are leaking to the surface, or the methane leaking up through over a dozen cracks. They want everyone to think they can start building a stadium in Carson anytime they want. I don't like being lied to. I don't like being mislead or a pawn in rich peoples schemes.

My property ( 4 blocks from the site) and everyone's in my neighborhood is valued about half of what it should, because of our closeness to the former landfill. My home would almost certainly double if a stadium were built. But I and my neighbors have been through all this more than a few times over the past 30 years. A Mall, a theather complex, a shopping center, a housing tract, and even a previous look by the NFL (1999-2000), for possible expansion. (it went to Houston). All shot down for the same reason. the cost of cleaning up the site to Board of Health and EPA standards. It is possible to build a stadium, given they do the cleanup. But saying the site is ready to build on now is an outright lie. ( the article does mention more of the methane venting still needs to be done). And it will probably take more than 18 to 24 months.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out why 200 acres of prime real estate next to 2 major freeways has been vacant for over 50 years.

I'm not saying that you are right or wrong about the nature of the Carson site. I think the methane leaks have been fairly public. Also, I don't think anyone is saying that the site cleanup will be done quickly, or that developers can build on it immediately. The 18 - 24 month time frame to complete the mitigation process has been cited previously. Can you share a public link that backs some of your assertions?
 

RamFan503

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I'll assume you have seen this article since its pretty dated. But still ....


"since the Raiders and Rams left Southern California after the 1994 season, the NFL has strengthened its relocation guidelines, and won a legal battle with late Raiders owner Al Davis regarding his claim he owned the rights to the L.A. market."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-stadium-20150117-story.html#page=1


Ok. Maybe it does say guidelines.
Yes - I remember that article and several others where they allude to the strengthening their guidelines. I would really like someone to state what specifically they did to make them more enforceable. I find it pretty difficult to buy into an argument that no one has even attempted to substantiate besides simply saying it is so. I even remember a Q&A where someone asked the question of what specifically has changed. The response was something to the effect of "league sources have told me they changed the guidelines to make going rogue tougher than it was before." I have to think that if they had indeed made substantive changes, they would have been echoed repeatedly by now in the media, by the league, by Peacock, and certainly in this thread.
 

bubbaramfan

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Here's a link for you Spike.

http://www.delamosuperfund.com

Google "Del Amo Region 9 Superfund" and you will get more links. For the property next door: Google "Montrose Chemical Superfund Region 9".
All these site have not been updated with the lated reviews by either the Calif. State Board of Health or the EPA. However there is a report for public viewing at the Comptroller office, Carson City Hall. I don't know why the websites haven't been updated with the lastest progress, but there are phone #'s. Since you asked Spike, I think I'll persue that.

There are a lot of links at these sites that go in depth on the site.

Like I said in previous posts, I don't like being misled and lied too. Carson site isn't as ready as they make it out to be.
 
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The Ripper

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Yes - I remember that article and several others where they allude to the strengthening their guidelines. I would really like someone to state what specifically they did to make them more enforceable. I find it pretty difficult to buy into an argument that no one has even attempted to substantiate besides simply saying it is so. I even remember a Q&A where someone asked the question of what specifically has changed. The response was something to the effect of "league sources have told me they changed the guidelines to make going rogue tougher than it was before." I have to think that if they had indeed made substantive changes, they would have been echoed repeatedly by now in the media, by the league, by Peacock, and certainly in this thread.

It's really easy to tell a reporter that the guidelines are tougher because none of the reporters have seen the old ones.
 

MrMotes

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I can see that argument going over very well in court. "Your honor, I know my client signed these bylaws but he didn't think they were actual bylaws - just by-suggestions. And furthermore, other owners have had success in court against the league so my client should enjoy similar success."

Legal precedent is actually pretty powerful stuff...
 

MrMotes

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Do you think he still has a case after a league vote - assuming the vote doesn't go his way?

I think that the rest of the owners, his peers, will likely approve the move (assuming that's what he asks for) saying the bylaws allow it.

If the owners were to say no to a move and Kroenke moved anyway, then it would be up to the courts. If the past is any guide, Kroenke would win. Though i really don't see it coming to that.
 

bluecoconuts

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Do you think he still has a case after a league vote - assuming the vote doesn't go his way?

Probably, but I think that if he files the NFL would probably vote 'yes' for him. I would be shocked (okay not that shocked given the total ineptitude of the NFL most of the time) if the NFL hasn't talked to all three owners before hand and told them what they want to happen (which teams they want to move)... Kroenke is probably the owner they're most afraid to say no to, and in all likeliness he knows it.

If they say no to Davis, what is he going to do? He lacks the funds. No to Spanos? It would be a dick move to someone who's supposedly been a 'company man' so to speak for so long and he could put up a fuss, but does he really have the funds to fight the NFL? Unlikely.

Kroenke? He's got the money to fight, and that's probably scary, if they say no to him they're gonna need to offer up one hell of a consolation prize to make him happy... Assuming LA is indeed his goal.

So if they say no to him, and indications are he'll fight them, I wouldn't be shocked to see them flip and change their minds. They'll probably do something similar to when the Rams left LA and increase the fee so they can pretend it was all their control, but a court case is probably the last thing they want. It's really a lose lose for them if it happens. They either "win" and have a pissed off owner in a market that knows he doesn't want to be there, and court cases are costly too, or they lose and he goes anyway and they gotta pay his legal fees, it's a big mess.

If they say no and he indicates he'll take it, then he wont ever file.
 

blue4

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It doesn't matter, it likely won't come to any of this. If it goes to court, everyone loses. I don't think Stan will take it that far. He'd be an idiot to go thru all that on top of $2 billion plus for the stadium. Far easier to put down a tiny (comparatively) percentage in St Louis, raise the value of the Rams, and sell them for a massive gain. Then move on someone else for LA, or wait for the Broncos. Or just make boatloads off the Rams after the new stadium.

And that's even if Carson makes it.
 

Spike14

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Spike14
Here's a link for you Spike.

http://www.delamosuperfund.com

Google "Del Amo Region 9 Superfund" and you will get more links. For the property next door: Google "Montrose Chemical Superfund Region 9".
All these site have not been updated with the lated reviews by either the Calif. State Board of Health or the EPA. However there is a report for public viewing at the Comptroller office, Carson City Hall. I don't know why the websites haven't been updated with the lastest progress, but there are phone #'s. Since you asked Spike, I think I'll persue that.

There are a lot of links at these sites that go in depth on the site.

Like I said in previous posts, I don't like being misled and lied too. Carson site isn't as ready as they make it out to be.

Bubba,

Thanks much for a bit of enlightenment regarding the Del Amo Superfund site. I'll try to gain some more specific knowledge regarding its status as a superfund site and exactly what that will entail moving forward.

I feel bad if you live near it and have tolerated lies and BS from government and/or Shell Oil officials over the years. Both will lie through their teeth in denial if given the opportunity to avoid a big $$ settlement or to pursue an agenda to profit from a development.

Again, thanks for sharing it
 

bluecoconuts

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It doesn't matter, it likely won't come to any of this. If it goes to court, everyone loses. I don't think Stan will take it that far. He'd be an idiot to go thru all that on top of $2 billion plus for the stadium. Far easier to put down a tiny (comparatively) percentage in St Louis, raise the value of the Rams, and sell them for a massive gain. Then move on someone else for LA, or wait for the Broncos. Or just make boatloads off the Rams after the new stadium.

And that's even if Carson makes it.

That's mostly how I see it, I think he might threaten to see how they react, but neither side would want to go to court. I think the NFL just wants it less than he does.

However I don't expect it to go to court, I think that they'll find a way to make everyone happy. The biggest question I have is how do we make Stan happy about staying in St Louis if he's dead set on LA right now? There's a way to make him happy without screwing over the city, just gotta find the line.
 

bubbaramfan

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Thx Spike I really do appreciate that. People don't realize how the powers that be (they don't realize either) the scope of the situation here. The cancer rate is 500% higher here than the national average. There have been multi-million $$ settlements, whole blocks of houses have been bought and torn down. I have dozens of neighbors that have died of cancer. The value of property within 5 square miles is half of what it should be.
I've had conversations with EPA and Calif. State Board of Health inspectors, and what they tell me is depressing. The cold hard facts are that after over 60 years of pollution, its almost like a dead zone, there's no real way to clean it all up, short of moving everyone out, and digging down 50 feet and trucking the whole mess somewhere else. And that's not going to happen. The idea of putting some kind of cap on it won't work either because they've already tried that. the methane still finds a way out. And what about that next earthquake?

Getting the folks of Carson' hopes up, AGAIN, is not fair, or the citizens of Oakland and San Diego, by using Carson site as a bargaining chip to get new stadiums.
 

Spike14

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Thx Spike I really do appreciate that. People don't realize how the powers that be (they don't realize either) the scope of the situation here. The cancer rate is 500% higher here than the national average. There have been multi-million $$ settlements, whole blocks of houses have been bought and torn down. I have dozens of neighbors that have died of cancer. The value of property within 5 square miles is half of what it should be.
I've had conversations with EPA and Calif. State Board of Health inspectors, and what they tell me is depressing. The cold hard facts are that after over 60 years of pollution, its almost like a dead zone, there's no real way to clean it all up, short of moving everyone out, and digging down 50 feet and trucking the whole mess somewhere else. And that's not going to happen. The idea of putting some kind of cap on it won't work either because they've already tried that. the methane still finds a way out. And what about that next earthquake?

Getting the folks of Carson' hopes up, AGAIN, is not fair, or the citizens of Oakland and San Diego, by using Carson site as a bargaining chip to get new stadiums.

Bubba,

Well, for you, your family, and the neighborhood's sake, I hope a solution is finally realized that decontaminates the site once and for all.

People shouldn't have to live in fear that the property they own may make them sick eventually. Meanwhile, the politicos, lawyers, and corporations, cleverly kick the can down the road for years and years in order to reduce the amount of compensation that the residents can claim. Unfortunately, that seems to be the standard practice in our society.
 

LesBaker

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Yes - I remember that article and several others where they allude to the strengthening their guidelines. I would really like someone to state what specifically they did to make them more enforceable. I find it pretty difficult to buy into an argument that no one has even attempted to substantiate besides simply saying it is so. I even remember a Q&A where someone asked the question of what specifically has changed. The response was something to the effect of "league sources have told me they changed the guidelines to make going rogue tougher than it was before." I have to think that if they had indeed made substantive changes, they would have been echoed repeatedly by now in the media, by the league, by Peacock, and certainly in this thread.

You can Google and find a couple of interviews with Amy Trask, who was the CEO of the Raiders, gave about relocation and going rogue and some other details.

A little background on her............she was working as the Raiders attorney, and then later CEO, when they moved back to Oakland and was interning there as she was going to school right after they moved to LA. She knows more about this topic than anyone else I have read, including so called reporters who these days are no better than most posters. When Jerry Jones opened his mouth and puked out some serious misinformation some smart reporters got her on the phone and asked good questions. You can look around and find them.

Unfortunately the facts don't make for good conversation and won't drive clicks/readership so her remarks have largely been ignored while Jones (who is a dolt and knows little about the facts) is quoted as gospel.

A couple of things that are going to happen if someone decides to fuck with the NFL and Goodell........

If a team just picks up and moves to LA without NFL approval they will get SLAUGHTERED by the the league. First they will have the fuck sued out of them because the NFL owns that market and will have an open and shut case for damages from fees they didn't receive. If any owner was dumb enough to do that a first year law student could win the case. And the NFL could, if they so chose to do so, remove that team from scheduling and even revoke the franchise or suspend it.

Another VERY important thing she stressed that wasn't on the books back then that is now is that the NFL can withhold that teams share of revenues, so even if a team decided to go to court and fight a losing battle they would be losing out on millions of dollars every week.

An owner can no longer just walk away from a city like Georgia did and like Modell did and Davis and so on. In fact those owners doing that is what prompted the NFL to make changes in it's rules. If a city is making efforts to build a new stadium, using this case, and can secure funding and demonstrate that there is fan support they can't just leave for greener pastures. Davis (and Trask knows this) scared the shit out of the NFL because his lawyers knew that at the time there was nothing preventing them from moving anywhere they wanted to any time they wanted to do so. And they did twice and they beat the NFL in court. A team could have moved every single year until the new rules were written and the NFL was worried that teams would start migrating and "test" other markets. That would upset the money machine and fans would stop watching in large numbers. So they rewrote the books.

Anyway, long story short. Unless the NFL allows a team to move there nobody is just going to LA, that's a myth that has been perpetuated on the web from people who are hopfull that SK will just pick up and go or people who are misinformed. If it was as easy to do as some would have you think then there would already be two teams in LA. Part of the reason I don't get into these discussions any more is most people don't have any idea about much of the facts. Like the whole "his team will triple in value" shtick that makes me chuckle.
 

The Ripper

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You can Google and find a couple of interviews with Amy Trask, who was the CEO of the Raiders, gave about relocation and going rogue and some other details.

A little background on her............she was working as the Raiders attorney, and then later CEO, when they moved back to Oakland and was interning there as she was going to school right after they moved to LA. She knows more about this topic than anyone else I have read, including so called reporters who these days are no better than most posters. When Jerry Jones opened his mouth and puked out some serious misinformation some smart reporters got her on the phone and asked good questions. You can look around and find them.

Unfortunately the facts don't make for good conversation and won't drive clicks/readership so her remarks have largely been ignored while Jones (who is a dolt and knows little about the facts) is quoted as gospel.

A couple of things that are going to happen if someone decides to freak with the NFL and Goodell........

If a team just picks up and moves to LA without NFL approval they will get SLAUGHTERED by the the league. First they will have the freak sued out of them because the NFL owns that market and will have an open and shut case for damages from fees they didn't receive. If any owner was dumb enough to do that a first year law student could win the case. And the NFL could, if they so chose to do so, remove that team from scheduling and even revoke the franchise or suspend it.

Another VERY important thing she stressed that wasn't on the books back then that is now is that the NFL can withhold that teams share of revenues, so even if a team decided to go to court and fight a losing battle they would be losing out on millions of dollars every week.

An owner can no longer just walk away from a city like Georgia did and like Modell did and Davis and so on. In fact those owners doing that is what prompted the NFL to make changes in it's rules. If a city is making efforts to build a new stadium, using this case, and can secure funding and demonstrate that there is fan support they can't just leave for greener pastures. Davis (and Trask knows this) scared the crap out of the NFL because his lawyers knew that at the time there was nothing preventing them from moving anywhere they wanted to any time they wanted to do so. And they did twice and they beat the NFL in court. A team could have moved every single year until the new rules were written and the NFL was worried that teams would start migrating and "test" other markets. That would upset the money machine and fans would stop watching in large numbers. So they rewrote the books.

Anyway, long story short. Unless the NFL allows a team to move there nobody is just going to LA, that's a myth that has been perpetuated on the web from people who are hopfull that SK will just pick up and go or people who are misinformed. If it was as easy to do as some would have you think then there would already be two teams in LA. Part of the reason I don't get into these discussions any more is most people don't have any idea about much of the facts. Like the whole "his team will triple in value" shtick that makes me chuckle.

Amy Trask was talking about the fines and relocation guidelines prior to the Raiders moving. The guidelines are virtually the same since 1984 and the penalties are too extreme to stand up. They were also in place during the relocations in the 1990's. The NFL can't own any market, they say they can but they can't. It was even brought up when the 1995 G-4 was passed. There are a few differences but the same issue applies, that the rules are subjective and not objective like the courts and congress have said. Here are the rules that were in place for the Rams back in 1995.



PROCEDURES FOR PROPOSED FRANCHISE RELOCATIONS

Article 8.5 of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws vests in the Commissioner the authority to

"interpret and from time to time establish policy and procedure in respect to the provisions of the Constitution and Bylaws and any enforcement thereof." Set forth below are procedures and policy to apply to League consideration, pursuant to Section 4.3 of the Constitution and Bylaws, of any proposed transfer of a home territory. These provisions were established in December of 1984 and remain in effect.

Section 4.3 requires prior approval by the affirmative vote of three-fourths of the member

clubs of the League (the normal voting margin for League business) before a club may transfer its franchise or playing site to a different city either within or outside its home territory. While the following provisions apply by their terms to a proposed transfer to a different home territory, a transfer of a club's playing site to a different location within its home territory may also raise issues of League-wide significance. Accordingly, the pre-Annual Meeting notification date prescribed in section (A)(1) tjelow also applies to a proposed intra-territory relocation, and the Commissioner may require that some or all of the following procedures be followed with respect to such a move.

A. Notice and Evaluation of the Proposed Transfer

Before any club may transfer its franchise or playing site outside its current home territory, the club must submit a proposal for such transfer to the League on the following basis:

1 . A club proposing a transfer outside its home territory must give written notice of the proposed transfer to the Commissioner no later than 30 days prior to the opening date of the Annual Meeting in the year in which the club proposes to commence play in a new location. Such notice will be accompanied by a "statement of reasons' in support of the proposed transfer that will include the information outlined in Part B below.

2. The Commissioner will, with the assistance of appropriate League committees, evaluate the proposed transfer and report to the membership; if possible, he will do so within 20 days of his receipt of the club's notice and accompanying "statement of reasons." The Commissioner may also convene a special committee to perform fact finding or other functions with respect to any such proposed transfer.

3. Following the Commissioner's report on the proposed transfer, the transfer will be presented to the membership for action in accordance with the Constitution and Bylaws, either at a Special Meeting of the League held for that purpose or at the Annual Meeting.

B. "Statement of Reasons" for the Proposed Transfer

Any club proposing a transfer outside its home territory must, in its accompanying "statement of reasons," furnish information to the Commissioner essential to consideration of whether such a move is justified and whether it is in the League's interest.


In this connection, the club proposing to transfer must present in writing its views to why its recent financial experience would support a relocation of the club. Such information would include a comparison of the club's home revenues with League averages and medians; past and projected ticket sales and other stadium revenues at both the existing and proposed locations; and operating profits or losses during the most recent four seasons. The club should also comment on any other factors it regards as relevant to the League's consideration of the proposed transfer, including but not limited to operations of other professional or college sports in the existing and proposed home territories, and the effects of the proposed transfer on NFL scheduling patterns, travel requirements, current divisional alignments, traditional rivalries. League-wide television patterns and interests, the quality of stadium facilities, and fan and public perceptions of the NFL and its member clubs.


To permit such a review, at least the following information will accompany the "statement of reasons" for the proposed transfer:

1 . A copy of the club's existing stadium lease and any other agreements relating to the club's use of its current stadium (e.g., concession agreements, box suite agreements, scoreboard advertising agreements) or to a stadium authority's or municipality's provision of related facilities (e.g., practice facilities).

2. Audited financial statements for the club for the fiscal years covering the preceding four seasons.

3. An assessment of the suitability of the club's existing stadium, costs of and prospects for making any desired improvements to the stadium, and the status of efforts to negotiate such improvements with the stadium authority.

4. A description and financial analysis of the projected lease and operating terms available to the club in its proposed new location.

5. A description and financial analysis of the stadium lease and operating terms available to the club in its existing home territory, on a basis that permits comparison with the projected arrangements in the proposed new location.

6. A budget projection, using accepted League charts of account, showing a projected profit and loss statement for the fiscal years covering the first three seasons in the proposed new location.

C. Factors to be Considered in Evaluating the Proposed Transfer

While the League has analyzed many factors in making expansion and team-move decisions in the past, the Commissioner will also give consideration to the factors listed below, among others, in reporting to the membership on any proposed transfer outside a home territory. Such factors were contained in a bill reported by a Senate committee in 1 984; they essentially restate matters that the League has considered vital in connection with team location decisions in the past. Accordingly, any club proposing to transfer should, in its submission to the Commissioner's office, present the club's position as to the bearing of these factors on its proposed transfer, stating specifically why such a move is regarded as justified on these standards:

1 . The adequacy of the stadium in which the team played its home games in the previous season, and the willingness of the stadium or arena authority to remedy any deficiencies in such facility;

2. The extent to which fan loyalty to and support for the team has been demonstrated during the team's tenure in the existing community;

3. The extent to which the team, directly or indirectly, received public financial support by means of any publicly financed playing facility, special tax treatment and any other form of public financial support;

4. The degree to which the ownership or management of the team has contributed

to any circumstance which might otherwise demonstrate the need for such re-

location;

5. Whether the team has incurred net operating losses, exclusive of depreciation

and amortization, sufficient to threaten the continued financial viability of the

team;

6. The degree to which the team has engaged in good faith negotiations with appropriate persons concerning terms and conditions under which the team would continue to play its games in such community or elsewhere within its current home territory;

7. Whether any other team in the League is located in the community in which the team is currently located;

8. Whether the team proposes to relocate to a community in which no other team in the League is located; and

9. Whether the stadium authority, if public, is not opposed to such relocation.

Any club proposing to transfer will have a full opportunity to state its position to the membership and to make its case for the proposed transfer. In order to fully assess a proposed transfer in light of the variety of League interests involved, and to fairly resolve the interests of all parties, it is essential that the membership be fully apprised of the relevant facts with respect to any proposed transfer. The procedures and policies outlined above are directed to that end.
 

RamFan503

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Stu
You can Google and find a couple of interviews with Amy Trask, who was the CEO of the Raiders, gave about relocation and going rogue and some other details.

A little background on her............she was working as the Raiders attorney, and then later CEO, when they moved back to Oakland and was interning there as she was going to school right after they moved to LA. She knows more about this topic than anyone else I have read, including so called reporters who these days are no better than most posters. When Jerry Jones opened his mouth and puked out some serious misinformation some smart reporters got her on the phone and asked good questions. You can look around and find them.

Unfortunately the facts don't make for good conversation and won't drive clicks/readership so her remarks have largely been ignored while Jones (who is a dolt and knows little about the facts) is quoted as gospel.

A couple of things that are going to happen if someone decides to freak with the NFL and Goodell........

If a team just picks up and moves to LA without NFL approval they will get SLAUGHTERED by the the league. First they will have the freak sued out of them because the NFL owns that market and will have an open and shut case for damages from fees they didn't receive. If any owner was dumb enough to do that a first year law student could win the case. And the NFL could, if they so chose to do so, remove that team from scheduling and even revoke the franchise or suspend it.

Another VERY important thing she stressed that wasn't on the books back then that is now is that the NFL can withhold that teams share of revenues, so even if a team decided to go to court and fight a losing battle they would be losing out on millions of dollars every week.

An owner can no longer just walk away from a city like Georgia did and like Modell did and Davis and so on. In fact those owners doing that is what prompted the NFL to make changes in it's rules. If a city is making efforts to build a new stadium, using this case, and can secure funding and demonstrate that there is fan support they can't just leave for greener pastures. Davis (and Trask knows this) scared the crap out of the NFL because his lawyers knew that at the time there was nothing preventing them from moving anywhere they wanted to any time they wanted to do so. And they did twice and they beat the NFL in court. A team could have moved every single year until the new rules were written and the NFL was worried that teams would start migrating and "test" other markets. That would upset the money machine and fans would stop watching in large numbers. So they rewrote the books.

Anyway, long story short. Unless the NFL allows a team to move there nobody is just going to LA, that's a myth that has been perpetuated on the web from people who are hopfull that SK will just pick up and go or people who are misinformed. If it was as easy to do as some would have you think then there would already be two teams in LA. Part of the reason I don't get into these discussions any more is most people don't have any idea about much of the facts. Like the whole "his team will triple in value" shtick that makes me chuckle.
So in other words you have no idea what if anything has actually changed either.

I know exactly who Amy Trask is and I have read the articles you speak of. I have read the old and new guidelines for relocation. Have you? Maybe you can tell me what the specific changes are that gives the NFL this new found power that hasn't been demonstrated before.

The fact is that there were guidelines in place before the Rams, Raiduhs, and several other teams moved. The guidelines said pretty much what they say now. There is about a 50/50 split among "experts" as to whether the guidelines could actually prevent a rogue move. Y'know, much like there was when the NFL owners voted against Georgia moving the team. In the end, a $2.2 billion lawsuit and apparently another one waiting in the wings to be filed by none other than Jay Nixon was plenty to have the NFL owners back down and hold a new vote. Well - that and a few million thrown in by Stan.

I don't personally think that is the way Stan wants to go. I don't even think he will go that way if told no. But he could and I don't think anyone knows how that would go. The owners could cave (likely) and try to get back at him. He could lose in court. He could win and have the entire good ole boyz club pissed at him like they still no doubt are toward what Georgia did.

I swear to this day, the NFL has been punishing us with bullshit schedules - playing in Seattle for the last game of the year 4 out of 5 years - lack of prime time games - so on. Could it be any coincidence that the two worst teams of the past decade are the Rams and Raiduhs? I dunno. It just seems that every time I turn around, there is something going against us.

Either way, the NFL nor any of the media have put out there what they specifically changed in the guidelines that would prevent a move. They talk about being able to but more often than not, we have seen the NFL bluster about this or that and then fall on its face unless it comes to making money. But none of them wants to be controlled and they are not particularly good at controlling other multi-millionaires and billionaires.

And the idea that the NFL owns the LA market would be very difficult to defend if they were to go to court. Try claiming a market in any area of business where you haven't conducted business in 20 years. Not only has the NFL not occupied the market, their policies have been such that they have outright abandoned it. In fact, if you read their bylaws and guidelines, they only make claim to the market for the 2nd team in LA. I suspect there is a reason for that.

The reason there are not two teams in LA already is that CA and in particular Southern CA is unwilling to spend tax dollars on NFL stadiums. I happen to believe in that as well. The previous attempts all had whatever team giving up a pretty large chunk of the team to the stadium builder or virtually everything else that would make a move to LA lucrative for the owner. The Santa Clara project showed that not only was there a way to finance a stadium but several work arounds (loop holes) that would allow them to use public funds and time in the process. No Santa Clara - no Carson plan.

Inglewood is a completely different animal. The development group is not forming a pseudo government agency to build and operate the stadium. The plans are to build a state of the art project on almost 300 acres that becomes a city in itself. And it is being proposed by someone that undeniably has the cajones to pull it off.

So you can be dismissive all you want and buy the shit the NFL is shoveling. But nothing has demonstrated what you say to be true. Certainly no more than those who think that if it came down to a lawsuit, the NFL would cave.
 

Loyal

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I always feel like an intruder when I come here, and with 523 pages of commentary, I don't know if this has been mentioned....I heard on Jim Romes show an interview with NFL correspondent Sam Farmer about the reason why the Rose Bowl turned down hosting (temporarily) an NFL team for a few years. He said that a few years ago, the Rose Bowl conducted environmental impact studies in regard to hosting a relocating NFL team..millions of dollars...But now, they refused the idea in favor of some concert series in June....Neighbors in that community were against the idea of an interloper NFL Team, so this is probably why...Yet, Farmer says that it puts a damper on the idea of two teams relocating in 2016...LA Coliseum is in the catbird seat and will probably jack up the price for whoever comes...Secondary markets like Dodger Stadium and the Angels Stadium are not as good of football venues..Farmer believes its likely only one team that will make the move in 2016..When pressed, he said the Rams were the most likely team....

Just reporting what Farmer said...
 

iced

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Anyway, long story short. Unless the NFL allows a team to move there nobody is just going to LA, that's a myth that has been perpetuated on the web from people who are hopfull that SK will just pick up and go or people who are misinformed. If it was as easy to do as some would have you think then there would already be two teams in LA. Part of the reason I don't get into these discussions any more is most people don't have any idea about much of the facts. Like the whole "his team will triple in value" shtick that makes me chuckle.

Agreed - it's like when I read hypothetical's that talk about how Stan could "negotiate" his own TV contracts in LA and how that would be beneficial to him.. just lol... clearly they don't understand the anti-trust laws, its benefit to the league, the domino effect it would have if the league lost it, and why that would that never happen. It's also funny to think that the NFL would regionally or nationally broadcast an owner's games that went rogue and negotiated their own tv contract, pulling money from their own pockets since they're not part of his deal (which is why i say he wouldn't make money this way - only "LA" would get their local broadcast; the rest of the time it'd be the other teams broadcast, both nationally and their own local market.)

just sit back and grab your popcorn :D:party:
 
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