New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[dbrooks25]

Excellent examples dbrooks25. So is the 50% rule now statutory? I get that the original deal StL was a 50% target and I guess the argument can be made that due to the extreme cost of stadiums and now that the bar is raised so high, this would be the a reasonable expectation. There are even your recent examples to bear that out.
The only real difference I see here is that the StL owner is free to leave and appears to want to. Since this is only a recent model that a couple of teams have negotiated, I'm not sure how much weight this caries.

I'm not sure if the rule is statutory, Hack. Agreed that the big difference is that SK can pack up and leave.

 

[dbrooks25]

This suit brought to light Nixon's plan which is pretty much what we all figured. Now the question in my mind is, why are all of these local politicians trying to put the kibosh on the stadium deal?
Is it that they are just doing their job and looking out for the citizens? hmmm
Are they looking for angles and revenue streams?
It all seems counter-intuitive to me if everyone in that part of the world want's to keep the Rams in StL as much as the posters on the board do.

After watching The Wire and House of Cards, who knows what the hell these politicians' angles may be. Haha!

 

[dbrooks25]

Another point for ST.Louis. Dave Peacock if you're reading this, please buy the Rams. You would be a great owner and would keep this team in the right direction for years to come. You've already done more work for the Rams then Stan has ever done.

TRUTH. Peacock is here to play and the guy gets shit done, period. Glad to have him on our side.

 

[RamFan503]

And then you got Bill with his 79.3 Billion.. I think he's said it himself, he knows he can't spend it, so he just donates it.

Honestly If I had that much I'd probably donate most of it, and use the rest to travel around the world. I don't need a giant 500 room palace or anything, something comfortable, a few fun toys, and then travel around. The biggest question I'd have is donate to veterans services or science.

Don't know that I would even own a house with that much Jack. I love going places and figuring things out. I'd travel and try to live like a local.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Don't know that I would even own a house with that much Jack. I love going places and figuring things out. I'd travel and try to live like a local.

When my girlfriend and I were backpacking Europe it was a lot more stressful, but also a lot more fun, when we went off the beaten path and tried to figure things out our own way. Having the security blanket of knowing you have an emergency out would take a lot of the stress out for sure.

 

[ChrisW]

Don't know that I would even own a house with that much Jack. I love going places and figuring things out. I'd travel and try to live like a local.

You could buy a house in every country in the world living like a local.

 

[8to12]

Peacock Statement on the lawsuit.

Peacock's response to today's action by the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority to initiate litigation in the 22nd judicial circuit to clarify the RSA’s authority to enter into a financing plan for the construction of a new NFL stadium in St. Louis:

"Our stadium proposal is gaining significant support throughout the region because it is sensible and it will work. Our financing model relies on a balance of private investment, from the St. Louis Rams and the National Football League, as well as revenue sources that have been approved by the voters. A public vote is not required. However, to finalize our proposal in the accelerated timeframe required by the NFL, it’s important to obtain legal clarity quickly. I have briefed the NFL on today’s action and we will remain in close contact with the league, and the Rams, throughout the process."

http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1103773

..."from the Rams" ? Is this common knowledge? I haven't read anything about the Rams agreeing or being asked to finance a portion of the proposed stadium.

 

[RamFan503]

When my girlfriend and I were backpacking Europe it was a lot more stressful, but also a lot more fun, when we went off the beaten path and tried to figure things out our own way. Having the security blanket of knowing you have an emergency out would take a lot of the stress out for sure.

Though I'm not opposed to doing things like backpacking around here or abroad - my sister did it when she was in college and it sounded like a kick - I would be staying in some pretty nice places but also any shack along the way if it would give me a feel of the area. I'd be fishing, hunting, diving, where ever I wanted to go for the most part. Interspersed with all that, you'd find me doing my best Andrew Bourdain.

You could buy a house in every country in the world living like a local.

Too many employees, obligations, and restrictions. If I have that kind of money, I can stay in a place and if I don't like it or something else strikes my fancy, I just go to the place next door or in the next lagoon or to a floating hut in Micronesia or cabin deep in the woods. Then I'd form a foundation to hire people to pick up litter from coast to coast.

 

[Hacksaw]

..."from the Rams" ? Is this common knowledge? I haven't read anything about the Rams agreeing or being asked to finance a portion of the proposed stadium.

Yes, they have been asked or at least reportedly so. The Rams participation is unknown but it does not appear that they are buying in.
The financial plan is for StL to come up with roughly half consisting of extended bonds, PSL's and other corporate deals, then the other half needs to consist of ESK kicking in roughly $250mm which qualifies the stadium for the NFL $200mm G4 loan which is to be repaid also by the Rams (ESK).
Peacock is banking on the premise that 1/2 the money (cost to build the stadium) should be enough good faith to force the league to deny ESK from moving out of town.
How the league plans on forcing ESK to pay that money (if he doesn't already intend to) I'm not sure, but it would have to be through a nay vote on relocation, threat of fines, and him getting so sick of rotting in the ED that he caves in and ponies up the dough.
Color me skeptical that the league actually does this and for our billionaire owner bending over that far to take it the wazoo.

 

[blue4]

Yes, they have been asked or at least reportedly so. The Rams participation is unknown but it does not appear that they are buying in.
The financial plan is for StL to come up with roughly half consisting of extended bonds, PSL's and other corporate deals, then the other half needs to consist of ESK kicking in roughly $250mm which qualifies the stadium for the NFL $200mm G4 loan which is to be repaid also by the Rams (ESK).
Peacock is banking on the premise that 1/2 the money (cost to build the stadium) should be enough good faith to force the league to deny ESK from moving out of town.
How the league plans on forcing ESK to pay that money (if he doesn't already intend to) I'm not sure, but it would have to be through a nay vote on relocation, threat of fines, and him getting so sick of rotting in the ED that he caves in and ponies up the dough.
Color me skeptical that the league actually does this and for our billionaire owner bending over that far to take it the wazoo.

I'm not sure if they will do that either, although the NFL can make a good case that he knew the rules when he bought the rest of the team if they wanted to. And he knew that STL wouldn't be able to give him a billion dollar palace without help. That's why the hardship argument makes me laugh. He hasn't even owned the Rams outright long enough to have a hardship. I'd rather the NFL just stand up and say, "we're going to fuck you over." Don't try to BS us by equating our situation with SD and Oakland. Don't try to pretend moving up the timetable "just makes sense."

 

[dbrooks25]

I'm not sure if they will do that either, although the NFL can make a good case that he knew the rules when he bought the rest of the team if they wanted to. And he knew that STL wouldn't be able to give him a billion dollar palace without help. That's why the hardship argument makes me laugh. He hasn't even owned the Rams outright long enough to have a hardship. I'd rather the NFL just stand up and say, "we're going to freak you over." Don't try to BS us by equating our situation with SD and Oakland. Don't try to pretend moving up the timetable "just makes sense."

Hardship? The fact that he is willing to go in on a multi-billion dollar stadium elsewhere should help squash that crap. LOL

 

[bluecoconuts]

I'd rather the NFL just stand up and say, "we're going to freak you over." Don't try to BS us by equating our situation with SD and Oakland. Don't try to pretend moving up the timetable "just makes sense."

Can't do that, they need to maintain the illusion that they actually care about the fans and see us as more than just walking sacks of money eager to give it away.

 

[Hacksaw]

Exactly guys. He can't claim hardship. That won't work. He could yell restriction of growth, or something to that affect (see Georgia Frontiere 1990's) though.

If the league agrees with the sentiments of blue4 then they are best served to keep a lid on that kind of talk. The opposite seems to be happening with the encouragements to Peacock and company. They cannot give the appearance of impropriety.

 

[Thordaddy]

Why Thordaddy? Our population numbers are staggering.

LA county = over 10 million butts. (LA-OC-Riverside-Ventura-Ontario /all within an hour of Inglewood/ = over 15 million)

The entire state of Mo = just over 6 million (StL county = 1.1 million)

So I don't think a strong argument can be made about the potential fan support. Why do you think everybody is able to use LA for leverage?

First Hack your making my point and underestimating the market by not including the number of Rams fans in IL who I have witnessed jamming every bridge across the Mississippi to come to Rams and Cardinal games , the Cardinals draw near the top of the league every year .
But the hugeness of your market as you trumpet derails the desire to have a team be as much a cities identity like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and others , heck if they moved there they'd have another NFL team to compete with for the cities heart, which is basically what Kroenke told Peter King he wanted. Not to forget his parents were of such fans they named him after two Cardinal greats,
LA has so many teams the fans have so much opportunity to be fickle that they root for the Clippers one year the Lakers the next USC then UCLA many of the younger fans in your market are now Charger fans and were they to move in to the new stadium the competition for the heart of the city would be that much stiffer.

Sure we all know why so many teams have used you guys to get new stadiums ,I'm surprised you asked, but since you did maybe you'd like to tell me if the grass was so green there why they didn't just move,my point is only this ,owning an NFL team is not a great investment it's mostly about ego or stature in the community , as Chris Rock used to say "evabody wants to be Puffy" well among owners it's "eavbody wants to be Art Rooney" or a Mara , or Paul Allen or in baseball Bill Dewitt, who IMO could offer Stan to sell a 20% interest in the Cardinals with the proviso that he keep the Rams here and Dewitt would buy Skips share and this shizzle would be over, over over.

Stans ties to MO are strong he's a huge Mizzou supporter Bentonville Ark is closer to far more population in MO than in Ark and was the breeding ground of Wal Marts leg up . Mind you John Shaw and the CVB have poisoned the well as best they could , and it's an uphill climb , but in LA it could be impossible to mean to a city what it can here,

 

[ChrisW]

Too many employees, obligations, and restrictions. If I have that kind of money, I can stay in a place and if I don't like it or something else strikes my fancy, I just go to the place next door or in the next lagoon or to a floating hut in Micronesia or cabin deep in the woods. Then I'd form a foundation to hire people to pick up litter from coast to coast.

Buy a house in every country you visit. Then donate it to a local poor family when you leave. BAM! now you get to live like a local as long as you want, then donate it to charity when you leave. With all those billions, you wouldn't miss it.

 

[Hacksaw]

Thordaddy (love your avi)
OH boy, this LA vs StL topic is fraught with land mines.

My question wasn't really a question I needed an answer to. It was to make the point you are trying to miss.

So your saying that because LA is bigger, has an amazing climate, is more populated and has more accumulated wealth, yada yada, that the Rams won't be as important to our community.
Is LA known for the Rams? No. Are they our identity? No again, but are they StL's. Still past attendance records shows a different result.

If you want to add the entire STATE populations of Illinois and Missouri together you have about the same number of people as LA and surrounding COUNTIES have. So I'll give you that. Bears fans not withstanding.

There are very few Chargers fans in LA. 6% SD, 13% Raiders, 81% Rams fans per NFL poll. Not buying that line of reasoning other than the obvious fact that 2 generations missed out on LA Rams football so they don't have that passion. But c'mon, you don't think they would catch on with the youngins?
If the Rams stay in the great state of Missouri, I pray the Carson thing just goes away. Most I know would prefer neither of those bum teams anywhere near our town.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the difference between LA fans and StL fans. What you missed is we do care passionately about our teams but we do have more alternatives if the team is no fun to watch. The diehards still will though and the odds are there would be more diehards out of group of 15mm.

Also to your point, I guess if the team is going to be crappy, then they would be better served to stay in StL. OK, I give on that too.

Everybody (even us Angelinos) likes a winner, so when the team is cooking, we offer a lot more fans. We also offer more fans when the team isn't doing well so the odd's are the place still fills up with local fans.
A drawback is all the transplants that would also like to attend games when their team hits town. Not my favorite scenario but the dollars still spend for the owner.

Whatever the outcome, GO RAMS and come visit California, you'll love the beaches.

 

[dbrooks25]

First Hack your making my point and underestimating the market by not including the number of Rams fans in IL who I have witnessed jamming every bridge across the Mississippi to come to Rams and Cardinal games , the Cardinals draw near the top of the league every year .
But the hugeness of your market as you trumpet derails the desire to have a team be as much a cities identity like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and others , heck if they moved there they'd have another NFL team to compete with for the cities heart, which is basically what Kroenke told Peter King he wanted. Not to forget his parents were of such fans they named him after two Cardinal greats,
LA has so many teams the fans have so much opportunity to be fickle that they root for the Clippers one year the Lakers the next USC then UCLA many of the younger fans in your market are now Charger fans and were they to move in to the new stadium the competition for the heart of the city would be that much stiffer.

Sure we all know why so many teams have used you guys to get new stadiums ,I'm surprised you asked, but since you did maybe you'd like to tell me if the grass was so green there why they didn't just move,my point is only this ,owning an NFL team is not a great investment it's mostly about ego or stature in the community , as Chris Rock used to say "evabody wants to be Puffy" well among owners it's "eavbody wants to be Art Rooney" or a Mara , or Paul Allen or in baseball Bill Dewitt, who IMO could offer Stan to sell a 20% interest in the Cardinals with the proviso that he keep the Rams here and Dewitt would buy Skips share and this shizzle would be over, over over.

Stans ties to MO are strong he's a huge Mizzou supporter Bentonville Ark is closer to far more population in MO than in Ark and was the breeding ground of Wal Marts leg up . Mind you John Shaw and the CVB have poisoned the well as best they could , and it's an uphill climb , but in LA it could be impossible to mean to a city what it can here,

Count me as one of the Illinois residents who comes across the bridge to see games. That's the part that many people who live in other parts of the country don't understand. The St. Louis area also includes residents of metro east over in Illinois and there are TONS of Cardinals and Rams fans over there. I'm in O'fallon, IL, and the ride from there to the dome is a lot easier than my ride over from North St. Louis County was when I lived there. They even have the Cards and Rams Express in Fairview Heights for the residents over there. For $5, they will provide you with a ride to and from Busch Stadium and the EJD. All you have to do is park at St. Clair Mall and hop on the buses they have circling in and out. I even see fans of other teams on the bus, though they are normally greatly outnumbered.

 

[dbrooks25]

Thordaddy (love your avi)
OH boy, this LA vs StL topic is fraught with land mines.

My question wasn't really a question I needed an answer to. It was to make the point you are trying to miss.

So your saying that because LA is bigger, has an amazing climate, is more populated and has more accumulated wealth, yada yada, that the Rams won't be as important to our community.
Is LA known for the Rams? No. Are they our identity? No again, but are they StL's. Still past attendance records shows a different result.

If you want to add the entire STATE populations of Illinois and Missouri together you have about the same number of people as LA and surrounding COUNTIES have. So I'll give you that. Bears fans not withstanding.

There are very few Chargers fans in LA. 6% SD, 13% Raiders, 81% Rams fans per NFL poll. Not buying that line of reasoning other than the obvious fact that 2 generations missed out on LA Rams football so they don't have that passion. But c'mon, you don't think they would catch on with the youngins?
If the Rams stay in the great state of Missouri, I pray the Carson thing just goes away. Most I know would prefer neither of those bum teams anywhere near our town.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the difference between LA fans and StL fans. What you missed is we do care passionately about our teams but we do have more alternatives if the team is no fun to watch. The diehards still will though and the odds are there would be more diehards out of group of 15mm.

Also to your point, I guess if the team is going to be crappy, then they would be better served to stay in StL. OK, I give on that too.

Everybody (even us Angelinos) likes a winner, so when the team is cooking, we offer a lot more fans. We also offer more fans when the team isn't doing well so the odd's are the place still fills up with local fans.
A drawback is all the transplants that would also like to attend games when their team hits town. Not my favorite scenario but the dollars still spend for the owner.

Whatever the outcome, GO RAMS and come visit California, you'll love the beaches.

I can say that the Rams was Stl's identity along with the Cards up until this recent run of bad football. The entire area was enamored with the Rams. It really does have to do with putting a winner on the field. They don't even have to be Superbowl contenders year in and year out.

As much as I love my Rams, there's a good chance they're going to endure their fair share of crappy years. I love where this team is going, but call it bad luck or whatever this team just seems destined for stretches of bad seasons.

 

[RamFan503]

Buy a house in every country you visit. Then donate it to a local poor family when you leave. BAM! now you get to live like a local as long as you want, then donate it to charity when you leave. With all those billions, you wouldn't miss it.

Being that it is obviously slow on the information front I suppose we can continue to derail this thread a bit.

I'd rather figure out a way to provide some infrastructure or clean water so they can maybe stop being poor rather than provide some family a house that they can't maintain. Give 'em a fish vs. teach 'em how to fish - y'know?

 

[Thordaddy]

Thordaddy (love your avi)
OH boy, this LA vs StL topic is fraught with land mines.

My question wasn't really a question I needed an answer to. It was to make the point you are trying to miss.

So your saying that because LA is bigger, has an amazing climate, is more populated and has more accumulated wealth, yada yada, that the Rams won't be as important to our community.
Is LA known for the Rams? No. Are they our identity? No again, but are they StL's. Still past attendance records shows a different result.

If you want to add the entire STATE populations of Illinois and Missouri together you have about the same number of people as LA and surrounding COUNTIES have. So I'll give you that. Bears fans not withstanding.

There are very few Chargers fans in LA. 6% SD, 13% Raiders, 81% Rams fans per NFL poll. Not buying that line of reasoning other than the obvious fact that 2 generations missed out on LA Rams football so they don't have that passion. But c'mon, you don't think they would catch on with the youngins?
If the Rams stay in the great state of Missouri, I pray the Carson thing just goes away. Most I know would prefer neither of those bum teams anywhere near our town.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the difference between LA fans and StL fans. What you missed is we do care passionately about our teams but we do have more alternatives if the team is no fun to watch. The diehards still will though and the odds are there would be more diehards out of group of 15mm.

Also to your point, I guess if the team is going to be crappy, then they would be better served to stay in StL. OK, I give on that too.

Everybody (even us Angelinos) likes a winner, so when the team is cooking, we offer a lot more fans. We also offer more fans when the team isn't doing well so the odd's are the place still fills up with local fans.
A drawback is all the transplants that would also like to attend games when their team hits town. Not my favorite scenario but the dollars still spend for the owner.

Whatever the outcome, GO RAMS and come visit California, you'll love the beaches.

Beaches? We don't no stinkin beaches

Again it isn't the size of the market, we are about the mid point 18 I think, we have plenty of fans we've just been "treated" to Zyggy,Shaw,and a hostile CVB who made a stupid deal and now are in an adversarial role, again we offer what Stan want's as far as community including football weather FWIW you can fill the stadium with 3% of the people in St.L alone a quality product will sell here and had the Rams not milked the cash cow ,which Stan has not shown the propensity to do,this team could be in the conversation for most consecutive sell outs,OBTW don't forget the black out is history and all teams could have a tougher time selling out no matter how many people there are to draw on.