MLB hot stove 2020

[Akrasian]

I'm not very familiar with the Dodgers roster, but is Betts necessary?

He is a right handed hitter, which the Dodgers need. OTOH, his best defensive position is RF, and the Dodgers' best player is the reigning NL MVP and Gold Glove RF, who is younger than Betts and is likely to get his own huge contract soon. Moving Bellinger or Betts to another position would reduce their value a little bit at least, plus the loss of multiple top prospects, and the huge salary hit, when the Dodgers are showing an unwillingness to going into the luxury tax territory. Betts is good enough that if the price were right it could be justified. I don't see the Sox letting him go for less than something outrageous though. Maybe I'm wrong about that though, or maybe they will blink later in the offseason.

 

[Memento]

Holy shit, Cardinals traded for a top 50 prospect in Matthew Liberatore, formerly of the Rays. No word on what the pieces going back to Tampa are.

Liberatore is Nolan Gorman's close friend, and I remember making a joke to my dad about maybe trading for him after the video showing Gorman's reflexes came out.

First Jalen Ramsey, now Matthew Liberatore. I need to go to the lottery or some shit.

 

[Memento]

Just heard: Jose Martinez, Randy Arozarena, and a Comp. A pick for Liberatore, Edgardo Rodriguez (nineteen-year-old catcher) and a Comp. B pick.

I think the Cards made out like bandits. Praying that they don't turn around and trade the house for Arenado.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Fuck the cardinals

 

[coconut]

Fuck the cardinals

 

[coconut]

Just heard: Jose Martinez, Randy Arozarena, and a Comp. A pick for Liberatore, Edgardo Rodriguez (nineteen-year-old catcher) and a Comp. B pick.

I think the Cards made out like bandits. Praying that they don't turn around and trade the house for Arenado.

I hope we don't miss Martinez bat. Why don't you start thinking about Bader raising his BA by 100 points and his HRs by 40?

 

[OldSchool]

I hope we don't miss Martinez bat. Why don't you start thinking about Bader raising his BA by 100 points and his HRs by 40?

Martinez is a DH though and the Cards are in the NL so he had no home? They were able to deal him for a pitching prospect. Both teams dealt excess and helped their teams. Thus to me looks like a good deal for both teams.

 

[coconut]

Martinez is a DH though and the Cards are in the NL so he had no home? They were able to deal him for a pitching prospect. Both teams dealt excess and helped their teams. Thus to me looks like a good deal for both teams.

Martinez bat was reliable especially in the playoffs and with power something the team needs even if it's a luxury. I hate the trading of a quality player for a pitching "prospect". Especially when that player can play three positions. Only thing I would say in favor of the trade of JM is his age could have been a big factor. IDK know if Ozuna has signed yet so one less reliable bat in the OF makes me nervous.

 

[OldSchool]

Martinez bat was reliable especially in the playoffs and with power something the team needs even if it's a luxury. I hate the trading of a quality player for a pitching "prospect". Especially when that player can play three positions. Only thing I would say in favor of the trade of JM is his age could have been a big factor. IDK know if Ozuna has signed yet so one less reliable bat in the OF makes me nervous.

Granted I am not a Cards fan but I do follow players. Martinez is a terrible fielder and to say he can play three positions is a major stretch. He's terrible in the OF and is passable mediocre at first base which happens to be occupied by one Paul Goldschmidt. You also will be fine in the OF, giving up a guy who is a potential 20 HR guy who can't field for a potential TOR is a win any day of the week.

 

[coconut]

Granted I am not a Cards fan but I do follow players. Martinez is a terrible fielder and to say he can play three positions is a major stretch. He's terrible in the OF and is passable mediocre at first base which happens to be occupied by one Paul Goldschmidt. You also will be fine in the OF, giving up a guy who is a potential 20 HR guy who can't field for a potential TOR is a win any day of the week.

Well I assure you injuries have been a frequent guest throughout the Cardinals lineup. (Not wanting to jinx anything here.) And I did say reliable bat not glove in the OF.

There's that word "potential" again! If the potential pans out for the Cardinals then I'd be very happy.

 

[OldSchool]

Well I assure you injuries have been a frequent guest throughout the Cardinals lineup. (Not wanting to jinx anything here.) And I did say reliable bat not glove in the OF.

There's that word "potential" again! If the potential pans out for the Cardinals then I'd be very happy.

Just like the potential of Martinez? He was supposed to be this huge power guy and in 3 seasons has a career high of 17 HR in a hitters time of the game. Cards fans have overrated this guy from day one. A grand total 150 players had more HR's than him including 5 Dodgers, some in far fewer at bats. I get the fascination with his potential as he hit a few clutch and monster HR's in his rookie year. But he's an average hitter who can't field in a hitters era.

 

[coconut]

Just like the potential of Martinez? He was supposed to be this huge power guy and in 3 seasons has a career high of 17 HR in a hitters time of the game. Cards fans have overrated this guy from day one. A grand total 150 players had more HR's than him including 5 Dodgers, some in far fewer at bats. I get the fascination with his potential as he hit a few clutch and monster HR's in his rookie year. But he's an average hitter who can't field in a hitters era.

Well he's no Yasiel Puig.

 

[OldSchool]

Well he's no Yasiel Puig.

He most definitely isn't anywhere close to the player Puig is. Puig is an exceptional defensive OF with a cannon. Puig is also a much better hitter with better power. Puig also isn't a Dodger anymore in case you thought I was referring to him as one of the Dodgers that hit more HR's than him. You also said he can play 3 positions which is the first time I've seen anybody claim he could play anything in the field. Rays made this trade and he might not even be their regular DH and won't start in the OF or at 1b.

I get you don't want to give up a player for a prospect. But I've seen one Cards fan who didn't like this trade so I was curious why.

 

[coconut]

He most definitely isn't anywhere close to the player Puig is. Puig is an exceptional defensive OF with a cannon. Puig is also a much better hitter with better power. Puig also isn't a Dodger anymore in case you thought I was referring to him as one of the Dodgers that hit more HR's than him. You also said he can play 3 positions which is the first time I've seen anybody claim he could play anything in the field. Rays made this trade and he might not even be their regular DH and won't start in the OF or at 1b.

I get you don't want to give up a player for a prospect. But I've seen one Cards fan who didn't like this trade so I was curious why.

JM BA .298
YP BA .277

So much for better hitter. If JM could have stayed in the Cardinals lineup perhaps he could have had better power stats.

If Puig is "exceptional" in the OF at .981 then what is JM at .983? Add in 1B and in the field JM is .989 overall.

 

[OldSchool]

JM BA .298
YP BA .277

So much for better hitter. If JM could have stayed in the Cardinals lineup perhaps he could have had better power stats.

If Puig is "exceptional" in the OF at .981 then what is JM at .983? Add in 1B and in the field JM is .989 overall.

You got it man my bad he's amazing, it's a wonder you got so little from a guy who hits so well and fields so well.

 

[Akrasian]

JM BA .298
YP BA .277

So much for better hitter. If JM could have stayed in the Cardinals lineup perhaps he could have had better power stats.

If Puig is "exceptional" in the OF at .981 then what is JM at .983? Add in 1B and in the field JM is .989 overall.

This isn't 1970. We know a LOT more about what makes a good player than batting average and fielding percentage.

Batting average of course ignores such things as on base percentage and slugging, as well as base stealing, etc. as well as viewing it in context of what the league is doing (offense is up now, for instance) and the home park differences. OPS+ isn't perfect, but vastly better than BA on it's own - and Puig's career OPS+ is 122 vs Martinez's career 120. Oh, and Puig is the younger player. Generally when players come up late like Martinez their peaks tend to be short, and they decline quickly.

Yasiel Puig

Jose Martinez

Using fielding percentage is ridiculous. What matters is getting to the ball and making outs. There are services that actually analyze what players actually did on the field to get the other team out, as opposed to the "official scorer" who is doing another job also, checks on his box on whether the player blatantly screwed up. I.e., errors are where the player touched the ball and then screwed up, while if the player didn't get to the ball, it doesn't count as an error - but a statue doesn't get to balls that other players would routinely. For his career, Puig is listed as 40 runs above average in actually saving runs defensively. He makes some throwing errors, but also makes a LOT of throws the average player wouldn't even attempt. Martinez just doesn't do much, costing his team 22 runs compared to an average player. In other words, he might be a nice guy, but he is a bad fielder.

This is irrelevant, of course. When Puig stopped being an all star caliber player, the Dodgers dumped him for two prospects who are now two of their top prospects, and haven't missed him. I doubt that the Cards miss Martinez - with his fielding he has to be a top hitter to be valuable, and he isn't. Oh, and he's actually a year and a half older than Puig. Hitters who don't hit the majors until 27 rarely have long careers, and tend to decline rapidly. Getting a nice prospect for him is a steal.

As an outfielder, Martinez kept

 

[Memento]

@coconut

J-Mart is a horrible fielder at first and in the outfield. If the NL had a DH (will not get into another argument about the DH in the NL), he'd still be on the Cards. Losing Arozarena sucks, but getting a top fifty prospect who happens to be a top southpaw in return just makes sense.

And I don't get the hate for Bader's hitting. Yadier Molina used to be the worst hitting catcher in the league, someone who was put in the eight spot numerous times by LaRussa. Kolten Wong finally had a solid offensive year to go with his defense. Bader's only twenty-five, and has Gold Glove potential. Why not see what he can do?

 

[coconut]

You got it man my bad he's amazing, it's a wonder you got so little from a guy who hits so well and fields so well.

I'm glad you came to your senses.

 

[coconut]

This isn't 1970. We know a LOT more about what makes a good player than batting average and fielding percentage.

Batting average of course ignores such things as on base percentage and slugging, as well as base stealing, etc. as well as viewing it in context of what the league is doing (offense is up now, for instance) and the home park differences. OPS+ isn't perfect, but vastly better than BA on it's own - and Puig's career OPS+ is 122 vs Martinez's career 120. Oh, and Puig is the younger player. Generally when players come up late like Martinez their peaks tend to be short, and they decline quickly.

Yasiel Puig
Jose Martinez

Using fielding percentage is ridiculous. What matters is getting to the ball and making outs. There are services that actually analyze what players actually did on the field to get the other team out, as opposed to the "official scorer" who is doing another job also, checks on his box on whether the player blatantly screwed up. I.e., errors are where the player touched the ball and then screwed up, while if the player didn't get to the ball, it doesn't count as an error - but a statue doesn't get to balls that other players would routinely. For his career, Puig is listed as 40 runs above average in actually saving runs defensively. He makes some throwing errors, but also makes a LOT of throws the average player wouldn't even attempt. Martinez just doesn't do much, costing his team 22 runs compared to an average player. In other words, he might be a nice guy, but he is a bad fielder.

This is irrelevant, of course. When Puig stopped being an all star caliber player, the Dodgers dumped him for two prospects who are now two of their top prospects, and haven't missed him. I doubt that the Cards miss Martinez - with his fielding he has to be a top hitter to be valuable, and he isn't. Oh, and he's actually a year and a half older than Puig. Hitters who don't hit the majors until 27 rarely have long careers, and tend to decline rapidly. Getting a nice prospect for him is a steal.

As an outfielder, Martinez kept

You make excellent points but I'd add that while the Cardinals only play the Dodgers a few games a year and I've not seen all those games I was never impressed with Puig's base running. My personal preference is for Whitey Ball so thats why I like Bader (hope he improves his BA) and see a proven JM as being desirable over the potential of any pitcher. But It's Still In Mo I Trust. Even though I don't like it.

 

[coconut]

@coconut

J-Mart is a horrible fielder at first and in the outfield. If the NL had a DH (will not get into another argument about the DH in the NL), he'd still be on the Cards. Losing Arozarena sucks, but getting a top fifty prospect who happens to be a top southpaw in return just makes sense.

And I don't get the hate for Bader's hitting. Yadier Molina used to be the worst hitting catcher in the league, someone who was put in the eight spot numerous times by LaRussa. Kolten Wong finally had a solid offensive year to go with his defense. Bader's only twenty-five, and has Gold Glove potential. Why not see what he can do?

I like Bader a lot in the field and on the bases but his hitting is too weak. We need him to be a much improved hitter not only to get on base more but to drive in runs from the bottom of the batting order. Imagine Bader batting .300 in the leadoff spot. Molina is an excellent example of a Cardinal who drastically improved his BA and so was Ozzie Smith.

Losing Arozarena might hurt with that potential thing. I hope the farm keeps producing.