McVay on last year's offense and Goff

[808RAMS]

Well, McVay better be careful that he doesn't put too much on Stafford.

One area, from a big picture perspective, where Goff has an advantage on Stafford is that Goff's weaknesses, either perceived or real, prevents coaches from putting everything on him. Thus he will lead a more balanced attack.

Meaning, Stafford has likely suffered from the same issues guys like Marino, Elway, Manning, and now even a guy like Wilson deals with. Coaches unrealistic expectations that their QBs can carry their team by themselves.

Just look at Don Shula. The guy won SB's with Griese or Morrall, throwing the ball 15 times a game and running guys like Csonka, Kiick and Morris 40 times a game. Hell, even went to a SB with David Woodley.

He gets Marino, and sure he made it to the SB in his 2nd year, but each year after he becomes more pass happy, never gives Marino a ground game, and they never sniff another SB.

And sure the game began to change into a passing game, but then look at Elway. He did carry multiple teams to SBs, but were always beaten by better all around teams who ran the ball down their throats. Once Elway's skills diminished, Denver found a ground game and built a more balanced team... Result? They win two SBs.

Peyton Manning had a disappointing post season record when you consider how great a QB he was. And what happens? Both SB winning teams he did play on, those yrs were carried in the post season by a ground game. The year he won with the Colts their ground attack carried them in an upset win over the Ravens then again dominated in the SB. Of course with the Bronco's the D carried them, but also a balanced offense.

So point is, don't be surprised if Goff and the Lions have more team success than many now might think they will.... And not saying they are a playoff team. Just saying people think they only could win 5 w/ Stafford, so Goff certainly will win only 2 or 3... Don't be surprised of they still win 5 or 6 or maybe a few more. Detroit will be forced to be a more balanced offense, making them better.

Conversely if McVay gets carried away and starts throwing it 45 times a game, the Rams may not end up with a much better record than in recent years when we all thought they disappointed.

I get the point you’re trying to make, but I think my point was lost along the way. I’m saying that Goff wasn’t grasping the ability to read defenses well and McVay decided to move on from Goff. Bad throws leading to interceptions instead of handing the ball off to the running back. IMO, we have a decent running attack with Akers and Henderson, but both were underutilized due to Goff wanting to chuck the ball when receivers were blanketed by dbs.

 

[PhillyRam]

I get the point you’re trying to make, but I think my point was lost along the way. I’m saying that Goff wasn’t grasping the ability to read defenses well and McVay decided to move on from Goff. Bad throws leading to interceptions instead of handing the ball off to the running back. IMO, we have a decent running attack with Akers and Henderson, but both were underutilized due to Goff wanting to chuck the ball when receivers were blanketed by dbs.

Not arguing that, just wanted to make an additional point that McVay cant get too aggressive, or lets say too caught up in his passing schemes, and must remain somewhat balanced. Otherwise this gamble will not pay off as some expect.

Goff was in a sense a governor on those impulses as McVay knew he had to stay balanced...even with that McVay at times got pass happy.

So just stating that additional view and it will be interesting how this works out.

I just think Stafford is in a way to blame, not personally, but just his presence in Detroit allowed too many coaches to fall in love with the pass and they ignored balance... Just like Marino or Elway and now the last few yrs with Wilson in Seattle. Hell, I would even add Rothilsberger. The last several yrs Pitt gave up on running the ball it seems... They put too much on the QB position now.

 

[FrantikRam]

Not arguing that, just wanted to make an additional point that McVay cant get too aggressive, or lets say too caught up in his passing schemes, and must remain somewhat balanced. Otherwise this gamble will not pay off as some expect.

Goff was in a sense a governor on those impulses as McVay knew he had to stay balanced...even with that McVay at times got pass happy.

So just stating that additional view and it will be interesting how this works out.

I just think Stafford is in a way to blame, not personally, but just his presence in Detroit allowed too many coaches to fall in love with the pass and they ignored balance... Just like Marino or Elway and now the last few yrs with Wilson in Seattle. Hell, I would even add Rothilsberger. The last several yrs Pitt gave up on running the ball it seems... They put too much on the QB position now.

I think that's overblown, personally. Fans only care about balance if the team loses or the QB plays poorly and they want to blame the coach.

Nobody complained about balance when we went into Tampa and won without even acting like we were going to run the ball.

IIRC people did complain about lack of balance after we beat the Browns last year when Goff turned the ball over three or four times, even though Cleveland was missing their entire starting secondary and passing made sense.

It's sketchy to me when people only complain about it in those circumstances - but not in the win over Tampa. Because we don't really know of it was the player(s) not executing.

 

[SteezyEndo]

Uninspiring to say the least. McVay had to make a choice for the progression of this team. I think every choice he makes is for the success of this team. We as fans got to respect that.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

I respectfully disagree.



McVay is a phenomenal Head Coach. I'm glad we have him. And he did a great job with Cousins. But I'll point out that Cousins's numbers since McVay left are actually slightly better than his numbers with McVay as his play-caller. We'll see what Goff does over the next few years. He definitely developed Goff. I fear that he gave up on him too quickly.

I have to say that he may have given up too early since Goff is still extremely young, but time will tell. I honestly thought next year would be Goff's make or break year since I'm sure that we'll try to sure up the O-line and get a burner at WR this year. The Rams have chosen a different route and definitely have a baller at QB. I just hope it works in our favor, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Faceplant]

Not arguing that, just wanted to make an additional point that McVay cant get too aggressive, or lets say too caught up in his passing schemes, and must remain somewhat balanced. Otherwise this gamble will not pay off as some expect.

Goff was in a sense a governor on those impulses as McVay knew he had to stay balanced...even with that McVay at times got pass happy.

So just stating that additional view and it will be interesting how this works out.

I just think Stafford is in a way to blame, not personally, but just his presence in Detroit allowed too many coaches to fall in love with the pass and they ignored balance... Just like Marino or Elway and now the last few yrs with Wilson in Seattle. Hell, I would even add Rothilsberger. The last several yrs Pitt gave up on running the ball it seems... They put too much on the QB position now.

You make excellent points. It will be interesting to see if KC goes down a similar path. Reid has been good about keeping a good running game involved, but it must be tempting to want to sling it more when you have an arm like that at your disposal....espexially with the weapons they have in KC right now.

 

[PhillyRam]

I think that's overblown, personally. Fans only care about balance if the team loses or the QB plays poorly and they want to blame the coach.

Nobody complained about balance when we went into Tampa and won without even acting like we were going to run the ball.

IIRC people did complain about lack of balance after we beat the Browns last year when Goff turned the ball over three or four times, even though Cleveland was missing their entire starting secondary and passing made sense.

It's sketchy to me when people only complain about it in those circumstances - but not in the win over Tampa. Because we don't really know of it was the player(s) not executing.

Individual games are one thing... Sure play a team that is great against the run, but has a suspect secondary then you will pass more. However, time and time again balance wins.

As great as Brady was down the stretch, the emergence of Fournette was a huge boost for that team. It made a big difference in how they were defended.

 

[FarNorth]

Well, McVay better be careful that he doesn't put too much on Stafford.

One area, from a big picture perspective, where Goff has an advantage on Stafford is that Goff's weaknesses, either perceived or real, prevents coaches from putting everything on him. Thus he will lead a more balanced attack.

Meaning, Stafford has likely suffered from the same issues guys like Marino, Elway, Manning, and now even a guy like Wilson deals with. Coaches unrealistic expectations that their QBs can carry their team by themselves....

So point is, don't be surprised if Goff and the Lions have more team success than many now might think they will.... And not saying they are a playoff team. Just saying people think they only could win 5 w/ Stafford, so Goff certainly will win only 2 or 3... Don't be surprised of they still win 5 or 6 or maybe a few more. Detroit will be forced to be a more balanced offense, making them better.

Conversely if McVay gets carried away and starts throwing it 45 times a game, the Rams may not end up with a much better record than in recent years when we all thought they disappointed.

I agree, but would put it somewhat differently.

Imo McVay had reached the limit of his current scheme with the players he had last year. The offense just didn't have the personnel to be explosive or to mount a deep passing attack or to be consistently successful in the red zone. Injuries hurt too. The scheme devolved into a short passing game, sometimes with a more patient running game but often not. The offense also became quite predictable to defenses, and had been for two years, especially because play action wasn't consistently working.

As McVay said the other day: " I think when you have to go 12, 15-play drives consistently, your margin for error is so small. The level of competition is just so great that you have to be able to find ways to continuously create explosives, give yourself a little bit of margin for error, that it's not always taking that many plays to produce points in this league." He might have added that when you can't stretch the field, can't block the rush up the middle, and the defense knows your favored routes, the margin for error is even less.

(Please note: You can criticize Goff all you want, have at it-- this is my view of the underlying offense.)

When McVay started watching film of Stafford apparently he began to get excited about potential play designs for him and how he might fit into the offense or the offense could be fit to him. McVay was then hooked. Imo, trading for Stafford was McVay's way to get out of the box that he himself created with his own short passing offense and his own personnel, including Goff.

The good news is that having a totally experienced veteran quarterback with talent and playmaking skills means McVay can design different plays. The other side of the coin is that McVay will have to rework his passing game, create opportunity for explosives downfield again, and give Stafford more latitude to make things happen. (Can't imagine the coach calling into two plays every down for Stafford, or prescribing his reads and progressions.) The offense as a whole will have to work better. Stafford also needs a deep threat and better blocking.

Stafford is undoubtedly talented and will be more than motivated to make this a success. But imo this is a challenge, not a certainty. Let's hope it works and the 2021 offense lives up to the sometimes extravagant expectations of this board.

 

[PhillyRam]

I agree, but would put it somewhat differently.

Imo McVay had reached the limit of his current scheme with the players he had last year. The offense just didn't have the personnel to be explosive or to mount a deep passing attack or to be consistently successful in the red zone. Injuries hurt too. The scheme devolved into a short passing game, sometimes with a more patient running game but often not. The offense also became quite predictable to defenses, and had been for two years, especially because play action wasn't consistently working.

As McVay said the other day: " I think when you have to go 12, 15-play drives consistently, your margin for error is so small. The level of competition is just so great that you have to be able to find ways to continuously create explosives, give yourself a little bit of margin for error, that it's not always taking that many plays to produce points in this league." He might have added that when you can't stretch the field, can't block the rush up the middle, and the defense knows your favored routes, the margin for error is even less.

(Please note: You can criticize Goff all you want, have at it-- this is my view of the underlying offense.)

When McVay started watching film of Stafford apparently he began to get excited about potential play designs for him and how he might fit into the offense or the offense could be fit to him. McVay was then hooked. Imo, trading for Stafford was McVay's way to get out of the box that he himself created with his own short passing offense and his own personnel, including Goff.

The good news is that having a totally experienced veteran quarterback with talent and playmaking skills means McVay can design different plays. The other side of the coin is that McVay will have to rework his passing game, create opportunity for explosives downfield again, and give Stafford more latitude to make things happen. (Can't imagine the coach calling into two plays every down for Stafford, or prescribing his reads and progressions.) The offense as a whole will have to work better. Stafford also needs a deep threat and better blocking.

Stafford is undoubtedly talented and will be more than motivated to make this a success. But imo this is a challenge, not a certainty. Let's hope it works and the 2021 offense lives up to the sometimes extravagant expectations of this board.

And he needs a running game...

 

[FarNorth]

And he needs a running game...

If Akers can stay healthy he will have a running game, plus an outlet in the passing game, plus big some plays. It will help Akers too if the oline can improve.

 

[PhillyRam]

If Akers can stay healthy he will have a running game, plus an outlet in the passing game, plus big some plays. It will help Akers too if the oline can improve.

Akers doesn't call the plays... Just saying McVay needs to resist relying on his new toy too much.

 

[Jacobarch]

This post is hilarious and the sad part is I've read it many times here the last couple of years.

Defenses rarely show the exact defense they're running before the snap. They always change things up after the snap to try to fool the qb.

To think a defense is going to show exactly what they're running for the complete 40 secs before the snap is laughable.

.

You should listen to the first minnesota game where they gave our offense a hard time. Why? Because they would switch up their defense after the 15 second mark. I never said teams stay in the same def up to the snap. But they definitely show their hands as far as what base they are in, most of the time. Teams adjust all game, and the QB needs to be ahead of the defense. Which goff clearly is not.


I also think it's hilarious and mostly sad that goff can't read a defense.

 

[rams1fan]

Or maybe Goff just never instilled confidence into McVay that he could lead the charge without being carefully monitored/guided. Goff was very streaky where he would go for long stretches of being spot on or just plain off. He is a talented NFL QB but especially this year I found myself on the edge of my seat way too often hoping Goff wouldn’t make another bone head turnover or fall into a 3 series funk. It was not a feeling of confidence or satisfaction.

Yeah but then why give him the big contract? At the minimum that would be very poor judgement on player potential.

 

[Jacobarch]

With our double headed running attack our offense should be lethal. Rbs just need to stay healthy and we need a deep threat.

 

[PARAM]

With our double headed running attack our offense should be lethal. Rbs just need to stay healthy and we need a deep threat.

Yes, provided Cadbury fixes the OL issues.

 

[Gandalf]

we are all guessing as to what happened with goff and mcvay but here in margarittavile some say there is a woman to blame

And it's true....it's the bitches fault.

 

[dieterbrock]

I also think it's hilarious and mostly sad that goff can't read a defense.

I think its hilarious that someone can actually believe Goff cant read a defense

 

[blackbart]

He seemed to be reading D’Souza and making changes but taking WAY too much time to get the ball snapped, some of that has to be McVay too. The bigger problem is that he continued to make bad decisions and turned the ball over even after they talked about it every week.

 

[Jacobarch]

I think its hilarious that someone can actually believe Goff cant read a defense

Well I think mcvay would tend to disagree w you.

 

[Jacobarch]

Yes, provided Cadbury fixes the OL issues.

Our oliine wasn't THAT bad. They were ok. They had great games and not so great games. I think upgrading our C position fixes the minor issues we had up the middle