Les Snead Better Be Right

[Zodi]

Yes, it would.

I disagree 100%, because your basing your draft decisions on pure conjecture. I know this, because sometimes, great college players end up total duds in the NFL, and average college players (or those with limited body of work, ie Tom Brady) find success. When you review a college player's tape and decide thats your guy, you're speculating that he can perform in the same way at the next level. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. If things were absolute or black and white, that wouldn't happen. People are messy.

You can say he's "that good" as long as it's followed by "in college."

And yes, NFL teams do disrespect interior OLs. That's not the sole reason why Lamp fell, but it is one of the biggest. If he were considered a legitimate LT prospect, he'd have gone top 20.

Valuing one position over the other isn't disrespect. QBs are valued over RBs for a reason, even though both are in the backfield. We've seen several interior lineman go in the first round over the last few years. Hell, I bet the numbers vs QBs would be almost comparable.

 

[tomas]

 

[Zodi]

I'm not sure the meaning behind this post, but I like it.

 

[jrry32]

I disagree 100%, because your basing your draft decisions on pure conjecture. I know this, because sometimes, great college players end up total duds in the NFL, and average college players (or those with limited body of work, ie Tom Brady) find success. When you review a college player's tape and decide thats your guy, you're speculating that he can perform in the same way at the next level. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. If things were absolute or black and white, that wouldn't happen. People are messy.

You can say he's "that good" as long as it's followed by "in college."

You're dancing around my point. A lot of people on this board put time and effort into watching these players. When a person comes on and says, "Well, NFL teams didn't take him that high, so he isn't that great." You're disrespecting the effort they put in to develop their opinion. At minimum, you can break his game down and explain why. If you can't do that, you have no business taking the stance. You don't have the information needed to make that determination. Basically, if a person is going to say that, they need to put up or shut up.

I don't care that this is an inexact science. It disrespects the people who put effort into informing themselves to use that cop out.

* - I am using "you" generally. This is not directed at you personally unless you are one of those guilty of this.

Valuing one position over the other isn't disrespect. QBs are valued over RBs for a reason, even though both are in the backfield.

I don't care what a person wants to call it. I personally call it a market inefficiency. Interior OLs are undervalued around the NFL. The league is slowly catching on, but we're still not there yet.

 

[InnovatedMind]

Could be worse this guy could be a Rams fan instead. BTW if you've never watched one of his video's get ready for lots of language definitely NSFW.

ROFL.

 

[Zodi]

A lot of people on this board put time and effort into watching these players. When a person comes on and says, "Well, NFL teams didn't take him that high, so he isn't that great." You're disrespecting the effort they put in to develop their opinion. At minimum, you can break his game down and explain why. If you can't do that, you have no business taking the stance.

That's the obvious explanation, though. Good, coveted players (based on game tape, position, etc) get drafted high. Those who fall, usually fall for a reason. Those who get drafted in the sixth round, as Snead put it, "are in the sixth round for a reason." That's the general rule, and yes, there are exceptions. But these guys actually pulling the trigger on picks have a lot more information than even the greatest arm chair GM has access to.

If scouting players, creating mock drafts, etc is your hobby, go for it. But it isn't a science, and the consensus among "experts" and actual NFL clubs usually vary. So coming to a conclusion using your method isn't more legitimate than using a different one; It's all based on generalities and speculation, anyways.

To say that you "have no business forming an opinion on a player unless you put a lot of time and effort into scouting him is kind of ludicrous. Everyone has the right to an opinion, especially on a message board. Just as they have that right, you have the right to disagree, and not everything is deserving of a debate.

 

[jrry32]

That's the obvious explanation, though. Good, coveted players (based on game tape, position, etc) get drafted high. Those who fall, usually fall for a reason. Those who get drafted in the sixth round, as Snead put it, "are in the sixth round for a reason." That's the general rule, and yes, there are exceptions. But these guys actually pulling the trigger on picks have a lot more information than even the greatest arm chair GM has access to.

To say that you "have no business forming an opinion on a player unless you put a lot of time and effort into scouting him is kind of ludicrous. Everyone has the right to an opinion, especially on a message board. Just as they have that right, you have the right to disagree, and not everything is deserving of a debate.

You can form an opinion. You can post an opinion. However, when you decide to tell another person that their opinion is wrong, you can either put up or shut up. If you haven't done the research, you shouldn't be telling anyone who has that they're wrong. If you have done the research, you should be able to defend your position.

It's that simple. If you don't have the knowledge, don't pretend that you do. Know your limitations. You disrespect the people who have put in the work when you tell them that they're wrong when you lack the knowledge to break down the player's skill-set.

My dad gave me advice when I was young, "Don't start a fight if you can't finish it." If you're going to confront another person on their opinion, you better have the knowledge and information to back yours up. If you don't, don't start the argument.

It's not about infallibility or superiority of information. It's about knowing what you're talking about. If you don't, don't act like you do. There aren't many things that bother me more than that.

If scouting players, creating mock drafts, etc is your hobby, go for it. But it isn't a science, and the consensus among "experts" and actual NFL clubs usually vary. So coming to a conclusion using your method isn't more legitimate than using a different one; It's all based on generalities and speculation, anyways.

Yes, it is more legitimate than using a different one. Sitting down and scrutinizing the player playing football is a much more legitimate method than putting no or minimal effort into researching the player.

 

[InnovatedMind]

WR:
Kupp, Austin, Woods, Reynolds, Cooper, Thomas, Spruce

TE:
Everett, Higbee, Hemmingway

RB:
Gurley, Dunbar, Davis, Sam "The Ram" Rogers

... A LOT of options for McVay. This could be a very high ceiling and versatile offense.

 

[OldSchool]

WR:
Kupp, Austin, Woods, Reynolds, Cooper, Thomas, Spruce

TE:
Everett, Higbee, Hemmingway

RB:
Gurley, Dunbar, Sam "The Ram" Rogers

... A LOT of options for McVay. This could be a very high ceiling and versatile offense.

I'd add UDFA Justin Davis to that RB list.

 

[InnovatedMind]

I'd add UDFA Justin Davis to that RB list.

Done, he is very nice! Wonder why he has highlights of 2 years ago and not much else though.

 

[ramsplaya16]

I hate these arguments. Lamp is that good. People have made this same argument about so many players over the years. It's as if they think that great players don't fall out of the first round every year.

If you think he's not that good, turn on the games, break him down for us, and tell us what his flaws are.

You hate these arguments? What's that, arguments that present the truth that teams do value interior lineman and that an average of 3 have gone in the first round of the draft every year? And no, I'm not going to turn on the games and break him down because I simply don't have the time for that, plus it's honestly not worth my time as I don't really care all that much. Yes good players do fall out of the first round, but if he was as elite as you and some others seem to be claiming, teams would have valued him as so and drafted him in the first round. Or even teams in the 2nd round who sorely needed o-line help that passed him up should've picked him. You could be right and he's may be a great player. But as of right now he's simply a prospect who may or may not pan out.

I do respect your opinion and enjoy the mocks and breakdowns you do on here. I'm not saying lamp is a bad player at all. I'm just saying that #1, teams do value interior lineman in the 1st and early part of the 2nd... and #2, a ton of teams who needed O-line help passed on him and a few even 2 times, for players who were deemed reaches... I know in another post you said you don't trust scouting and management in making these decisions and I said I do. The truth is though, they are reviewing tape all year round, sometimes even two years in advance, its literally they're job, and if they were incompetent at it, they would be out of work. So with this new staff, I'll trust them until proven otherwise.

 

[ReddingRam]

Done, he is very nice! Wonder why he has highlights of 2 years ago and not much else though.

he got knicked up a bit, but nothing serious

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

With the scarcity of OL talent in the draft, the value of olinemen increased. Lamp would've been a great choice for us that would've benefited Gurley and in turn Goff, etc. I think the "Los Angeles Chargers (whatever that's supposed to be)" drafted wisely. Then again it's awesome we landed Whitworth at a time when OL value is going up, but we need some young guys--maybe some of our backups are as good as Lamp would've been this year, but the future is coming, injuries are a part of football, etc.

Having said that, I'm okay with McVay getting some targets for Goff and excited he's getting his system going. That and great OL coaching (Callahan) helped the OL in Wash. function on a higher level.

 

[KOWALSKI]

I'd add UDFA Justin Davis to that RB list.

i have a hard time to see the rams wr group will include 3 slot wrs. cooper vs spruce fight for the last spot.
and no way davis is better than brown and/or green.

i really love this draft. udfa class looks pretty meh. but i like mundt.

 

[DaveFan'51]

or this is his last year with the Rams. I'm just a fan that believes both the Offense and Defense schemes start out front. I have heard some say that Rams coaches must like what they have on the Oline, since they didn't address it whatsoever in the Draft. Whitworth and Sullivan FA pickups must have been all they intended to do with the Oline. I think it was an absolute fail not picking Forrest Lamp at #37, but hey, what do i know? I don't get paid to make these decisions and Les Snead does. If Gurley and Goff are getting no help again this year from the defensive push, Snead should be canned. yeah, he gets a lot of direction from coaches, but he is the lone holdover (besides Coach Bones) from the Fisher regime.

I want to be that guy that loves the taste of crow, but if I am right, I want Snead's head on a stick.

These issues where well covered in the Snead/McVay Post Draft Presser, If you have a chance to see it! Coach Kromer saw Players on our O-Line he wants to work with, and they said they where able to grab one in the UDFA's they got post Draft! So I have Faith in them!

 

[FRO]

WR:
Kupp, Austin, Woods, Reynolds, Cooper, Thomas, Spruce

TE:
Everett, Higbee, Hemmingway

RB:
Gurley, Dunbar, Davis, Sam "The Ram" Rogers

... A LOT of options for McVay. This could be a very high ceiling and versatile offense.

Potential is there, but outside of Gurley's rookie year there isn't a lot of production in that group. Rams need these guys to step up.

 

[Loyal]

These issues where well covered in the Snead/McVay Post Draft Presser, If you have a chance to see it! Coach Kromer saw Players on our O-Line he wants to work with, and they said they where able to grab one in the UDFA's they got post Draft! So I have Faith in them!

I saw it Dave..but still doesn't dissuade me about the BPA being Lamp @ 37. But no worries.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I saw it Dave..but still doesn't dissuade me about the BPA being Lamp @ 37. But no worries.

I completely agree!! But " In-McVay-I-Trust!!

 

[bwdenverram]

Taking away the people that we drafted for a minute I think the the biggest factors to everything that is happening right now are probably a bit overlooked:
1) Our new HC brings an offensive scheme that had his team ranked #3 in total offense in the NFL
2) Our new OL coach brings the knowledge and history that brings the #1 rushing offense in NFL
I think we all agree that our old offense was pretty stale and predictable. And, often times our execution was just plain terrible.

The addition of Whitworth is huge. Put Saffold next to him and make a few changes along the line and we could have a good OL overall. Plus, I think Kromer will do wonders for them and if we execute anything like Washington did even getting to say 15th overall is HUGE. Adding guys like we did in the draft like Kupp who are great route runners and sure handed shouldn't be undervalued. Getting people on the same page, executing the right game plan and playing instead of overthinking makes all the difference in the world.
We all had other players we wanted at certain spots but we had to get more athletic and explosive and I think we did. Obviously time is the only way to know for sure but time to get on board with what we have. The two points above I mentioned is enough for me to be excited to find out.

 

[bdfitz]

Even though I hate moving Havenstein to G and GRob to ROT I have to think they see something there. I'd prolly go with Saffold to ROT and have Havenstein back him up and move GRob to G. Havenstein would get plenty of Reps. Still, McVay's moves leave us with Havenstein and at least 4 other Guards so as much as I wanted Lamp and Feeney I'll wait and see. Our Oline was manhandled, humiliated by half the NFL last year. They looked pretty weak physically including Havenstein but I think it's mostly mental now. They need to regain confidence and if we had Lamp and Feeny with Sullivan, Big Whit and Saffold at ROT.....oh well