Kaepernick, RGIII, or Manziel in STL in 2016?

[LumberTubs]

Kaepernick can't spot wide open receivers pre-snap and doesn't look past his first read (this is just the beginning of the issues I have with this guy. I cannot express my disdain enough).

RG3 is a locker room cancer with bad knees. Even Dan Snyder has given up on him.

Manziel has proven that he cannot mature and its only a matter of time until he lets his organisation down yet again. Plus he simply isn't talented enough to get away with it. He is the poster boy for why NFL teams are finding it harder to draft NFL ready QBs.

Our QB play has been bad this season but none of these choices solve that. In fact, I think that overall they'd make the situation worse. At least Foles and Keenum are the kind of characters you'd want in a locker room. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for finding a replacement for both (and I would like to see Mannion play more snaps towards the end of each of the next 3 games, circumstances permitting, to get a better idea of what we have) but none of the 3 QBs named above are even close to being the answer in my view.

 

[Fatbot]

Ugh.

This thread sucks.

Both in terms of the fact that it even exists...

^This is the bottom line.

Keeps reminding me of way back when, a buddy and me had season tix to the Rams for the first time. For me it was a big deal -- not just the hours to drive to get there every game -- but because I've never lived in L.A. or St. Louis and never been around a lot of other Rams fans in person. So of course we got to know all the other season ticket holders around us through several games of commiserating over our misery of losing and I finally experienced others sharing the pain of being life-long Rams fans. It was an awesome bond we all shared.

Near the end of the year the 49ers came to visit and one of our fellow die-hard fans took off his jacket to reveal a 49ers jersey. "I like them both," he explained, "and the 49ers are doing better so I'm rooting for them today" was his explanation.

My buddy of course was ready to beat the crap out of him, but for me there was no anger just profound sadness. That's what the repeated calls for Krapperdouche and the positive 49er references here bring back-- just sadness.

I guess I'm going to either not come by this board as much or start putting people on ignore, I just don't want to be sad coming here. I guess I should ask a final question before that, if Krapperdouche is actually a serious option for some (indeed, some seem kind of giddy about it), do people even have any line at all to the limits of their fandom? If so, why wouldn't this cross their personal line? I just can't believe that even if it was somehow decided (ludicrously) that Krapperdouche would mean the team wins more, is it worth it? Is winning really the end all, be all of fandom for so many people here, everything else be damned? I find that so hard to believe especially since we're all still here after surviving the worst losing stretch in NFL history proves there's more to being a Rams fan than the team winning.

 

[blue4]

Basically we have no options but retreads we used to ridicule (with justification), rookies, former Rams starters with limited talent but lots of heart, and unknown potential draft picks that we won't get without mortgaging the farm or tanking the last games.

All to be coached up by Mr Offense himself.

I am overwhelmed with optimism for next year.

Perhaps we could trade for Stafford or Ryan. It'd be pricey, but at this point if we ever want to feel what it's like to watch our team in the playoffs again, we may have to do it. That's probably a long long shot.

 

[blue4]

^This is the bottom line.

Keeps reminding me of way back when, a buddy and me had season tix to the Rams for the first time. For me it was a big deal -- not just the hours to drive to get there every game -- but because I've never lived in L.A. or St. Louis and never been around a lot of other Rams fans in person. So of course we got to know all the other season ticket holders around us through several games of commiserating over our misery of losing and I finally experienced others sharing the pain of being life-long Rams fans. It was an awesome bond we all shared.

Near the end of the year the 49ers came to visit and one of our fellow die-hard fans took off his jacket to reveal a 49ers jersey. "I like them both," he explained, "and the 49ers are doing better so I'm rooting for them today" was his explanation.

My buddy of course was ready to beat the crap out of him, but for me there was no anger just profound sadness. That's what the repeated calls for Krapperdouche and the positive 49er references here bring back-- just sadness.

I guess I'm going to either not come by this board as much or start putting people on ignore, I just don't want to be sad coming here. I guess I should ask a final question before that, if Krapperdouche is actually a serious option for some (indeed, some seem kind of giddy about it), do people even have any line at all to the limits of their fandom? If so, why wouldn't this cross their personal line? I just can't believe that even if it was somehow decided (ludicrously) that Krapperdouche would mean the team wins more, is it worth it? Is winning really the end all, be all of fandom for so many people here, everything else be damned? I find that so hard to believe especially since we're all still here after surviving the worst losing stretch in NFL history proves there's more to being a Rams fan than the team winning.

Being a rams fan is only recently about bonds of sadness. It used to be about thrilling offense and terrified DCs. I can't fault anyone for grasping at anything that might help being a fan more fun.

Besides if the fans seem to be too mercenary to get what they want, remember we learned it from our owners.

 

[Big Willie]

Come on, Les. Foles has looked like donkey poop in every game except for two games this year. It's not about the OL. It's about Foles.

With a good QB, this team is definitely in the playoffs. Foles isn't that. There's a reason Chip Kelly was so eager to dump the guy. And there's a reason why he's currently riding the pine while a journeyman like Case Keenum that couldn't play over Austin Davis and Shaun Hill last year is starting.

If Foles played any other position but QB, people would not be defending the guy.

When Foles can't put the ball on open WRs, it's not the OL. It's Foles.

I also think Foles is afraid to get hit after getting pummeled several times this year and as a result is jittery in the pocket. This has caused bad mechanics and a loss of confidence. A good line could help correct these issues for Foles. Make no mistake, however, Foles at best is middle of the league QB and should be expected to be a game manager rather than a difference maker. We still need to find that difference maker at QB.....I just don't think RGIII, Johhny Football, or Kap fit that bill.

 

[bwdenverram]

That's like being on survivor and choosing which insect you want to eat.

Uh.....I'll take the larva I guess.

 

[DCH]

Ge-no Ge-no Ge-no Ge-no

Geno!

 

[BigRamFan]

Ge-no Ge-no Ge-no Ge-no

Geno!

I can agree with half of that, the "no".

 

[DCH]

I can agree with half of that, the "no".

Lots of people disagree with me on it. I'm gonna keep beating that drum, though. Certainly over Manziel and Kaepernick. RGIII, everything depends on his knee.

 

[RamFan503]

I would take CK out of that group any day and twice on Sundays. As much as I think he was WAY overhyped at the beginning, I think he has some skills that can be utilized in a run heavy attack. He also has the arm strength to work with.

As to Foles.... Sorry but he has never been a very good QB IMO. Except for the occasional play, he needs wide open receivers and plenty of time. The reality is that good QBs buy time when they need to and make quick decisions when the defense is bearing down. All QBs take sacks. But Foles simply lacks the ability to consistently put the ball in playable positions. He had one truly good game for us and that was the first one against AZ. But he was still just fairly good. Rewatch the Seattle game. I don't think you will actually see a QB delivering passes in tight windows or one that is hitting his spots. Rewatch the game we played against Philly in '14 and I mean watch it. He was awful.

His '13 season was an aberration. Wide open receivers, confused defenses with Chip's offense not being seen before, a pretty weak conference. He was in actuality, just ok and put in some very good situations. But he was never asked to read a defense or change plays at the line. Chip's offense has always called for the QB to get the signal after the coaches have seen the D. I admit that I haven't watched Chip's NFL offense all that much but unless he changed his philosophy, he is not sending a QB out there to change plays with any regularity.

It's actually something Marriota benefitted from once Chip left Oregon. He became a more well rounded QB rather than a college only prospect.

 

[RamFan503]

^This is the bottom line.

Keeps reminding me of way back when, a buddy and me had season tix to the Rams for the first time. For me it was a big deal -- not just the hours to drive to get there every game -- but because I've never lived in L.A. or St. Louis and never been around a lot of other Rams fans in person. So of course we got to know all the other season ticket holders around us through several games of commiserating over our misery of losing and I finally experienced others sharing the pain of being life-long Rams fans. It was an awesome bond we all shared.

Near the end of the year the 49ers came to visit and one of our fellow die-hard fans took off his jacket to reveal a 49ers jersey. "I like them both," he explained, "and the 49ers are doing better so I'm rooting for them today" was his explanation.

My buddy of course was ready to beat the crap out of him, but for me there was no anger just profound sadness. That's what the repeated calls for Krapperdouche and the positive 49er references here bring back-- just sadness.

I guess I'm going to either not come by this board as much or start putting people on ignore, I just don't want to be sad coming here. I guess I should ask a final question before that, if Krapperdouche is actually a serious option for some (indeed, some seem kind of giddy about it), do people even have any line at all to the limits of their fandom? If so, why wouldn't this cross their personal line? I just can't believe that even if it was somehow decided (ludicrously) that Krapperdouche would mean the team wins more, is it worth it? Is winning really the end all, be all of fandom for so many people here, everything else be damned? I find that so hard to believe especially since we're all still here after surviving the worst losing stretch in NFL history proves there's more to being a Rams fan than the team winning.

I'm a Rams fan only. If a player puts on the horns, I am cheering for him. I have to admit that it would be very difficult of not impossible to cheer for Brady but most players simply play for who signs them. It kills me when Rams players go to other teams - not so much when other players come here.

I wouldn't relish the idea of CK being our QB. I think he is a tool. But I have to be honest that we have signed tools in the past and I still cheered for them while they were wearing the horns. I don't think he will ever be a really good QB. But in context of this thread and also when looking at all options for our team, we could likely do worse than Kraperdouche. In fact we have done worse.

 

[RamBill]

Sean Salisbury joined Kevin Wheeler to talk about Nick Foles, Case Keenum, and Sean Mannion, and tells if the Rams answer is here.

Listen to Salisbury Talk Rams QB

 

[Zaphod]

I've been thinking about this a lot, but what fan of this team hasn't, right?

If our choices really are limited to those three Kaepernick is probably the best option in my opinion, but I do worry about his ability to read a defense as it pertains to our system, and what really scares me about him is whether or not he'll continue to prove himself a pocket passer rather than accepting and expanding on his niche in this game.

It's obvious that life just hasn't beat down Manziel enough yet, and I question whether or not RG3 can pick himself up but he'd be my second choice on that list.

Maybe more concerning is the greater possibility that the Rams would try to use either one of them in a traditional pocket quarterback role.

But if you really want to know what I think we need it's an absolute Gangster at reading defenses and making adjustments.

Seriously, think about it ...

1) young offensive line, whom with another year of experience and training you may very well be able to go no huddle (not hurry up).
2) the threat to hand off to Gurley
3) Austin in motion
4) Austin and Gurley on screens and flats

That's not really touching on anything requiring a decent arm outside of play action and Austin on go routes. Run first, right? You can go with two tight ends and still spread the field horizontally. Heck, we're almost doing it now as it's about all we've got.

All you really need is someone who's sharp enough to read the defenses and hit those fast slants, ins and outs, right? I mean if our offense gave us that on a consistent basis to balance the running game. Is it sad that I would have loved to see what Clemens or Hill could do to supplement the emergence of Gurley and Austin?

I mean yes, I'm going there ... Kellen Clemens. To me Foles was that bad. I don't think we need much, and I'd love to see us run bootlegs and designed rollouts more often.

 

[jrry32]

I also think Foles is afraid to get hit after getting pummeled several times this year and as a result is jittery in the pocket. This has caused bad mechanics and a loss of confidence. A good line could help correct these issues for Foles. Make no mistake, however, Foles at best is middle of the league QB and should be expected to be a game manager rather than a difference maker. We still need to find that difference maker at QB.....I just don't think RGIII, Johhny Football, or Kap fit that bill.

Then Foles needs to find a new sport.

 

[RamzFanz]

But Foles decline started with the Eagles, hence the trade out of town.

What is 34, 30, 37, 21, 28, 27, 20?

The points the Eagles scored with Nick Foles last season. This season, the Rams have won every game they have scored 20 or more.

What is 5-2?

Foles record on the Eagles last season. They went 5-4 after he was benched. I would pay for season tickets to watch that decline.

Foles won with the Eagles. I'm not defending Foles. I'm saying he fit better there. They covered his weaknesses and the Rams can't.

 

[jrry32]

What is 34, 30, 37, 21, 28, 27, 20?

The points the Eagles scored with Nick Foles last season. This season, the Rams have won every game they have scored 20 or more.

What is 5-2?

Foles record on the Eagles last season. They went 5-4 after he was benched. I would pay for season tickets to watch that decline.

Foles won with the Eagles. I'm not defending Foles. I'm saying he fit better there. They covered his weaknesses and the Rams can't.

Foles didn't play as badly as he did this year...but he was playing poorly with the Eagles. Which is why Kelly dumped him.

The Eagles didn't really cover his weaknesses. They just had enough talent and a good enough scheme that Foles looked mediocre in 2014 instead of downright awful like in 2015.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I go with Manziel. His CAP hit would be next to nothing and he won't become a free agent until 2018. While we are developing our OL, his feet can help keep plays alive. We can start him or bring him off the bench, I don't really care, but would rather have him than much higher salaried players like Kaep, RG3 or Foles. jmo.

 

[RamzFanz]

Foles didn't play as badly as he did this year...but he was playing poorly with the Eagles. Which is why Kelly dumped him.

The Eagles didn't really cover his weaknesses. They just had enough talent and a good enough scheme that Foles looked mediocre in 2014 instead of downright awful like in 2015.

Enough talent and a good enough scheme is actually the very definition of covering his weaknesses. Yes, there was enough talent and a better scheme and therefore, he was far more productive. You put it better than I could ever have.

I always admire when people claim Kelly was right to dump Foles because he sucked on the Eagles despite the fact that they did worse without him. The same naysayers claim he was worse from 13 to 14, and it's all on Foles, even though they dumped a ton of offensive talent, and Foles had the best QB record on the Eagles that season. In the woods, where the firelight shrouds the watchers in shadow, they even say he was worse this season, on a new team, with no line, and less talent around him, because of him. It makes sense and it scares me.

Foles sucks on the Rams, for many reasons, including his own weaknesses that are exposed here. He didn't suck on the Eagles for many reasons. He actually kicked ass on the Eagles and we would be very proud to have his record there, here.

 

[RamzFanz]

I go with Manziel. His CAP hit would be next to nothing and he won't become a free agent until 2018. While we are developing our OL, his feet can help keep plays alive. We can start him or bring him off the bench, I don't really care, but would rather have him than much higher salaried players like Kaep, RG3 or Foles. jmo.

Not off the bench, out of the bar. When you need him, you call the bartender.

I'm kidding of course, the Rams would have the bartenders putting him into an Uber well before game time. Johnny Highball will never let us down!

 

[jrry32]

Enough talent and a good enough scheme is actually the very definition of covering his weaknesses. Yes, there was enough talent and a better scheme and therefore, he was far more productive. You put it better than I could ever have.

I always admire when people claim Kelly was right to dump Foles because he sucked on the Eagles despite the fact that they did worse without him. The same naysayers claim he was worse from 13 to 14, and it's all on Foles, even though they dumped a ton of offensive talent, and Foles had the best QB record on the Eagles that season. In the woods, where the firelight shrouds the watchers in shadow, they even say he was worse this season, on a new team, with no line, and less talent around him, because of him. It makes sense and it scares me.

Foles sucks on the Rams, for many reasons, including his own weaknesses that are exposed here. He didn't suck on the Eagles for many reasons. He actually kicked ass on the Eagles and we would be very proud to have his record there, here.

That would be correct. The issue here is that you equate statistics with performance. So you look at what Foles did in Philly with a better supporting cast and it indicates that his performance was acceptable. But it is clear that it wasn't acceptable to Kelly. With a better supporting cast comes higher expectations.

Putting up mediocre production with a quality supporting cast might not be all that different from bad production with a poor supporting cast. Yes, it's clear that Foles is performing worse. No surprise. His confidence has taken a beating.

Issue here is that you think Foles didn't suck on the Eagles. Well, that's not true. Foles did suck on the Eagles in both 2014 and 2012. He just didn't suck as much as he has here.

Kelly was absolutely right to dump Foles. The trade for Bradford...just not the right move.

The problem here is that a number of posters seem unwilling to blame Foles. Don't know why. They point fingers at the OL, receivers, tight ends, coaches, etc. But when Foles comes up, he's not at fault. What he could he do with no OL or WRs? Not even Aaron Rodgers could succeed here. BS. I call BS.

Foles didn't play well last year. He's playing terribly this year. His confidence is shot. He was a mediocre at best starter before his confidence was destroyed. The guy isn't worth the trouble. And his confidence being destroyed isn't on the OL or WRs or TEs. It's on Foles. Those guys are at fault for their own mistakes. They're not at fault for Foles's.

If Cook misses a block, that's Cook's fault. If Robinson gets called for holding, that's Robinson's fault. We can all agree on that. But it shocks the hell out of me that Nick Foles can miss open WRs or throw terrible INTs and it's not his fault.

This is the NFL. These guys are paid too well to be above blame.

And frankly, Foles isn't worth our time if he needs Kelly's scheme to be successful. A scheme that simplifies QB reads and takes much of the responsibility for the offense out of the QB's hands. If Foles can't handle an offense that isn't dumbed down, I don't know why anyone thinks he's worthwhile. No, the Rams aren't going to run a hurry up style offense to try and mask Foles's weaknesses...because it would only mask the overall strengths of the current team. But you know what...you're right. They did mask his weaknesses much better than we did. Too bad masking Foles's weaknesses would have meant undermining our team's strengths. Foles isn't nearly a good enough QB to be worth that.

Foles simply doesn't have the ability. And it's clear that Fisher and Snead misread how much room for improvement there was in a new scheme. But that's life. I was optimistic too. It's clear at this point that Foles isn't the guy. That needs to be accepted and he needs to stop being absolved of blame. He took the most prominent role of any player in dragging the 2015 season down into the depths of another non-winning season.