John Johnson---PFF rating (verygood)

[OldSchool]

What has Johnson done...in his career....would lead anyone to believe he's superior? Seriously? Doesn't Barron lead our team in interceptions? 2nd in tackles Tackles? How about tackles for losses? SS have to tackle...well...Johnson doesn't.
Barron has always been an impact player...Tampa's defense...the system....the "old Tampa 2" is outdated and antiquated ( been wanting to use that word for a while now, glad you gave me the opportunity) and isn't used much, if at all by top defensive teams...maybe the Steelers....but even they go to a more man to man approach when facing teams like NE.

At SS, Barron has done none of that. Barron was such an impact SS in Tampa this top 10 draft pick was traded for a 4th and 6th round pick in his 3rd year.

He was moved to LB due to an injury I believe...he couldn't start over TJ McDonald....probably due to seniority....and TJ can play....but once in the lineup, it was obvious he needed to stay on the field...now he's a full time ILB.

He was moved to LB because he wasn't as good as our safeties nor was he as good as Tampa's other safeties.

He was brought to the Rams...the only truth in that statement....I do think if Wade can win another championship he'll be considered one of the best. Son of Bum has been gifted with great talent...wherever he's gone. He's not as good as a Carroll, Belichick, Ryan (Buddy not his sons)...and I'm pretty old so I'd put Landry, Carson, Allen, Noll, Bill Arnsparger and Grant in there as well...
Son of Bum is a good DC....not as good as his daddy...probably more like a Marvin Lewis....Rex Ryan....he turns superior talent into great defenses....

"I know better".....didn't say that....maybe I do...maybe I don't....I have an opinion...Sorry I watched the Washington game...I watched the Dallas game...I watched the PHILLY game....I saw what CASE KEENUM did to US. I'll be watching this week...on DVR....and definitely next week....against a pretty good OC....and what is supposedly a bad team...SF

Sorry I didn't realize Wade Phillips was such a bad DC. Look your initial comment was "see what I have to put up with here at ROD?" If you don't like discussing the players and opinions on them I'll just ignore you going forward.

 

[fastcat]

Barron wasnt moved to LB becuase he couldnt beat out our starters. Lol... Barron was traded to us in 2014 after the season had already started. So he missed ota's, mini camp, and training camp with us. After a few games he suited up and didnt play much UNTIL one of our safeties got hurt and u think it was TJ. While Barron had more playing time, his play showed he HAD to be on the field. He was undoubtedly the best player on the D that wasnt a lineman. Our starter came back but Barron showed that he is a playmaker but you cant have 3 safeties. So they rotated him with Dunbar. And he ended up taking his spot.

And if your counting on a cb or s to stop a run consistently... your in big big trouble.

 

[LACHAMP46]

such a well thought out and respectful response...I had to reply....here goes....

You're mentioning Barron leading our team in INTS and tackles... As a linebacker. Yet you are acting like this translates directly to him at the safety spot. He has 3 INTS this year as a linebacker and 3 INTS in 3 years as a SS in Tampa. He is having a career year in a position he was switched to in order to revitalize his career.

Argue about Lovie being the problem if you want, but that's three years of production that isn't overly impressive.

Never said he leads the team in tackles....but if he does that's interesting....I did say he led the team in INT's....which is significant in the fact he has very good ball skills....makes/leads me to believe that if given the opportunity on THIS team, and THIS defense, these numbers would improve....

SS is very much like a WLB....which is why I believe he's been so successful...it's also why I believe if switched back to SS, you'd see similar if not BETTER results. I'd like to believe he's also at his peak...

We all know Tampa didn't use a his talents correctly...Being Rams fans we should also realize how poor coaching can effect a player and his play....Don't have to go into details about this, do I???? Yes, Lovie and his defense is a problem....In fact while at Illinois, his defense, the Illini has gotten worse defensively since he's been the HC. Again, I like Lovie..it appears the game has passed him by.

Revitalized...no...just better coaching. He was ALWAYS a good player. Stats don't tell the whole story.

. Also, as far as raw stats go, Barrons best year tackles wise as a safety was 88 combined tackles, solo and assists. John Johnson would probably surpass that if he started all 16 games.

As far as stats go....he's always recorded over 70 combined tackles a season....this isn't about the tackles Johnson makes...more the ones...especially on those huge runs...explosive plays...that he misses....and the way he misses them...one instance I'm referring to is the run by the Jags RB....it appeared...TO ME...that he didn't want any part of the contact. Check it out yourself...and that's not the only time I've noticed this....maybe he's a rookie...he gets a pass...my point being...you can't have that type of play on a team with championship aspirations.

He is better this year than T.J. Ward and Morgan Burnett in terms of raw stats and is statistically comparable to George Illoka as well.

TJ Ward...really? Haven't noticed Ward...Morgan Burnett? Those guys are on the downside of their careers...nowhere near their peaks...Illoka....is he supposed to be good? Cause he's not.

If Mark is better than John Johnson right now... So? Barron in a career year is currently better than a Rookie. Alright. He should be. Not to mention, they are still in different positions.

My point is...he's better...right now...the championship aspirations thingy...at least you admit that...grudgingly...and again...SS and LB are very similar...ILB is a lil different...more traffic...more shedding of blockers...a lot of "trash" to pick through before you can find and engage a runner...however his coverage skills...in zone and man are on par with the top SS of the game. We've already noted his tackling skills....and I've never seen him almost intentionally avoid contact...like I mentioned above on the play by Fournette and Johnson. Yall can claim bad angle this or that...he didn't want it. Period

John Johnson is no where near the complete liability you paint him as.

See above...every playoff team will have a good offense...not like most of the teams we've played and beaten.

To say Barron "Is one of the best players we have at LB, he would be just as as good if he were at SS" is just false. There is a reason he was moved to linebacker in the first place and a reason he is better there than he ever was at safety.

That's your opinion...and it's ok....we will agree to disagree...no love loss or skin off my back...

The reason he was moved was due to an injury...he's playing better than ever because he's receiving better coaching, in a better system, with better players...it's not proven that he's a better ILB than SS. In fact, when he first arrived and played a hybrid SS/WLB, he was playing pretty damn good then too.

Enjoyed this as well.

 

[LACHAMP46]

At SS, Barron has done none of that. Barron was such an impact SS in Tampa this top 10 draft pick was traded for a 4th and 6th round pick in his 3rd year.

Tampa had a terrible defense then ....still terrible now. Seriously doubt Barron was the problem....Scheme was.

He was moved to LB because he wasn't as good as our safeties nor was he as good as Tampa's other safeties.

Just false...injuries...AND it was obvious he needed to be on the field...

Sorry I didn't realize Wade Phillips was such a bad DC. Look your initial comment was "see what I have to put up with here at ROD?" If you don't like discussing the players and opinions on them I'll just ignore you going forward.

cute the way you like to twist my words...read them the way YOU want to....l said Wade was a good DC...

But you can't say he's one of the TOP DC's in our lifetime...you're my age....because TOP to ME means Belichick type consistency....or....several years of dominance....DOMINANCE....with whatever talent you are given...he's a good DC...so is Williams...shut down top offenses...win on the road...dominance....I've seen the 85 Bears defense....2000 Ravens....dominant D's.

You constantly say stuff that in no way relates to my point...what does WADE knows more than me have to do with my opinion? Like, if wade says the waters green, he's been to the ocean more, I should shut the fuck up....when I know, most days the ocean is brown...feel me?

If your only response to my point on...JOHN JOHNSON is this or that according to PFF, and your response is WADE knows more....you aren't discussing my point...you're attacking my intellect. In fact, several people have commented that PFF doesn't know shit..you should just say to all of them, Chris Collinsworth knows more than you, so his grades must matter....but you don't....know why...cause PFF doesn't watch the game like fans of the TEAM do...

Main point...John Johnson is OK as a rookie....better than ok you say? LOL...check out the tackles he misses...not the ones he gets a hand on and misses...the ones where it "appears" he took bad angles and running backs break for huge gains...which PFF doesn't count as missed tackles...cause the player wasn't touched/contacted.

Oh yeah...and Barron's better...second point...probably one of our top defensive players....he's getting banged up inside...as witnessed by the number of reported injuries & missed practiced days.

So yeah...I gotta deal with discussing weird shit, instead of my point.

 

[LACHAMP46]

And if your counting on a cb or s to stop a run consistently... your in big big trouble.

Last line of defense....like, if a RB breaks through..what, he's supposed to go for 50? Make the open field tackle...And, if you look at what we give up on the ground...the run defense IS in a lil turmoil. Somethin aint right...and it needs to be fixed. And a good open field tackler...AT SAFETY....would help in this area.

 

[OldSchool]

So yeah...I gotta deal with discussing weird crap, instead of my point.

Your point was that you feel Barron is a better SS than Johnson because of Barron's production as a linebacker. Which just doesn't make sense and it doesn't jive with what we've seen from him on the field. Twist it however you want it just doesn't work.

 

[SteveBrown]

Did I ever tell you guys how much I love this place? I mean, I get to go at it with Ole school....and a new challenger today...mister Steve Brown...well lets get started.

.

Yes, JJ can not tackle so well, and in fact doesn’t want to tackle 220lber coming At him full speed. He is not a SS, but a FS. Yes, I am very aware of the awesomeness of Barron. Without him our D would Not be half as good.

We can find a lot of guys to play ILB, but not a lot who could play SS. We needed a SS.
Mo failed and Cody Davis faled; and JJ and COdy are not really SSs. We needed a SS, yet Barron couldn’t play it well enough, and all the coaches know it.

Barron doesn’t know how to get in coverage; he knows how to run, he has very
Little passing game instincts oas a SS….but, as a LB he is good enough on crossers.

Oh and by the way, 3 INTs means he isn't dropping
balls...it doesn't mean he can cover. Grow up LA, you aint 12 anymore.

Barron has the speed to run with any TE, and so that is awesome. Thte Rams don't have to take him out
on passing downs---that is wow, incredible for an ILB. He is one of the best Players on the defense---yes!!!
And, I truly believe Barron is a pro bowl quality player...

IF we sign Joyner to a long term contarct, we are 'stuck' with JJ at SS---unless we rotate them. JJ is like D Sharper, he will play for 10 years and get a lot of interceptions.

JJ was a bit 'off' against the Eagles it appeared. Happy to hear about the other games, with details, as to where he was so off in coverage....yes, I know he is not a true SS---spare that.

-oh ya, the "zone is outdated".......that is around for many reasons, one being that no corner can cover Antonio B, or J Jones for entire game in man coverage without any help over the top....no one. And so, you must grow in your football understanding, not just 'information'.....wake up, bro!

Bring it me boy--

 

[Corbin]

Damn this thread got pissy...
Irradiance through three pages and don’t think i read any good points. Taking my ball and...

 

[SteveBrown]

good point---i added to that...sorry

 

[Ramstien]

What I like about JJ is he is better in coverage than anyone we have had at SS. Also he is a sure tacklers not just going for the big hit, which can lead to a miss.

 

[Soul Surfer]

@LACHAMP46

You're mentioning Barron leading our team in INTS and tackles... As a linebacker. Yet you are acting like this translates directly to him at the safety spot.

I would say that the fact that both of our inside linebackers were safeties directly correlates with how difficult it is to pass on us in the middle of the field.

Also if Barron was typical inside linebacker size, there's no way in heck he would be covering tight ends and patrolling the middle of the field as well as he does.

 

[fastcat]

Last line of defense....like, if a RB breaks through..what, he's supposed to go for 50? Make the open field tackle...And, if you look at what we give up on the ground...the run defense IS in a lil turmoil. Somethin aint right...and it needs to be fixed. And a good open field tackler...AT SAFETY....would help in this area.

In today's nfl if you are CONSTANTLY (meaning thats the defensive scheme) relaying on a saftey to stop a rb your in trouble. If it was 20yrs ago i would agree with you. Most safeties are built differently and are more of a coverage guy these days. Its like depending on john lynch to cover a reciever

 

[RAMpage28]

I would say that the fact that both of our inside linebackers were safeties directly correlates with how difficult it is to pass on us in the middle of the field.

Also if Barron was typical inside linebacker size, there's no way in heck he would be covering tight ends and patrolling the middle of the field as well as he does.

Not denying that Barron being a former safety helps him as a cover linebacker, but I'm saying he wouldn't be as productive at safety as he currently is at linebacker. He has good cover skills as a linebacker, but he's not as good in coverage from the safety spot.

 

[Soul Surfer]

I would say that the fact that both of our inside linebackers were safeties directly correlates with how difficult it is to pass on us in the middle of the field.

Also if Barron was typical inside linebacker size, there's no way in heck he would be covering tight ends and patrolling the middle of the field as well as he does.

AND LITTLETON!