Jared Goff 2016

[MTRamsFan]

Watched 1st half of Rams-Vikings game. Not withstanding a couple drops by Quick and Marques, some of Goff's throws were off because he couldn't step into his throw due to pressure. If you go back and watch, he can't follow through which messes up accuracy. The first couple drives he threw the ball well, other than a couple drops,but once they started bringing in the backup lineman, the Vikings were able to get pressure and disrupt him. Give him the first unit O-Line and he will be successful.

 

[jrry32]

I believe that's a bit of a non-sequitur. My fandom and faith has nothing to do with my 'belief' in Case. But if you want to discuss logic or past experience, we can do that now. Logic dictates that as of right now, Jared Goff gives this team the best chance to lose the opener. He's hitting on 44% of his passes and has thrown 2 inteceptions while putting the ball on the ground 3 times. He looks overwhelmed and it shows. Past experience dictates that quarterbacks from college who run a no-huddle offense and take snaps exclusively from shotgun have a rather large adjustment period that needs to be navigated before they can be given the *privilege* (not right) to run an NFL offense. Unless of course they can show in camp, preseason, and practice that they're immensely intelligent and talented enough that they can drastically shorten that adjustment period. Goff hasn't done that. There's over 60 years of NFL *experience*, collectively, on this coaching staff that knows how to evaluate a players' readiness and ability to execute.

Of the two (Case and Jared), Case is the only one who - again, at this time - knows where every receiver on offense is *supposed* to be on any given play. He's the only one who can look at a defensive alignment and know where the pressure is likely to be coming from. He's the only one who can look at a defense and know where the one-on-one is likely to occur. And he's also the only one who is calm enough to see the ball into his hands before looking up field, despite knowing a blitz is coming his way. This is because he knows this offense, has seen 100X the amount of NFL defenses, and is 100X less likely to turn the ball over. Would it be logical to lose the first game or two or five by putting in a quarterback who's less equipped to drive an offense simply because he's more talented? What does that say about your faith and your fandom?

There's a difference between more talented and better.

Goff is more talented. Right now, Keenum is simply better.

When Goff becomes better than Keenum, Goff will become the quarterback.

Here's the issue. None of us disagree that Keenum is more mentally prepared today. Where we disagree is how quickly Goff will get "it" by playing.

The majority of us in favor of playing Goff believe he'll have his ups and downs early on. But by struggling through those ups and downs over the first few games, he'll get to where he needs to be to pass Keenum. We don't believe that sitting him on the bench is a substitution for that game experience.

Further, we also believe that we can win even with an up and down Goff over the first quarter of the season. Our schedule isn't easy, but we still have Gurley, the defense, and the special teams. They won us games last year when Foles and Keenum contributed very little. They can do it again.

The reality to many of us (well, our reality) is that Keenum doesn't offer this team much at QB. He won't turn it over often. That's true. But he also is not good at putting the ball in the end-zone. Many of us are willing to trade rookie mistakes for points and improvement as the year goes on. Why? Because we believe that Goff can continuously improve during his rookie season and put us in the position to do some damage by the time the playoffs roll around.

Reasonable minds can disagree on that. But that's where we stand. Basically, Keenum gives us a better chance to win game 1, but playing Goff gives us a better chance to win over the entire 16 game schedule. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

Uh oh.

30 pages?

.

 

[OldSchool]

Here's the issue. None of us disagree that Keenum is more mentally prepared today. Where we disagree is how quickly Goff will get "it" by playing.

The majority of us in favor of playing Goff believe he'll have his ups and downs early on. But by struggling through those ups and downs over the first few games, he'll get to where he needs to be to pass Keenum. We don't believe that sitting him on the bench is a substitution for that game experience.

Further, we also believe that we can win even with an up and down Goff over the first quarter of the season. Our schedule isn't easy, but we still have Gurley, the defense, and the special teams. They won us games last year when Foles and Keenum contributed very little. They can do it again.

The reality to many of us (well, our reality) is that Keenum doesn't offer this team much at QB. He won't turn it over often. That's true. But he also is not good at putting the ball in the end-zone. Many of us are willing to trade rookie mistakes for points and improvement as the year goes on. Why? Because we believe that Goff can continuously improve during his rookie season and put us in the position to do some damage by the time the playoffs roll around.

Reasonable minds can disagree on that. But that's where we stand. Basically, Keenum gives us a better chance to win game 1, but playing Goff gives us a better chance to win over the entire 16 game schedule. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

The bolded is the key part. Yes Goff will turn it over but he'll also make great throws that Keenum just isn't capable of making. I think we can all agree his arm strength leaves something to be desired. But even with the Goff rookie mistakes he has just as much ability to lead the Rams to win right now as Keenum. And if he's going to go out there and make rookie mistakes and work to learn from them then there is no point in delaying those mistakes 2, 4, 8 or 16 games. Get him in now get him going and get the offense moving forward. Keenum to most of us is just wasting time until the inevitable change of leadership. And the change over that some think is better suited to happen later to us just seems like a failed delaying tactic. Get him out now and learning and hell by week 12 or 14 the offense could be running like a fine tuned engine. We should even with our schedule be at least .500 that late in the season.

Our last 4 games

vs Atlanta
@ Seattle
vs San Francisco
vs Arizona

It sure would be nice having a fine tuned offense going into the home stretch instead of going into them with an offense that was finally turned over to the rookie QB and him go through growing pains then.

 

[Orchid]

Goff has demonstrated he can get the right play called in the huddle then I would expect Goff to start the next game.

But he hasn't.

 

[kurtfaulk]

But he hasn't.

You left out "if".

.

 

[12intheBox]

This may be the booze talking but ...

This is a good thing. We weren't going to dominate with a rookie - we were going to have to put up with his rookie jitters, his rookie mistakes, and his rookie adjustments.

With Case - we can win. Case isn't going to be a dominant force at QB but he can win with this team while Goff comes around.

We get the best of both worlds - that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Orchid]

With Case - we can win. Case isn't going to be a dominant force at QB but he can win with this team while Goff comes around.

Doing anything else ( like playing Goff) would be a slam in the face of the defense and special teams. Goff,, if he has done nothing else, has proven that right know he is not processing info and can not master the center exchange. Something you HAVE to do to get the ball to Gurly where he can do damage.

 

[-X-]

Here's the issue. None of us disagree that Keenum is more mentally prepared today. Where we disagree is how quickly Goff will get "it" by playing.

The majority of us in favor of playing Goff believe he'll have his ups and downs early on. But by struggling through those ups and downs over the first few games, he'll get to where he needs to be to pass Keenum. We don't believe that sitting him on the bench is a substitution for that game experience.

Further, we also believe that we can win even with an up and down Goff over the first quarter of the season. Our schedule isn't easy, but we still have Gurley, the defense, and the special teams. They won us games last year when Foles and Keenum contributed very little. They can do it again.

The reality to many of us (well, our reality) is that Keenum doesn't offer this team much at QB. He won't turn it over often. That's true. But he also is not good at putting the ball in the end-zone. Many of us are willing to trade rookie mistakes for points and improvement as the year goes on. Why? Because we believe that Goff can continuously improve during his rookie season and put us in the position to do some damage by the time the playoffs roll around.

Reasonable minds can disagree on that. But that's where we stand. Basically, Keenum gives us a better chance to win game 1, but playing Goff gives us a better chance to win over the entire 16 game schedule. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

That's fair and reasonable, but you left out the possible negative consequences of starting him early and letting him find his way. Defenses are gonna TEE off on him early because they (and their coordinators) know that he's ill equipped to deal with that kind of assault and they know he won't be able to think on the fly or make the correct sight adjustments this early. If throwing away a few games due to those mistakes is cool, and risking the possibility of destroying his confidence early is cool, then by all means. Let him play. I'm just not into that and I agree with the approach that's being taken with him at this time. Not because I'm Pro-Fisher (because I'm really not), but because I've seen what can happen if things go south early.

Is what it is though. I really don't care one way or the other if he starts or sits. It's entirely out of my control.

 

[Orchid]

hat's fair and reasonable, but you left out the possible negative consequences of starting him early and letting him find his way. Defenses are gonna TEE off on him early because they (and their coordinators) know that he's ill equipped to deal with that kind of assault and they know he won't be able to think on the fly or make the correct sight adjustments this early. If throwing away a few games due to those mistakes is cool, and risking the possibility of destroying his confidence early is cool, then by all means. Let him play. I'm just not into that and I agree with the approach that's being taken with him at this time. Not because I'm Pro-Fisher (because I'm really not), but because I've seen what can happen if things go south early.

Is what it is though. I really don't care one way or the other if he starts or sits. It's entirely out of my control.

I had 500 word reply but your response was better and more direct.

 

[jrry32]

That's fair and reasonable, but you left out the possible negative consequences of starting him early and letting him find his way. Defenses are gonna TEE off on him early because they (and their coordinators) know that he's ill equipped to deal with that kind of assault and they know he won't be able to think on the fly or make the correct sight adjustments this early. If throwing away a few games due to those mistakes is cool, and risking the possibility of destroying his confidence early is cool, then by all means. Let him play. I'm just not into that and I agree with the approach that's being taken with him at this time. Not because I'm Pro-Fisher (because I'm really not), but because I've seen what can happen if things go south early.

Is what it is though. I really don't care one way or the other if he starts or sits. It's entirely out of my control.

I would accept that risk. Goff is mentally tough. If he can't handle it, he won't be successful in the NFL. Mental toughness is a necessary trait.

 

[Florida_Ram]

Here's the issue. None of us disagree that Keenum is more mentally prepared today. Where we disagree is how quickly Goff will get "it" by playing.

The majority of us in favor of playing Goff believe he'll have his ups and downs early on. But by struggling through those ups and downs over the first few games, he'll get to where he needs to be to pass Keenum. We don't believe that sitting him on the bench is a substitution for that game experience.

Further, we also believe that we can win even with an up and down Goff over the first quarter of the season. Our schedule isn't easy, but we still have Gurley, the defense, and the special teams. They won us games last year when Foles and Keenum contributed very little. They can do it again.

The reality to many of us (well, our reality) is that Keenum doesn't offer this team much at QB. He won't turn it over often. That's true. But he also is not good at putting the ball in the end-zone. Many of us are willing to trade rookie mistakes for points and improvement as the year goes on. Why? Because we believe that Goff can continuously improve during his rookie season and put us in the position to do some damage by the time the playoffs roll around.

Reasonable minds can disagree on that. But that's where we stand. Basically, Keenum gives us a better chance to win game 1, but playing Goff gives us a better chance to win over the entire 16 game schedule. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

jrry this post speaks volumes to the majority you're referring to. We will cheer and support Keenum for as long as he starts but we believe JG through the ups and downs will learn and produce results on the job in the regular season games and still give the Rams a chance to win.

We cannot guarantee this of course but until we see different with our own eyes, we will not be detoured by sports social media and those that think we are blinded by the infatuation of holding firm with this view.

@jrry32 you are a true champion for Jared Goff

 

[Orchid]

@jrry32 you are a true champion for Jared Goff

Yes, you are Goff's champion.

 

[Florida_Ram]

Yes, you are Goff's champion.

And you will be sooner than later Orchid my Rams brother..

 

[-X-]

Goff is mentally tough.

Although you can't possibly know that, I hope you're right. The reason you can't possibly know that is because (a) you're not him and (b) he hasn't been in a situation with this much pressure and against this much high-level opposing talent. Matt Leinart was pretty mentally tough until Wil Witherspoon broke his collar bone and he sat on the sidelines looking like someone murdered his entire family. He would come back after that but he was never the same.

DISCLAIMER: I'M NOT COMPARING LEINART AND GOFF IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM EXCEPT TO SAY THAT MENTAL TOUGHNESS CAN BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU.

 

[Orchid]

And you will be sooner than later Orchid my Rams brother..

Maybe.... but not this year.

 

[SteezyEndo]

I would accept that risk. Goff is mentally tough. Mental toughness is a necessary trait.

That is very bold jrry. Very. If he has mental toughness then he shouldn't mind sitting out hit the books and learn.

 

[Florida_Ram]

Defenses are gonna TEE off on him early because they (and their coordinators) know that he's ill equipped to deal with that kind of assault and they know he won't be able to think on the fly or make the correct sight adjustments this early. If throwing away a few games due to those mistakes is cool, and risking the possibility of destroying his confidence early is cool, then by all means. Let him play. I'm just not into that and I agree with the approach that's being taken with him at this time. Not because I'm Pro-Fisher (because I'm really not), but because I've seen what can happen if things go south early.

Having seen all of his games his Freshman and Sophomore year -X- he was TEE'd off on and sacked like a rag-doll numerous times. This young man didn't flinch he kept getting up and just got better and showed mental toughness like a Brett Favre. His O-LINE was pathetic in pass pro and he didn't have a Todd Gurley to keep the Defense on their heels.

Does this guarantee he will handle an NFL beating? No but is the Rams starting O-Line going to be as horrendous as his Cal O-Line was in pass-pro? If the Rams O-Line is going to struggle in that area, I'm all about keeping JG on the bench this year. If they show above average pass-pro after a few games of protecting Keenum, I'm all for putting him out there asap. Now if Keenum is on fire and lighting up NFL secondaries, obviously he stays the starter. For me its all about how well Keenum is doing and Wins.

A question for you -X-? If CK is playing barely avg and the Rams are loosing every other game because of the passing game, are you in favor of giving JG the reins to see what he brings to the table?

 

[Florida_Ram]

Maybe.... but not this year.

A question Orchid.. Have you seen every one of JG's college snaps from his Freshman and Sophomore seasons? Or have you just seen his Junior year and his preseason snaps with the Rams? Doesn't make me right or wrong because I'm just a message board coach like everyone else. But it is important to me to know this when fellow Rams fans have a strong view on JG and why they have certain views that I can respect either way.....

 

[-X-]

A question for you -X-? If CK is playing barely avg and the Rams are loosing every other game because of the passing game, are you in favor of giving JG the reins to see what he brings to the table?

If he's ready, sure. I'd even want to see Mannion in that situation.
What I'm not in favor of is going from bad to worse just because a guy was drafted in a certain spot.
Having played in the past myself, I can tell you I absolutely hate the idea of entitlement.

Earn it.