Jared Goff 2016

[ProGen]

I am very surprised at all the faith some members are showing in Case as a starting QB. I just cannot see how he scares good teams. Todd needs a QB with a legitimate arm he can play with. He shouldn't have to be the entire offense. There's no point in Tavon running deep if his QB cannot find him or reach him with his [the QB's] arm. I doubt it will take very long before EVERYONE sees Case's limitations and how he is holding back the team.

Still, Jerad has a steep learning curve ahead of him and a lot of offensive wrinkles to get used to. Chris Weinke should be as close to a roommate to Jerad as a coach can be.

The belief in Case is mind boggling and backed by very little logic or past experience....but, that's fandom and faith for you. We all know we have one of the worst starting QB's in the league and very little has changed from last year's 31st offense to now, apart from a lengthy off-season to wash away last year's offensive nightmares and to renew fresh faith for this year.

The lack of a gamer at QB is the biggest detriment a team can face and we will have to do all the little things right to stay in games and stand a chance of bettering. 500. All the usual suspects...3rd down/red zone efficiency, turnover differential etc. will need to be on point.

Hopefully we can muster up good enough QB play to keep defenses honest so that Gurley can tear shit up and a fresh lunged D can wreck havoc.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

We don't know shit until the real games start. Maybe case has improved, maybe he hasn't. My hope is that he has because I want them to win. If he looks like the same guy at the whiners and Goff has demonstrated he can get the right play called in the huddle then I would expect Goff to start the next game.

.

 

[Ballhawk]

Keenum isn't good enough to be a starter and Goff clearly isn't far enough along to start, so it sounds like everyone is making an argument for starting Mannion?

 

[dieterbrock]

No, I said it didn't hurt him. Starting him day one may have had different results.

Or it may not have. Fact is in Rodgers rookie year, Favre threw 29 INT and the team went 4-12. We'll never know if Rodgers could have done better
The implication that sitting on the bench is why Rodgers is great just isn't true. He's great an IMO would have been had he started day 1

 

[Loyal]

Or it may not have. Fact is in Rodgers rookie year, Favre threw 29 INT and the team went 4-12. We'll never know if Rodgers could have done better
The implication that sitting on the bench is why Rodgers is great just isn't true. He's great an IMO would have been had he started day 1

Thanks. I have been thinking the same that Rodgers would have had learning pains, but would have done no worse than 4 wins, most likely. I was too lazy to look up stats from back then, so again, thanks.

We are not exactly in the same position as that Packers team. We have a game manager QB that does enough to facilitate the offense, using Gurley as the featured weapon. Without that weapon, Case lost in frisco, otherwise his winning record last year would have been more impressive (no way we should have lost in frisco with Gurley). Will we have another dimension with a franchise QB like Goff should be? Yes, of course. Goff is learning, which you can tell if a person is being honest and isn't driven with the need to say, "I told you so", about the Goff vs Wentz outcome. We will be a winning team with Keenum, just not as dynamic as with a more ready Goff will be. I see 9 wins with a SOLID Oline, Gurley and Game Manager Keenum, and NO FREAKIN JARED COOK. Not to mention a healthy Quinn and Donald dominating on the Dline. We will be tough to beat this year, imo....No need to throw away the season starting Goff immediately, because we are not that cr@ppy Packers team that Rodgers was on as a rookie....

 

[FrankenRam]

I am very surprised at all the faith some members are showing in Case as a starting QB. I just cannot see how he scares good teams. Todd needs a QB with a legitimate arm he can play with. He shouldn't have to be the entire offense. There's no point in Tavon running deep if his QB cannot find him or reach him with his [the QB's] arm. I doubt it will take very long before EVERYONE sees Case's limitations and how he is holding back the team.

Still, Jerad has a steep learning curve ahead of him and a lot of offensive wrinkles to get used to. Chris Weinke should be as close to a roommate to Jerad as a coach can be.

And some people are equally surprised at the Throw-Goff-To-The-Wolves mentality other forum members are taking....because 'any experience he gets now will be valuable for him down the road' (or something similar).

And while it's certainly possible that could prove to be true, it's also possible that putting him in now could ruin him if he's truly not ready. We don't know which way that may play out. But the assumption he will only get better as a result of starting now is a dangerous one.

But the bottom line is, Fisher should play and prepare to play, whomever he thinks gives the Rams the best chance of winning the next game. It should not make one lick of difference who 'the future is', or where a player was drafted, or what the Rams gave up to acquire him. It's about winning the next game and (hopefully) getting to play more than 16 games this year. Clearly, he thinks that's Keenum...at least for game one. Might change for game 2, or after the bye....or maybe next yr. Who knows.

I didn't get to watch the game vs the Vikes, but 'The Professor', John Clayton, described Goff's play as 'brutal' on local ESPN radio. And yes, I know that's not going to go over well with the Sunshine & Lollipops crowd, but you're going to be hard-pressed to convince me JC is just some agenda driven know-nothing talking head trying to drive up ratings.

 

[-X-]

The belief in Case is mind boggling and backed by very little logic or past experience....but, that's fandom and faith for you.

I believe that's a bit of a non-sequitur. My fandom and faith has nothing to do with my 'belief' in Case. But if you want to discuss logic or past experience, we can do that now. Logic dictates that as of right now, Jared Goff gives this team the best chance to lose the opener. He's hitting on 44% of his passes and has thrown 2 inteceptions while putting the ball on the ground 3 times. He looks overwhelmed and it shows. Past experience dictates that quarterbacks from college who run a no-huddle offense and take snaps exclusively from shotgun have a rather large adjustment period that needs to be navigated before they can be given the *privilege* (not right) to run an NFL offense. Unless of course they can show in camp, preseason, and practice that they're immensely intelligent and talented enough that they can drastically shorten that adjustment period. Goff hasn't done that. There's over 60 years of NFL *experience*, collectively, on this coaching staff that knows how to evaluate a players' readiness and ability to execute.

Of the two (Case and Jared), Case is the only one who - again, at this time - knows where every receiver on offense is *supposed* to be on any given play. He's the only one who can look at a defensive alignment and know where the pressure is likely to be coming from. He's the only one who can look at a defense and know where the one-on-one is likely to occur. And he's also the only one who is calm enough to see the ball into his hands before looking up field, despite knowing a blitz is coming his way. This is because he knows this offense, has seen 100X the amount of NFL defenses, and is 100X less likely to turn the ball over. Would it be logical to lose the first game or two or five by putting in a quarterback who's less equipped to drive an offense simply because he's more talented? What does that say about your faith and your fandom?

There's a difference between more talented and better.

Goff is more talented. Right now, Keenum is simply better.

When Goff becomes better than Keenum, Goff will become the quarterback.

 

[jap]

And some people are equally surprised at the Throw-Goff-To-The-Wolves mentality other forum members are taking....because 'any experience he gets now will be valuable for him down the road' (or something similar).

And while it's certainly possible that could prove to be true, it's also possible that putting him in now could ruin him if he's truly not ready. We don't know which way that may play out. But the assumption he will only get better as a result of starting now is a dangerous one.

. . . which is why I advocate a balancing point: play Goff when he becomes the best chance to win. The coaches know that better than us. Apparently, Fish is leaning heavily on Chris Weinke to gauge Jared's development. This can be tricky and requires honest assessment on all sides.

However, NFL DC's are well aware of Case's limitations, and they will! crowd the box against the Gurley Man and dare case to them their schemes with his inadequate arm. If the Horns want to compete past the regular season, they need to get Jared up to speed as quickly as possible. The aim is to have the ability to stretch the field passing with Jared and running with the RB's as much as possible since that makes the Horns so much more difficult to defend.

 

[OC_Ram]

Thanks X i think you have summed up what 8 pages of post could not.

 

[-X-]

However, NFL DC's are well aware of Case's limitations, and they will! crowd the box against the Gurley Man and dare case to them their schemes with his inadequate arm. If the Horns want to compete past the regular season, they need to get Jared up to speed as quickly as possible. The aim is to have the ability to stretch the field passing with Jared and running with the RB's as much as possible since that makes the Horns so much more difficult to defend.

Yeah, but if a defense drops 8 or 9 in the box with the intent to defend the run while pressuring the QB, there isn't enough time to stretch the field. In those instances, that you just described, you'll almost always see screens and quick slants as a counter. You won't see many (if any) 7 step drops in the face of that kind of pressure. And honestly, that's what every defense is gonna do if Jared starts the first few games. They're gonna want to rattle him and put his ass in the dirt. He's simply not ready for that.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I believe that's a bit of a non-sequitur. My fandom and faith has nothing to do with my 'belief' in Case. But if you want to discuss logic or past experience, we can do that now. Logic dictates that as of right now, Jared Goff gives this team the best chance to lose the opener. He's hitting on 44% of his passes and has thrown 2 inteceptions while putting the ball on the ground 3 times. He looks overwhelmed and it shows. Past experience dictates that quarterbacks from college who run a no-huddle offense and take snaps exclusively from shotgun have a rather large adjustment period that needs to be navigated before they can be given the *privilege* (not right) to run an NFL offense. Unless of course they can show in camp, preseason, and practice that they're immensely intelligent and talented enough that they can drastically shorten that adjustment period. Goff hasn't done that. There's over 60 years of NFL *experience*, collectively, on this coaching staff that knows how to evaluate a players' readiness and ability to execute.

Of the two (Case and Jared), Case is the only one who - again, at this time - knows where every receiver on offense is *supposed* to be on any given play. He's the only one who can look at a defensive alignment and know where the pressure is likely to be coming from. He's the only one who can look at a defense and know where the one-on-one is likely to occur. And he's also the only one who is calm enough to see the ball into his hands before looking up field, despite knowing a blitz is coming his way. This is because he knows this offense, has seen 100X the amount of NFL defenses, and is 100X less likely to turn the ball over. Would it be logical to lose the first game or two or five by putting in a quarterback who's less equipped to drive an offense simply because he's more talented? What does that say about your faith and your fandom?

There's a difference between more talented and better.

Goff is more talented. Right now, Keenum is simply better.

When Goff becomes better than Keenum, Goff will become the quarterback.

 

[-X-]

 

[jap]

Yeah, but if a defense drops 8 or 9 in the box with the intent to defend the run while pressuring the QB, there isn't enough time to stretch the field. In those instances, that you just described, you'll almost always see screens and quick slants as a counter. You won't see many (if any) 7 step drops in the face of that kind of pressure. And honestly, that's what every defense is gonna do if Jared starts the first few games. They're gonna want to rattle him and put his ass in the dirt. He's simply not ready for that.

That's why the Horns need to anticipate what's coming and design plays to counter the expected defensive response. Jared needs to get to achieve a certain minimal comfort zone as a leader so he can adjust plays at the LOS if needed. Nothing is gonna be easy, and things must be hurried if the Horns wanna be contenders in January.

 

[-X-]

That's why the Horns need to anticipate what's coming and design plays to counter the expected defensive response. Jared needs to get to achieve a certain minimal comfort zone as a leader so he can adjust plays at the LOS if needed. Nothing is gonna be easy, and things must be hurried if the Horns wanna be contenders in January.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. The only problem is that Goff doesn't have the full range of talent necessary to make those adjustments right now. I don't understand why people can't recognize that Keenum is better equipped at this point to make those adjustments. He simply knows more, understands more, and recognizes more. Just because his arm isn't as talented, doesn't mean he isn't more capable of making the right decisions or that he doesn't give the offense a better chance to make things happen. Arm talent is but a fraction of what a QB needs to be successful. And I'm telling you right now, if that's the only thing going for Goff, we're in big, big trouble. I wouldn't try to accelerate his learning curve at the expense of his confidence. Despite what some people think, confidence is more important than a strong arm.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I believe that's a bit of a non-sequitur. My fandom and faith has nothing to do with my 'belief' in Case. But if you want to discuss logic or past experience, we can do that now. Logic dictates that as of right now, Jared Goff gives this team the best chance to lose the opener. He's hitting on 44% of his passes and has thrown 2 inteceptions while putting the ball on the ground 3 times. He looks overwhelmed and it shows. Past experience dictates that quarterbacks from college who run a no-huddle offense and take snaps exclusively from shotgun have a rather large adjustment period that needs to be navigated before they can be given the *privilege* (not right) to run an NFL offense. Unless of course they can show in camp, preseason, and practice that they're immensely intelligent and talented enough that they can drastically shorten that adjustment period. Goff hasn't done that. There's over 60 years of NFL *experience*, collectively, on this coaching staff that knows how to evaluate a players' readiness and ability to execute.

Of the two (Case and Jared), Case is the only one who - again, at this time - knows where every receiver on offense is *supposed* to be on any given play. He's the only one who can look at a defensive alignment and know where the pressure is likely to be coming from. He's the only one who can look at a defense and know where the one-on-one is likely to occur. And he's also the only one who is calm enough to see the ball into his hands before looking up field, despite knowing a blitz is coming his way. This is because he knows this offense, has seen 100X the amount of NFL defenses, and is 100X less likely to turn the ball over. Would it be logical to lose the first game or two or five by putting in a quarterback who's less equipped to drive an offense simply because he's more talented? What does that say about your faith and your fandom?

There's a difference between more talented and better.

Goff is more talented. Right now, Keenum is simply better.

When Goff becomes better than Keenum, Goff will become the quarterback.

And there it is, nice mic dropper minus the, dropping?

Bravo

Good to see El RODpadre back from hiatus

 

[jap]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. The only problem is that Goff doesn't have the full range of talent necessary to make those adjustments right now. I don't understand why people can't recognize that Keenum is better equipped at this point to make those adjustments. He simply knows more, understands more, and recognizes more. Just because his arm isn't as talented, doesn't mean he isn't more capable of making the right decisions or that he doesn't give the offense a better chance to make things happen. Arm talent is but a fraction of what a QB needs to be successful. And I'm telling you right now, if that's the only thing going for Goff, we're in big, big trouble. I wouldn't try to accelerate his learning curve at the expense of his confidence. Despite what some people think, confidence is more important than a strong arm.

Arm talent is definitely not the only thing going for Jared, which is why he is such an intriguing prospect. However, he is supposedly working closely with Chris Weinke who is, again, supposedly gauging his progress with a critical eye.

 

[-X-]

Arm talent is definitely not the only thing going for Jared

You're probably right, and I hope you are, but (like you), I've watched football for 40 years and I've seen some amazing college prospects turn out to be nobodies in the NFL. Despite being super talented, some kids just don't have what it takes to make it at this level. Definitely not saying that's the case with Jared, but you do run the risk of destroying his confidence (in himself) by metaphorically throwing him to the wolves before he's ready. Really all I'm saying is that I don't see it as a mistake or gross negligence on Fisher's part to ease him into the role this year.

 

[ProGen]

I believe that's a bit of a non-sequitur. My fandom and faith has nothing to do with my 'belief' in Case. But if you want to discuss logic or past experience, we can do that now. Logic dictates that as of right now, Jared Goff gives this team the best chance to lose the opener. He's hitting on 44% of his passes and has thrown 2 inteceptions while putting the ball on the ground 3 times. He looks overwhelmed and it shows. Past experience dictates that quarterbacks from college who run a no-huddle offense and take snaps exclusively from shotgun have a rather large adjustment period that needs to be navigated before they can be given the *privilege* (not right) to run an NFL offense. Unless of course they can show in camp, preseason, and practice that they're immensely intelligent and talented enough that they can drastically shorten that adjustment period. Goff hasn't done that. There's over 60 years of NFL *experience*, collectively, on this coaching staff that knows how to evaluate a players' readiness and ability to execute.

Of the two (Case and Jared), Case is the only one who - again, at this time - knows where every receiver on offense is *supposed* to be on any given play. He's the only one who can look at a defensive alignment and know where the pressure is likely to be coming from. He's the only one who can look at a defense and know where the one-on-one is likely to occur. And he's also the only one who is calm enough to see the ball into his hands before looking up field, despite knowing a blitz is coming his way. This is because he knows this offense, has seen 100X the amount of NFL defenses, and is 100X less likely to turn the ball over. Would it be logical to lose the first game or two or five by putting in a quarterback who's less equipped to drive an offense simply because he's more talented? What does that say about your faith and your fandom?

There's a difference between more talented and better.

Goff is more talented. Right now, Keenum is simply better.

When Goff becomes better than Keenum, Goff will become the quarterback.

I was referring to the belief that Case can lead us to a successful season, not the belief that he should not start over Goff. Post clarity was amiss.
I agree with your post/stance that Case should be started and Jared needs to be brought along at a sensible pace. I've stated this before. We need to look after the big time investment as much as possible, not destroy him in more ways than one.

 

[jap]

You're probably right, and I hope you are, but (like you), I've watched football for 40 years and I've seen some amazing college prospects turn out to be nobodies in the NFL. Despite being super talented, some kids just don't have what it takes to make it at this level. Definitely not saying that's the case with Jared, but you do run the risk of destroying his confidence (in himself) by metaphorically throwing him to the wolves before he's ready. Really all I'm saying is that I don't see it as a mistake or gross negligence on Fisher's part to ease him into the role this year.

I don't think Fish is necessarily being negligent at all. I have already stated a few times on other discussion threads that I don't think Jared is ready yet, but that he is close.

 

[-X-]

I don't think Fish is necessarily being negligent at all. I have already stated a few times on other discussion threads that I don't think Jared is ready yet, but that he is close.

Yeah, I know where you stand. I wasn't necessarily singling anyone out in as much as commenting on the general feel of the situation.