Janoris Jenkins

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Angry Ram

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I think Jenkins is about the most under appreciated player on the team. Let me ask this - does PFF call it a missed tackle if you allow yourself to be blocked right out of the play? Do they call it a missed a tackle if you don't make an effort to go get to the ball?

Sure, its noticeable when he gets beat for a big TD - and everyone wants to act like its completely on him when he does - but its often hard to tell where the fault really lies on plays like that. Corners use their safeties as much as they use the sidelines - the miscommunications could be on JJ or they could be on the safety (or both, or the coaches).

One thing that should be clear - all of this blitzing we do - all of the moving the safeties up into the box - you can't do that stuff if you aren't willing to put your corners on islands. The guy didn't become a pro bowl alternate because he isn't good.

I think he's slightly overrated but yeah, I agree with what you said.

PFF is notorious for taking stats and random formulas to come out with rankings. They ruin the game IMO. Sometimes you make plays, sometimes you just get beat. Big freakin whoop.
 

mr.stlouis

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I've seen him make several dam good tackles on some of the leagues best too. We just need the communication errors cleaned up. SF, DAL, and @ARZ long bombs played huge roles in those games.
 

Faceplant

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My goodness there is a lot of love for JJ on here. I do not understand it. I have seen him miss TERRIBLE tackles since he got here, and also give up the deep ball at inexplicable times. My guess would be that he grades out in the lower 3rd in the league for CBs. I loved him his rookie season, because he made plays and I figured he would grow up and stop all the boneheaded mistakes. Problem is, he did the opposite. All the boneheaded plays you want, with very few big plays for the Rams. I know, I know.....it's all <insert your least favorite safety here> fault. JJ played it perfectly.......
 

TheDYVKX

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Back to his fashion sense. Look at this glorious man.

10735225_862008897172669_745189554_n.jpg
 

Blue and Gold

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You dare question PFF's top graders?
top-men-working-on-it-top-men-indiana-jones-lost-ark-ending-1370708259x.gif


Another view of tackles is at Advanced Football Analytics: http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/stats/defensive-players/cornerbacks

JJ is 13th overall in Tackle Factor -- which suggests he makes more tackles than would be expected out of your typical CB. This could be because the Rams pass defense is bad and allows more opportunities for JJ to make a tackle, or it could suggest that even though he might miss a lot of tackles, he's getting himself in position to have hell of a lot more opportunities to make a tackle than your typical CB.

I agree there's a lot more to evaluating tackling ability than the PFF limited view of just trying to count missed tackles -- but even so I think it is clear he needs to improve his tackling. Would love to read a story about how he's committing his offseason to fundamentals -- like tackling technique and not biting on the double move, etc.
This will give you a headache.
http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2010/03/tackle-factor.html
"Tackle Factor"
By Brian Burke
I keep seeing 49ers linebacker Patrick Willis' name listed at the top of defensive player statistics the last few years. He led the league in tackles in 2009 and 2007, and was second in 2008, but does this mean that Willis is really a top player?

Most fans understand that the tackle statistic is not a very good way to measure a defender. Weaker defenses tend to give up longer drives, giving players more opportunities to make tackles. So in a perverse way, more tackles can be a bad thing. If a defensive back has a lot of tackles, it may be because he's being thrown on successfully. Plus, certain positions get more tackles by the nature of team defense. Middle and inside linebackers will naturally have the most tackles by virtue of their role and where they are at the snap. If you scan down the list of the season leaders in tackles, you're likely to see a simple list of each team's central linebacker, assuming he was healthy most of the year. So how can we tell if Patrick Willis is really that good using just tackle information?

An Idea from Baseball

Baseball faced similar problems with defensive statistics. Until recent years, fielding skill was measured solely by the Fielding Percentage stat, which is a player’s number of put-outs and assists divided by his total of put-outs, assists, and errors. It’s basically a player’s “non-error rate.” This is a flawed way of looking at fielding for many reasons. For one thing, you can't make an error if you can't get to the ball.

In 1977 Bill James revolutionized fielding stats with the invention of Range Factor (RF). Say that for the major leagues as a whole, the shortstop position typically accounts for 20% of its team's putouts and assists. Assuming a relatively even distribution of fielding opportunities, a shortstop who creates significantly more than 20% of his team's outs could be considered to have better than average range and skill. And a shortstop who has significantly fewer than 20% could be considered to have below average range and skill. It’s elegantly simple and compellingly useful.

Tackle Factor

(I bet you know where I'm going with this.) What if we looked at the proportion of all 49ers tackles for which Patrick Willis was given credit? San Francisco logged a total of 832 tackles in the 2009 regular season, and Willis got credit for 114, a proportion of 13.7%. Willis is an ILB in a 3-4 scheme, and in 2009 the ILB position in all the NFL’s 3-4 schemes accounted for 21.5% of a team's tackle total. Because there are two ILBs on the field at once, a single ILB could be expected to average half that, or 10.7% of a team's total.

Willis' 13.7% compares very well with his position’s expected tackle rate. His ratio of tackle percentage compared to the expected percentage for his position is 13.7/10.7, or 1.23. In other words, Patrick Willis has a 'Tackle Factor' of 1.23; he makes 23% more tackles than you'd expect from his position, which tells us a lot about his ability to shed blocks, get to a ball carrier, and make a tackle.

To compare Willis to other players we can follow the same process. Redskins MLB London Fletcher notched 95 of Washington's 804 tackles in 15 games last season. Over a full season we could estimate he would have 16/15 * 95 = 101 'season-adjusted' tackles. Fletcher's adjusted share of the Redskin's tackles would be 101/804, or 12.6%. The MLB position in a 4-3 defense averages 11.9% of a team's tackles, making Fletcher's Tackle Factor 1.06.

Shortcomings

There are a number of shortcomings with TF. For starters, it tells us something very different about defensive backs than for linemen and linebackers. Just like total tackles, a weak pass defense would increase the proportion of tackles in the secondary. It still may tell us something about safeties, however. If a safety is making a very high proportion of his team’s tackles it may mean he’s a standout in an otherwise weak defense. We could also modify the stat to count only run plays, which might be even more illuminating.

TF penalizes players who are not every-down defenders. For now, it is adjusted for games played, but not for snaps on the field. Ideally, if we knew how many snaps each player was on the field we’d get a more reliable stat. Because so many players are not every-down defenders, the average TF is not 1.0. But on the other hand, if a player is not worthy of playing every down, that alone tells us something about his ability.

Baseball’s Range Factor suffers from many of the same issues, but it was nevertheless considered a quantum leap forward in defensive statistics. I think TF could also be a step forward despite its flaws. Defensive baseball stats have evolved significantly in the generation since RF was invented, and the concepts Bill James set forth underlie each new development.
 

jrry32

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I watched Janoris shadow Dez Bryant and shut him down this year. Bryant had one big play because Gaines and McLeod both blew their coverages.

I think a lot of people in this fan-base underrate the guy because he gambles. He's a young player. He's not in his prime. We've already seen flashes of greatness. People just need to be more patient...especially with a guy that has played solidly for us.

The tackling can be an issue but I disagree with those claiming Jenkins doesn't want any part of it. The guy will not hesitate to make a hit. He just needs better fundamentals...he has a tendency to drop his head and throw a shoulder into the guy rather than wrap up.

But he made quite a few tackles in space by himself this year against HBs.
 

Ramrasta

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I can never make up my mind on Jenkins. When he is your CB, you just have to know going into the season that he is going to make incredible plays and he is going to miss plays he should have made. If you want consistency, he is not your guy. However, be careful what you wish for, consistency goes two ways.
 

RamFan503

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The tackling can be an issue but I disagree with those claiming Jenkins doesn't want any part of it. The guy will not hesitate to make a hit. He just needs better fundamentals...he has a tendency to drop his head and throw a shoulder into the guy rather than wrap up.

But he made quite a few tackles in space by himself this year against HBs.
This is what I saw on several occasions. The guy actually laid some pretty good hits on RBs this year. I'm not sure that CBs are ever going to be who you want tackling all that much. You want them keeping the ball out of the receiver's hands. He may gamble a bit and get beat by tall receivers but the guy gets some tough assignments and I think he's done quite well with most of them.

And I have seen him as a very willing tackler for a CB. I'm not sure where that criticism even comes from.
 

RamFan503

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I can never make up my mind on Jenkins. When he is your CB, you just have to know going into the season that he is going to make incredible plays and he is going to miss plays he should have made. If you want consistency, he is not your guy. However, be careful what you wish for, consistency goes two ways.
Yeah, haven't we seen CBs that consistently drug down the receiver AFTER he caught the ball? Probably higher rated tacklers though - eh?
 

LesBaker

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I'm not too thrilled with Jenoris.

I just don't think he's a very smart person (sorry, Jenoris).

And, as Ron White says... "you can't fix stupid".

My guess is he'll continue to make mental errors.... and eventually will be upgraded when the opportunity presents itself.

Just my guess.

I agree, he's so stupid I bet he can't even spell his own name. seewhatIdidthere?
 

Athos

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2015 will be an audition of sorts for Tru, JJ, and even Joyner, to prove that the team has the answer at CB longterm. My guess is JJ hits free agency and is offered more than the Rams are willing to pay.

Yesh. Joyner isn't made to play CB longterm, especially a starting CB. He's going to FS imo.

As for Jenks, his tackling form can be piss poor and his massive whiffing gets irritating, but he's still a great cover corner.

Gaines, is, imo, our best COMPLETE CB though.
 

Selassie I

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CB's have to have a very short memory. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. get burned during the course of a season. Especially if he's checking the best WR for the most part. Shit.

@Ramhusker pointed it out earlier. Deion Sanders would flat out avoid contact (and tackles) during his time TERRORIZING QBs.

I'm a Big Fan of Jack Rabbit.

It should be pointed out that he has the best Dreads on the team too btw. So....
 

jjab360

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My goodness there is a lot of love for JJ on here. I do not understand it. I have seen him miss TERRIBLE tackles since he got here, and also give up the deep ball at inexplicable times. My guess would be that he grades out in the lower 3rd in the league for CBs. I loved him his rookie season, because he made plays and I figured he would grow up and stop all the boneheaded mistakes. Problem is, he did the opposite. All the boneheaded plays you want, with very few big plays for the Rams. I know, I know.....it's all <insert your least favorite safety here> fault. JJ played it perfectly.......
What is this, common sense? We'll have none of that here! Despite all of his missed tackles, blown coverages, and big TDs allowed at crucial moments, Janoris is the best CB on this roster and don't you dare say otherwise!
 

Dr C. Hill

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I sure wouldn't mind having him and Gaines starting for the next decade or so. I hope the Rams don't gamble on their end, and lock him up sooner rather than later. He still has a few things that need to be fixed, but he has all pro ability, and we have all seen it!
 

jrry32

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What is this, common sense? We'll have none of that here! Despite all of his missed tackles, blown coverages, and big TDs allowed at crucial moments, Janoris is the best CB on this roster and don't you dare say otherwise!

Yep, the opinion you have is "common sense" and those that feel differently just don't know what they're talking about. That's a great way to have an open-minded conversation and consider the perspectives of others...by marginalizing what they have to say.
 

jjab360

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Yep, the opinion you have is "common sense" and those that feel differently just don't know what they're talking about. That's a great way to have an open-minded conversation and consider the perspectives of others...by marginalizing what they have to say.
I've tried it the other way, didn't really get that far. A lot of people just seem to have this perception of Janoris that isn't swayed no matter how many statistics or observations you throw at them. I'm willing to be open-minded if you are, though, what about Janoris is so great that it makes up for his aforementioned flaws?
 

jrry32

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I've tried it the other way, didn't really get that far. A lot of people just seem to have this perception of Janoris that isn't swayed no matter how many statistics or observations you throw at them. I'm willing to be open-minded if you are, though, what about Janoris is so great that it makes up for his aforementioned flaws?

Fluid hips, great feet, ball-skills, playmaking ability, willingness to stick his nose in, physicality despite his smaller stature, overall movement skills, speed, and ability to anticipate routes.

What issues do I have with him? Tackling form, his propensity to gamble, his over-aggressiveness that gets him burned by double moves, and his lack of football IQ at times. His height is also a hindrance.
 

12intheBox

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Can you imagine how hard it is to be a cornerback in the NFL? Think about the size and speed of NFL WRs. Consider how complicated an NFL route tree can be. Remember that the other team has coaches, assistant coaches, quality control coaches, and on down the line who are doing little more than trying to fool you. You have to run backwards not knowing where the receiver is going, keeping up with a 4.4 monster who is running forwards and knows exactly where he is going. NFL QBs can throw the ball on a rope into a 2x2 box from 40 yards away - and if you so much as lay a hand on the guy - you will flagged for the entire distance of the play. But thats not all - you also have to bring down a 225 lb running back in open space who is looking to use the 40 lbs that he has on you plus his forward momentum to completely truck you - or is he going to juke you? Hard to tell.

As fans - do we notice when a corner has such good coverage that the QB doesn't even attempt the throw? Is there a PFF stat for that? Is that a valuable guy to have out there even if there isn't?

The kid can play. Don't believe me? No hard feelings. His next contract ought to tell us what professional football player personnel departments think of his value. I wonder how often his PFF rankings will be brought up during his contract negotiations.