Is Sam Bradford better than Nick Foles?

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dieterbrock

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does it feel strange after all these years?

haha, just ribbin ya.

.
It's a fair ribbing on here for those that don't know me. But for those that do, They can attest to the fact that I was one of the biggest bradford supporters out there.
Everyone has their threshold where a player crosses it and he's given up on. I crossed it earlier then some. No big deal.
I like our present qb and will support him 100%.
 

kurtfaulk

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No you can't. They're solid, indisputable measures of talent evaluation.
This is Kellen Clemens. Best QB in the world. 140 QB Rating, with a 15 YPA.

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I stand corrected.

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-X-

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and I think Foles will improve, he's at 40% now .. . it will be fun to see if he can get to 45-50%
Oh I have no doubt he'll get better. Just a matter of developing timing with these receivers. Gonna be tough early on though, because they all have different levels of speed, acceleration, and burst out of their breaks. If I had to guess which receiver he'd develop an early rapport with, I'd have to say Cook. He's the easiest to time, or so it seems.
 

dieterbrock

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No you can't. They're solid, indisputable measures of talent evaluation.
This is Kellen Clemens. Best QB in the world. 140 QB Rating, with a 15 YPA.

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Yeah that's up there with the epic Sam Bradford performance against pitiful Houston
12/16 117 yards 3 Td and 134 rating.
 

Faceplant

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No you can't. They're solid, indisputable measures of talent evaluation.
This is Kellen Clemens. Best QB in the world. 140 QB Rating, with a 15 YPA.

I see your Clemens and raise you a Hekker...


Hecker.png
 
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-X-

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Yeah that's up there with the epic Sam Bradford performance against pitiful Houston
12/16 117 yards 3 Td and 134 rating.
Did I offend you or something while I was making a point about stats in general?
I could have just as easily said this:

This is Tom Brady. Worst QB in the world. 52 QB Rating, with a 5 YPA.

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RamseyF

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Yeah that's up there with the epic Sam Bradford performance against pitiful Houston
12/16 117 yards 3 Td and 134 rating.

what is weird is that Houston's defense was #1 against the pass at the time, the lost to Rams, then the Chiefs moved teh ball, then a bye, After the bye their defense fell apart.

upload_2015-3-20_19-2-34.png
 

LesBaker

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http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2015/03/pro-football-focuss-quarterback-deep.html

For almost a decade the Pro Football Focus website has been gaining in popularity and in credibility. ESPN The Magazine recently published an article detailing it'sgrowth and also announced a partnership with PFF for this free agency season in ranking the available players.

However, today is PFF deep passing leaders, which is featured as one of the "signature statistics" in the subscription section of their website. To get the full list and the year-by-year leaders of this an many other exclusive fans will have to sign for their "Premium stats".

Pro Football Focus defines their deep passing percentage as "Quarterback Deep Passing: The ability to successfully throw the deep ball is one that not all quarterbacks possess. The numbers here are all derived from passing attempts targeted 20 yards or more downfield." And what makes it unique is that they take away the element of dropped passes. If a quarterback throws the ball on the money and it is dropped, the scouts at PFF note that and don't count it against the accuracy of the passer.

To be able to include some of the recent draftees Pro Football Journal looked at the past five seasons worth of this signature statistic and compiled them. This list includes the top fifty most accurate deep passers who threw at least 54 passes twenty yards or more downfield from 2010-2014 (five seasons).

Source: Pro Football Focus. Graphic by PFJ

Derek Carr, who threw 71 such passes, ranks last. Teddy Bridgewater fell short of fifty attempts, but will likely debut high next year if he repeats his 46.3% rookie season. The year-to-year stalwarts such as Eli Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton Manning are at or near the top in attempts. Russell Wilson, Michael Vick, Sam Bradford, Matt Schaub are among those in the middle in attempts, and Carr and E.J. Manuel have among the fewest for those just beginning their career. Some out-of-football quarterbacks still had enough attempts to qualify are Tavaris Jackson and Tim Tebow.

Brian Hoyer and Matt Moore had 88 and 89 deep passing attempts, respectively, since 2010 and were usually on the mark. They are the only two in the top thirteen who had fewer than 100 attempts at deep passes.

And to those who watch the sport, it is no surprise that Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees top the list. They are ones who have a scheme that allows those shots, receivers who can help it happen and protection that holds up.

A couple of surprises may Ben Roethlishberger and Joe Flacco ranking 3oth and 31st. Perhaps they take enough deep shots to be memorable but the misses are not burned into memory because if most fans were asked they may, based on recollection, rank both the rangy quarterbacks in the upper-tier of throwing deep.

Well that's certainly not something I want to hang my hopes on. Considering his overall stats.

So you can see what I mean right?
 

RamseyF

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Well that's certainly not something I want to hang my hopes on. Considering his overall stats.

So you can see what I mean right?

not sure . .. that was only posted to show another side of that sharpfootballanalytics thing. That one used just stats and as X said, it was wordy and charty. nerd stuff

so, the other one was about Aaron Rogers . . .but it did show a lot of QBs. So it was neither positive or negative. But if that guy wanted to make points with YPA, then he could look into two things: First, look at the PFF talent levels. Red recievers, really red offensive line . . .and still it seems Bradford was a green passer three of four years. Second, even with those red (negative talent levels) it seem Bradford shows okay in deep passing . . .so one dude, using stats show Bradford to be awful. Yet another site, just posts the stats without making cfomments and they show bad talent at oline and WR and still fairly positive resutls for Bradford.

So, that's why I cannto see what you mean. If I can, I try and look at all sides, not just one. But that's me. And anyway, Bradford is gone .. . I am actually more interested in Foles and how he will do and if his talent levels were able to help him excel in 2013.
 

LesBaker

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2012
WRs = positive (green)
TEs = positive (green)
Oline = negative (red)
QB = positive (green)
RBs = negative (red)

View attachment 5756

Is it worth discussing that Bradford may have influenced many of those negative rankings with his play?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the 2nd and 3rd string QB both played better in terms of completion % and YPA?

At what point does Bradford ever take the blame in your opinion? Or is it always the same "he never had an OL, and he never had WR's". Oddly guys in the same boat making a tenth of the money managed to do as well or better.
 

jrry32

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Is it worth discussing that Bradford may have influenced many of those negative rankings with his play?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the 2nd and 3rd string QB both played better in terms of completion % and YPA?

At what point does Bradford ever take the blame in your opinion? Or is it always the same "he never had an OL, and he never had WR's". Oddly guys in the same boat making a tenth of the money managed to do as well or better.

No. Because none of them played in 2012.

You'll have to remind me when those guys managed to do as well or better.
 

RamseyF

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Is it worth discussing that Bradford may have influenced many of those negative rankings with his play?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the 2nd and 3rd string QB both played better in terms of completion % and YPA?

At what point does Bradford ever take the blame in your opinion? Or is it always the same "he never had an OL, and he never had WR's". Oddly guys in the same boat making a tenth of the money managed to do as well or better.
I dunno. what did Brandon Gibson and Amendola and DX do after they left Rams and had a "decent" Qb?

Which of the olinemen went elsewhere and were good? Pro Bowls? Many of them went to old folks home..
I just think your point is off-base. You want to blame the quarterback for Jason Smith or Jason Brown or Goldberg?

It was the QB who made those linemen and recievers suck? And three of the four years Sam is a postive grade for passing. So a postive graded quarterback brought all those guys into the "red'?

Really?
 

RamseyF

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No. Because none of them played in 2012.

You'll have to remind me when those guys managed to do as well or better.
I posted the same thing. I hear Oji-whatever is an all-pro wrestler . . .I wonder what happend to some of those guys. Maybe in 2015 Amendola and Gibson will make the Pro Bowl with Brady . . .
 

jrry32

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I dunno. what did Brandon Gibson and Amendola and DX do after they left Rams and had a "decent" Qb?

Which of the olinemen went elsewhere and were good? Pro Bowls? Many of them went to old folks home..
I just think your point is off-base. You want to blame the quarterback for Jason Smith or Jason Brown or Goldberg?

It was the QB who made those linemen and recievers suck? And three of the four years Sam is a postive grade for passing. So a postive graded quarterback brought all those guys into the "red'?

Really?

Alexander played well with Rivers...when he was healthy. Of course, that didn't last long.
 

-X-

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Is it worth discussing that Bradford may have influenced many of those negative rankings with his play?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the 2nd and 3rd string QB both played better in terms of completion % and YPA?

At what point does Bradford ever take the blame in your opinion? Or is it always the same "he never had an OL, and he never had WR's". Oddly guys in the same boat making a tenth of the money managed to do as well or better.
You're comparing different years, and it's a widely accepted notion that Bradford should have done quite well with the 2014 team. If you want to go back to the year where he was replaced with Kellen Clemens, you get this.

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Not a huge disparaging difference, I'll grant you that. But it's a big enough difference to notice. That's not where it should all end, however. Like any other evaluation, you look at their individual play in terms of the decisions they make, the throws they're able to make, how they react to pressure, etc. You probably won't find many posts by me blaming Clemens for bad play, because I recognize that he, too, was hindered by the teams he faced, the routes that were being run, and things like that. The effect a poor offense has on a quarterback should be amply demonstrated by the 2009 season. Marc Bulger (like him or hate him) was MILES better than Boller and Null, and yet they all played like shit in that offense.
 

jrry32

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I see a huge difference between Bradford and Clemens in the stats there...and an even bigger one in their play.
 

RamseyF

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Alexander played well with Rivers...when he was healthy. Of course, that didn't last long.

good point. I looked it up, his best "grade" was 2011 . .. slight ahead of his 2012 season with SD.
 

-X-

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I see a huge difference between Bradford and Clemens in the stats there...and an even bigger one in their play.
Depends on what you focus on (stats), and we've seen only parts of it used by different sides of the debate.

The record
The TD/INT ratio
Total Yards
YPG
YPA
QB Rating

All I have to do is watch them play to know who the better QB is, but that's not an acceptable answer to those who dislike Bradford.