Is Mannion the best QB on the roster right now?

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FRO

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Just admit it, a lot of you arguing in this thread are super bored and can't wait until the real games start. Just relax and we'll see how things play out. Let's hope either Goff or Mannion or both turn out to be great QBs and lets finally have a winning season for once.
 

Dxmissile

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A deep ball is generally defined as 20+ yards or 21+ yards. By your logic, Mannion's TD to Reynolds against the Chargers wasn't a deep ball. The line of scrimmage was at the 38, and Reynolds caught it at the 10.
He caught it at like the 7 it took him 5 steps to get in the end zone. So it wasn't a deep ball cause I consider the ball traveling 30 yards or more a deep ball. So I will definitely take that.
 

Dxmissile

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How I feel at the end of the day this is all opinion none of our arguments are based on fact at least right now. Look if Goff turns out to be as great as y'all say I will spray paint his name on my ass and post it on here
 

RamsCardsJazz

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I think all Goff needs to be this year is average. If he stinks up the joint, it is Warner/Bulger all over again, minus the success.
 

jrry32

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He caught it at like the 7 it took him 5 steps to get in the end zone. So it wasn't a deep ball cause I consider the ball traveling 30 yards or more a deep ball. So I will definitely take that.

I watched the video as I typed the response. He caught it at the 10. At best, you could argue the 9. Regardless, it wasn't 30+ yards. Point I'm making is that 30+ yard throws aren't that common in today's NFL. For example, Tom Brady only attempted 18 passes of 31+ yards last year (completing 5 of them). Aaron Rodgers attempted 25. He completed 6. Combining the numbers of Rodgers and Brady, they completed 11 passes that traveled 31+ yards in the air last year. That's not even 1 per game when you combine the two of them.
 

-X-

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How I feel at the end of the day this is all opinion none of our arguments are based on fact at least right now. Look if Goff turns out to be as great as y'all say I will spray paint his name on my ass and post it on here
Be glad his last name isn't Fister.
 

bluecoconuts

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lol did you really just quote me from something from a practice game that actually lead to a pick 6 because he did stare down the route and made a late throw lol.

Yes, because it's inconsistent. You're doing it again, you're saying that Goff made a mistake by staring down a route but Mannion was good for doing it. It's never good to stare down a route, how can you say you're being objective when you can't even say that Mannion staring down receivers is a bad thing?

When has Goff shown this ability to sense pressure and step up. The guy hasn't even played a full game yet, maybe he did it on one or 2 plays but I would call that an ability just yet. And just because he was able to do it in college in the offense he ran doesn't mean hes able to do it yet. You do know the difference of the offenses they both ran.

Both in college and throughout this preseason. Sensing pressure is something that you mostly have or you don't, if Goff can do it in college most likely he can do it in the NFL. On the other hand if you can't do it in college, it's pretty unlikely you'll be able to do it in the NFL. He showed he can do it in college, and he showed he can do it in the NFL this preseason. Without going back and looking at all the plays last year I can't comment if he did it then as well, but I know he did it this year.

You do have an issue with that pass hate why you called it a bad decision which is crap some plays has a receiver number on it if you like the matchup you throw it to them cAnt believe we're actually debating a touchdown but you wanna quote a pick 6 lol.

I used it as an example of how making the wrong read can still end up with a positive result, just as making the right read can still end up with a negative result. The point is not to look at plays for the result but to look at them for what happened. If you're unable to see a play this way and only focus on the result then you're not effectively breaking down and dissecting tape.

And it's not about the over throws it's about taking shots down field to keep the safeties honest that's what those overthrown balls do and like I also said that you conviently left out was that it also let Mannion gauge the speed of Reynolds because that third pass I was perfect and that's what those misses got you a perfect touchdown strike. It's value in messing up

If all you do is take shots down field and miss then safeties aren't going to be all that worried about your deep ball, you need to show you can connect on those. If Mannion is still trying to gauge Reynolds speed at this point that's a huge issue. Watkins? Sure, he's new, but not Reynolds. Again though, you're showing that you're not looking at it objectively because you criticize Goff for things like this, saying his deep ball is very poor, but you find an excuse for Mannion because he's just "gauging their speed".

The problem is you're going off what you saw from the Raiders believing that's gospel, he faced no pressure and had guys running wide open. That's ok though cause the first half of the Saints game was the same way.

I'm not, I'm going off of specific plays in all three games and practices, where he shows traits that he belongs in this league. You seem to think that we're basing everything off of the Raiders game and I really don't know why, I've referenced the Chargers game more than the Raiders game.

My point still stands I want to see Goff face some adversity because that's the only way we're going to be able to tell what type of Qb he can be.

He went 0-7 with a terrible team who's staff was fired after getting him crushed, and he was breaking down game tape for 12 hours with McVay and helping out rookies during rookie mini camp while most other QB's were doing other things. He spent all summer with some QB gurus to help clean up certain fundamental flaws of his. He came into training camp ready and began taking major steps right off the bat. I'd say that's someone who faced a hell of a lot of adversity (and something that pretty much everyone in the NFL will tell you) and responded like a veteran that can lead this team.

If you're talking about games, he placed plenty of adversity in games, and his defense collapsed. That was a total team collapse, to pin that on Goff would be like pinning it on Keenum or Mannion. That's just dumb. I never saw him sitting on the sidelines with a towel over his head (Newton) or his Helmet on (Manning) pouting, I saw him looking over what was going on and trying to learn.

Leaving receivers out to dry is the new weak arm. It was 2 passes and the first one to Reynolds was a soft hit he just dropped. We just saw a pass from Hundley that got his guy knocked out I guess he left him out to dry too huh. And that play didn't result in a penalty.

I haven't seen the play, but it sounds like he left his receiver out to dry. The fact that you're attempting to just dismiss this fact like it's not a thing shows that you know it's true, know it's a problem, and are attempting to downplay it in hopes others don't pick up on it as well. Mannion has a bad habit of leaving receivers out to dry. This is largely due to the fact that he tends to lock onto a receiver and try to force the ball to them instead of making progressions. It all connects.

So maybe you're just seeing what you wanna see or ignoring stuff. I'm going off of last year REAL games when they count you're going off a quarter of a preseason game.

I'm going off of the most recent things we have, because why wouldn't I? It's a different team, different system, different coach. I'm seeing different things from Goff, he looks more confident, his mechanics are different, progression is there. Why wouldn't I go off of those things? Maybe that's what the issue here, you're basing your opinion of Goff on his play of last year instead of this year. The reason why me and so many are higher on Goff is because we saw his play last year and we see it now and it's worlds better. Preseason or not, he's showing really positive things and growth from last year. If you're never going to look at it that way then there's no point in even debating. You're basing your opinion off of Mannion this year with rose colored glasses and Goff last year. It's apples to oranges man, it's not even a good debate at that point.
 

Dxmissile

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Yes, because it's inconsistent. You're doing it again, you're saying that Goff made a mistake by staring down a route but Mannion was good for doing it. It's never good to stare down a route, how can you say you're being objective when you can't even say that Mannion staring down receivers is a bad thing?



Both in college and throughout this preseason. Sensing pressure is something that you mostly have or you don't, if Goff can do it in college most likely he can do it in the NFL. On the other hand if you can't do it in college, it's pretty unlikely you'll be able to do it in the NFL. He showed he can do it in college, and he showed he can do it in the NFL this preseason. Without going back and looking at all the plays last year I can't comment if he did it then as well, but I know he did it this year.



I used it as an example of how making the wrong read can still end up with a positive result, just as making the right read can still end up with a negative result. The point is not to look at plays for the result but to look at them for what happened. If you're unable to see a play this way and only focus on the result then you're not effectively breaking down and dissecting tape.



If all you do is take shots down field and miss then safeties aren't going to be all that worried about your deep ball, you need to show you can connect on those. If Mannion is still trying to gauge Reynolds speed at this point that's a huge issue. Watkins? Sure, he's new, but not Reynolds. Again though, you're showing that you're not looking at it objectively because you criticize Goff for things like this, saying his deep ball is very poor, but you find an excuse for Mannion because he's just "gauging their speed".



I'm not, I'm going off of specific plays in all three games and practices, where he shows traits that he belongs in this league. You seem to think that we're basing everything off of the Raiders game and I really don't know why, I've referenced the Chargers game more than the Raiders game.



He went 0-7 with a terrible team who's staff was fired after getting him crushed, and he was breaking down game tape for 12 hours with McVay and helping out rookies during rookie mini camp while most other QB's were doing other things. He spent all summer with some QB gurus to help clean up certain fundamental flaws of his. He came into training camp ready and began taking major steps right off the bat. I'd say that's someone who faced a hell of a lot of adversity (and something that pretty much everyone in the NFL will tell you) and responded like a veteran that can lead this team.

If you're talking about games, he placed plenty of adversity in games, and his defense collapsed. That was a total team collapse, to pin that on Goff would be like pinning it on Keenum or Mannion. That's just dumb. I never saw him sitting on the sidelines with a towel over his head (Newton) or his Helmet on (Manning) pouting, I saw him looking over what was going on and trying to learn.



I haven't seen the play, but it sounds like he left his receiver out to dry. The fact that you're attempting to just dismiss this fact like it's not a thing shows that you know it's true, know it's a problem, and are attempting to downplay it in hopes others don't pick up on it as well. Mannion has a bad habit of leaving receivers out to dry. This is largely due to the fact that he tends to lock onto a receiver and try to force the ball to them instead of making progressions. It all connects.



I'm going off of the most recent things we have, because why wouldn't I? It's a different team, different system, different coach. I'm seeing different things from Goff, he looks more confident, his mechanics are different, progression is there. Why wouldn't I go off of those things? Maybe that's what the issue here, you're basing your opinion of Goff on his play of last year instead of this year. The reason why me and so many are higher on Goff is because we saw his play last year and we see it now and it's worlds better. Preseason or not, he's showing really positive things and growth from last year. If you're never going to look at it that way then there's no point in even debating. You're basing your opinion off of Mannion this year with rose colored glasses and Goff last year. It's apples to oranges man, it's not even a good debate at that point.
lol I said Goff deep ball was terrible because almost every one that he threw last year went out of bounds he didn't give his receiver a chance to make a play on the ball or allow for the potential of a defensive pass interference. That's why I made the comparison.

It's a difference from staring at a receiver for 3 to for seconds to locking in on a receiver and throwing. Goff looks at receivers and decides if he wants to throw it which results in late throws and interceptions which is what happened on the play you quoted me on. That's a big difference.

And if you go back to my other post you would see that I do acknowledge that Mannion stares down his receivers but I specifically said he locked on to a receiver.

And see now you're making stuff up obviously you're not familiar with me or my argument about Goff because if you did you would know that I have NEVER blames Goff for last year but what you just did was discredit the bad play that he had to just blame it all on the coaches and his teammates is a disservice to the team because it's a FACT that the offense got worse with Goff in. Got worse in every category and no it definitely wasn't all him and tbh he played like I expected so I wasn't disappointed. But if you saw him play last year and can tell me that he sensed pressure and made high stake throws then you saw a completely different guy then I did.

You can go off this preseason all day I'm not saying you can't I honestly don't Care but preseason is completely different then regular season that's why I said I wanted to see how he responds to adversity. Because last year he didn't respond well.

Him going out hiring gurus and all that that's fine kudos to him but I want to see it in regular season I want him to get his first win because that's what matters.

You talk about looking at the full picture on the play and yet you're not mentioning the pressure he was facing on those throws he made the best throws that he could while under pressure that's what you want to see as a coach when under pressure do he still gives our WRs a chance to catch the ball. 2 plays and all of a sudden he leaves receivers out to dry lol this is hilarious.

The first time he face some real pressure he throws a interception that's not getting better that's the same Goff. He looks real good when he has a clean pocket but that's any qb the good ones make plays when the pocket isn't clean. And I haven't seen that THIS PRESEASON.

Like I been saying all this time something you might have missed I want Goff to succeed I want him to improve because I'm a fan of this TEAM and I want us to win just because I think a different qb gives us a better chance doesn't mean I don't want Goff to be great if he's starting for us
 

-X-

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That play really just made my point that wasn't serious pressure he was able to set his feet and just throw Kupp was that open. And we have all seen Goff make plays that's not up for debate but he hasn't been able to do it consistently
Meh. Give him a chance. That's an elite throw in the face of pressure.

I'd also suggest you ease up on the "he locks on too much" argument. 100% of the time, we don't know what the play design is, and oftentimes the design is for one player to get the ball with decoys on the field elsewhere. I know this is *only* one example, but it's a pretty good example of him progressing through his reads. He goes X, Z, Y, TE (go), and back to Y before he throws. That's 4 progressions.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLbkeJoUbU
 

Dxmissile

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Meh. Give him a chance. That's an elite throw in the face of pressure.

I'd also suggest you ease up on the "he locks on too much" argument. 100% of the time, we don't know what the play design is, and oftentimes the design is for one player to get the ball with decoys on the field elsewhere. I know this is *only* one example, but it's a pretty good example of him progressing through his reads. He goes X, Z, Y, TE (go), and back to Y before he throws. That's 4 progressions.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLbkeJoUbU

I don't really mind him doing that in the preseason but people repeating stuff like it's Gospel that's what I'm calling out. Like I said when Goff has a clean pocket he can do that like on that play he had a clean pocket. The only thing I'm saying is I want to see him do it on a consistent basis which is the same thing his coach has said
 

Soul Surfer

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Give him (Goff) a chance.

No can do.

Let''s put him on the practice squad and see if somebody picks him up for his contract so we can free up some cap room.

This is the NFL, (not for long).

We don't have any time for development or coaching.
 

-X-

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I don't really mind him doing that in the preseason but people repeating stuff like it's Gospel that's what I'm calling out. Like I said when Goff has a clean pocket he can do that like on that play he had a clean pocket. The only thing I'm saying is I want to see him do it on a consistent basis which is the same thing his coach has said
I think we all want there to be a clean pocket no matter who the QB is. But if the *only thing* you're saying is that you want to see him do it on a consistent basis, then let's let it play out this year and see how he does with better coaching, a better scheme, and better weapons. He's of course going to make some mistakes along the way, but that shouldn't be the focus. It should be on how he's maturing as a quarterback over the course of a season. Not game by game. And certainly not the past.
 

Zero

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That play really just made my point that wasn't serious pressure he was able to set his feet and just throw Kupp was that open. And we have all seen Goff make plays that's not up for debate but he hasn't been able to do it consistently



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Dxmissile

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I think we all want there to be a clean pocket no matter who the QB is. But if the *only thing* you're saying is that you want to see him do it on a consistent basis, then let's let it play out this year and see how he does with better coaching, a better scheme, and better weapons. He's of course going to make some mistakes along the way, but that shouldn't be the focus. It should be on how he's maturing as a quarterback over the course of a season. Not game by game. And certainly not the past.
lol that's literally all I've been saying. And I have said that I'm willing to let him play. I've stated that numerous times