In the interest of sparking a good debate during this slow season...

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Elmgrovegnome

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Anyone not putting Goff first is assinign. We finally land a franchise QB and you really, honestly think we should


The rules are never going to change in the defenses favor. And most of the teams who have won in the last 20 yrs have good offense, and good defense. But a good offense can make a defense good a lot easier than defense making offense good. Scoring forces the opposition in ways the defense can take advantage of. All I'm saying is the last 20 yrs have proven an offensive team has a better chace at consistent success than the verse.


Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Jacksonville, all disagree. So does Denver from a few years ago. I bet Pittsburgh wished its defense was better against New England last year too. I can't believe so many people here underestimating Donald's impact on the Rams success last year. Watch the Seahawks game in Seattle for a glaring reminder. Watch any game for that matter. Even in games where the defense was struggling a bit, Aaron never was. He is always making impactful plays, and is always setting the bar for his teammates. He is a star player. It would be like Pittsburgh letting Antonio Brown go. Or Denver letting Chris Johnson go, or like Seattle allowing Thomas to leave a few years ago. Philly regretted letting Reggie White leave town.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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I will add one more thing here for perspective. If both Todd and Aaron hit free agency, which one gets the bigger contract and the most bidders?

Donald and it wouldn't be close.
 

ausmurp

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I will add one more thing here for perspective. If both Todd and Aaron hit free agency, which one gets the bigger contract and the most bidders?

Donald and it wouldn't be close.

You're right but when was the last time a team dished that out won a SB?
 

ausmurp

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Teams will pay Donald way more but the teams that have the cap to do so will not be championship calibur teams. Which to me just proves it's the wrong thing to do. But yes they would still do it. There's more to that equation than just winning though. Just signing Donald on a bad team will increase their profit.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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You're right but when was the last time a team dished that out won a SB?


Most of the better teams can't afford to pay what bad teams could. So your question may have to go all the way back to Green Bay and Reggie White. Recently, it is a different story. Miami was in no position to win when they got Suh. Their QB hasn't been good enough, and they had coaching changes too. That team was never close. Then you have Albert Haynesworth and Washington. Haynesworth didn't practice, hated his coaches, and kept running to Snyder for pampering. Plus the Skins weren't Superbowl contenders.

Now consider this Rams team and their current coaching staff and roster. It's night and day, compared to those previously mentioned teams. With upcoming cap space they could afford to front load Aaron's contract. I trust that if they want to, McVay, Snead, and Demoff can figure it out.
 

Ramstien

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I would hate to have the responsibility of trying to figure out/manage this cap situation. I love what Donald brings to the Rams but you can't let him break the bank because too many other good players are going to have to be paid in the very near future. If I'm not mistaken the Rams could still control Donald for a couple of years.
 

Farr Be It

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Elite, franchise QB's....win playoff games at home....AT HOME!!!!! And play well in the process.

I went back and looked again at the extended highlights of that game, Champ. You’re just wrong about Goff here. I would actually say, for a 23-year-old he had an incredible game.

Goff battled, despite 2 disastrous special teams turnovers deep in our own territory early in the game. That’s 2 lost offensive drives. And 6 points to the opposition. (Credit the defense)

He battled, despite the defense losing Michael Brockers with six minutes left in the second quarter. The defense then began giving up more sustained drives. Keeping the ball out of Goff and the offenses hands.

Goff endured 4-6 drops by his receivers. Many of them were egregious. Yet he NEVER pulls that whiny-pussy move that quarterbacks like Eli Manning or Cam Newton pull of looking at their receiver and throwing up their hands and shaking their head with theatrics. As if to say: “Why didn’t you catch my great pass? Look! Look everyone in the stadium, and around the globe! It’s his fault!” That’s some pussy-ass, Jay Cutler, even Tom Brady crap.

No, Champ. You’re quarterback has too much character for that. He is a man. He is a leader. Start to appreciate that, Champ my friend.

Even with all of that, Goff had a pretty good effort against Atlanta. (Not all the best results, admittedly)

  • His play where he slid in the pocket to buy time, then thread the needle to Woods.
  • His third down conversions.
  • Touchdown to Kupp.
  • The late first half comeback
  • The late second half comeback
  • That great touchdown pass to Higbee (Oops)
  • That great touchdown pass to Watkins (Oops)
Champ, you’ve still got this hard-on for Wentz, and it seems have a refusal to embrace Jared, like he is a red-headed step-child.

Saints team and they weren't too impressive against the Rams. They had a good game in the playoffs against Minnesota, but their QB is a future HoFer. Goff isn't in the same stratosphere......yet at least.

Yes. Yes he is. Love you Gnomie, but Goff is actually breathing the same air as all these guys.

We don’t play the Legend of Drew Brees, or the Legend of Admired Quarterbacks of Accomplishment. We play a guy, along with his teammates, on a given Sunday.

Remember a few years ago when our Fisher-led Rams buried the carcass of Hall of Famer Peyton Manning and the Broncos? I remember our guys climbing up to his stratosphere pretty easily that day. Who did we chuck out there at quarterback that day? Keenum? Foles? I forget.

I know you said Jared is “not there yet” Gnome, but there are changings of the guard happening every year in the NFL. I would maintain that our boy Goff rubs elbows with all them boys...here in the Milky Way. :sneaky:

I can't believe so many people here underestimating Donald's impact on the Rams success last year.

I’m with you here, bro. And besides, we will have Gurley at least 2 more years. At that point we can either franchise him, or reassess his value. A 27-28-year-old running back is at the tail-end of his prime in the NFL. Not to say he can’t get a few more good years. I want to see Gurley in horns for life. We’ll see.
 

LACHAMP46

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Loved your post, BTW....very interesting observations...not the normal responses from our group...
2 disastrous special teams turnovers deep in our own territory early in the game. That’s 2 lost offensive drives.
I get all that....but, we survived....

My main focus, after a rally in the 2nd quarter...is those 3 points in the 2nd HALF....drops matter...they happen...but pick yourself up...and throw ANOTHER dime....I've never seen the amount of blame for a drop...you'd think we're the only team that drops passes....
Higbee's was a drop....Watkins was contested....which usually isn't considered a drop...but whatever...I believe he could have caught it...I also believe he was wide open several plays in the first half and was ignored...try ignoring a diva wr the entire first half...and see if he's engaged in the latter parts of a game....
And 6 points to the opposition. (Credit the defense)
First guy to say the defense played decent...19th ranked decent....

Typical games the offense gets 7 to 8 drives a game....we got the ball plenty in the 2nd half...we scored 3 points...

and I saw so many check down passes to some guys I'm blasting in here that we don't need to go over 4 yard completions...

You can't beat good teams...playoff teams...throwing short of the sticks...it got me pissed at Keenum and Foles and Sammy B.....I'm not cutting any slack now...dude wasn't pressing the game...he was checking down...and...IMO...he was looking for his "guys".
The late second half comeback
huh?!....I must have missed it...and I watched that game 3 times.
 

dieterbrock

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You're right but when was the last time a team dished that out won a SB?
How about the Eagles? They gave a boatload to Fletcher Cox (some said overpaid) and then dumped significant cash in to QB with SB, Daniel and drafted CW. Now they still have that Cox contract and were able to pay Foles big backup money.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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I would hate to have the responsibility of trying to figure out/manage this cap situation. I love what Donald brings to the Rams but you can't let him break the bank because too many other good players are going to have to be paid in the very near future. If I'm not mistaken the Rams could still control Donald for a couple of years.


They either heavily frontload the contract or play the franchise tag card
 

snackdaddy

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Donald is probably the best player. But his position doesn't impact the game as much as a quarterback. Or an elite running back for that matter.

I said this before. Donald was great in 2016 and 2017. They went 4-12 and 11-5 those seasons. Gurley had an off year in 2016 and they go 4-12. Gurley has a great year in 2017 and they go 11-5.

See the correlation? As good as Donald has been in his 4 seasons, and he's been the best, they never had a winning season till the offense got untracked. Gurley was a big part of that offense.
 

Farr Be It

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huh?!....I must have missed it...and I watched that game 3 times.

Oh so you didn’t see the two great throws to the end zone with just over two minutes to go that we’re dropped? Maybe the fourth time you watch. If you Wentz your eyes a bit, perhaps you’ll see it.
 

LACHAMP46

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Oh so you didn’t see the two great throws to the end zone with just over two minutes to go that we’re dropped?
No....

Stop with the game was in the balance talk....it was almost...not completely...but almost over...naw...didn't see it....I saw some tough contested balls...that he tried to make a play on....check out the play by play....2:11 and 1:42...I think those were the ones....check out what is written in the narrative....defended by

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201801060ram.htm#all_pbp[/QUOTE]
 

Farr Be It

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No....

Stop with the game was in the balance talk....it was almost...not completely...but almost over...naw...didn't see it....I saw some tough contested balls...that he tried to make a play on....check out the play by play....2:11 and 1:42...I think those were the ones....check out what is written in the narrative....defended by

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201801060ram.htm#all_pbp
[/QUOTE]

I think we are done, here. Are you really a Rams fan? Champ, Higbee did NOT drop that pass? Wrong. Goff then threw a DIME to Watkins. Contested or not.

Game WAS in the balance. A touchdown with over two minutes to go, at 26-20, and we would have been out of it? In what world?

Dude, I don't think you WANT to give Goff credit. That is why I am done with this discussion.
 

VegasRam

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Denver team....when Peyton just dropped off the map...shows dominant defense still wins....

Hell, the Jags played that way...and all of a sudden Blake Bortles turned into...a legitimate QB....all of a sudden.....first playoffs too....


On another (never never ever ending) note...

Elite, franchise QB's....win playoff games at home....AT HOME!!!!! And play well in the process.

FIFY
 
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Kevin

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First, check out this piece.

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/18/nfl-los-angeles-rams-todd-gurley-mvp-2018-insider/

I would like to draw your attention to this quote from this Ramwire piece...

Gurley is rightly seen as being the best player on this team, so that would give him an inside track to ending the quarterback position’s recent dominance of this award.

Is Gurley really the best player on this team? I mean he just finished an awesome MVP type season even though sitting out the last game where he might have been able to pad his stats even further.

Or is AD the best player on this team? Many think AD is a future HOF’er and the best D player in the league.

Each player is clearly the best on his unit. But which is the true best player on this team?

And why do you think your choice is the better player?

Discuss.
I don't think one can compare offensive players to defensive players and choose one as "better" than the other without falling into a qualitative argument that has no resolution.
 

Tano

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Loved your post, BTW....very interesting observations...not the normal responses from our group...
I get all that....but, we survived....

My main focus, after a rally in the 2nd quarter...is those 3 points in the 2nd HALF....drops matter...they happen...but pick yourself up...and throw ANOTHER dime....I've never seen the amount of blame for a drop...you'd think we're the only team that drops passes....
Higbee's was a drop....Watkins was contested....which usually isn't considered a drop...but whatever...I believe he could have caught it...I also believe he was wide open several plays in the first half and was ignored...try ignoring a diva wr the entire first half...and see if he's engaged in the latter parts of a game....

First guy to say the defense played decent...19th ranked decent....

Typical games the offense gets 7 to 8 drives a game....we got the ball plenty in the 2nd half...we scored 3 points...

and I saw so many check down passes to some guys I'm blasting in here that we don't need to go over 4 yard completions...

You can't beat good teams...playoff teams...throwing short of the sticks...it got me ticked at Keenum and Foles and Sammy B.....I'm not cutting any slack now...dude wasn't pressing the game...he was checking down...and...IMO...he was looking for his "guys".
huh?!....I must have missed it...and I watched that game 3 times.
I just looked at the plays after the first quarter (which I have already stated many times was a bad qtr), Goff did not end ANY drive with passes to Kupp. He drove the length of the field every drive after that except for the check down to Gurley on 3rd and 7 to end the one bad drive in the 3rd qtr. One play in the entire 3 qtrs after the first that you are harping about check downs.

All the other plays were either

1) field goals where a) we ran out of time (also due to a Havenstein holding), and b) where Goff got sacked and then handed off to Brown for a 11 yard gain on 3rd and 14. Maybe the sack was Goff's fault because I can't remember that play too well.

2) Incomplete TD passes to Higbee and Watkins (twice) - these might have been contested a little but they were extremely good throws. By the way the second throw after the first drop was on 4th down so he did pick himself up on the first drop. I will admit Goff probably felt the effects of the 3rd drop because he didn't do well after that on that last drive of the game. But by then it appeared that any momentum came crashing to a halt after that 3rd drop.

So all in all - after the 1st qtr - Goff had two possible bad plays that halted drives (one for a field goal after a long drive too) and you are going to harp on him. I give up. We will agree to disagree on Goff's game in the Atlanta game. He played well enough to win if the Defense didn't let him down in the second half.
 
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LACHAMP46

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They do....
I just looked at the plays after the first quarter (which I have already stated many times was a bad qtr), Goff did not end ANY drive with passes to Kupp.
Curious...why don't you want to include the 1st quarter? When a game is in the balance...When momentum can be grabbed?

oh....cause a drive ended with Kupp
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201801060ram.htm#all_pbp
1st Q....5:47
What does the 3rd down passes in this game have to do with anything? Why does it matter when one is targeted? Oh yeah, I've seen that PFF post....he was successful on 3rd down at a very high %%%...but for some reason, not this game....biggest game of the season...ok....

13 targets...whenever they came....8 completions...whenever they came...for 69 yards....

If he was only running 4 yards downfield...he shouldn't have gotten any passes...

So all in all - after the 1st qtr

After the 1st....The Rams kinda woke up...kinda...cause I'd take10 points a quarter any day....after the 2nd quarter...they went back to sleep...blame the D if YOU want....Offense....number 1 ranked scoring offense...shit the bed...at home. Almost a choke job in my book.

Yeah, we're gonna disagree....the drive say...Punt, punt, punt, fumble, punt, TD, FG, punt, FG, downs, downs....

Defense....blame them....my lying eyes say different.