If we keep Wade, we should overhaul the defensive staff

[-X-]

Todd Bowles, meet Aaron Donald.

 

[den-the-coach]

My problem with Barry is that I've heard nothing but bad things about him. And our LBs haven't done anything to change that perception. As for Johnson, I think he's a good coach, but I think Kollar is phenomenal. I'd really love to get Jim Tomsula from Washington, but I see Gruden surviving this year.

Couldn't have been all bad, he was hired as a Defensive Coordinator twice albeit once by his father in law in Rod Marinelli. I know that McVay and Barry are close (they were together in Tampa & Washington), but I do believe that if Wade does stay adding someone like Todd Bowles or Vance Joseph (who worked with Wade in Houston) as a Senior Defensive Constant would be prudent and the fact that McVay is quick to go after young offensive minds, let's hope he has the same zest for defensive minds as well.

Again, concerned McVay is too close to Joe Barry, they biked together and seem to hang out, but again that's just a perception. IMO, I concur that if Wade stays, making changes at defensive line and linebacker coach makes sense, but Bill Johnson is close to Wade and Joe Barry is also Assistant Head Coach, maybe they could just keep him with that title, but not sure because of the relationships, it would be done. Again I like the idea of Woods & Herring and adding Joseph would be the trifecta, that would be a good way for Wade to go out and he might sign off on replacing Bill Johnson, but we are about to find out if McVay has the ability to separate his associations for winning...Mike Martz couldn't do it and it led to his demise and many others have also not done it, but the ones who have like Asshole Face and Bill Bilichick for example are winners. Cutting bait even though it's a friend is tough, in Corporate America you can just reassign a guy to different division, but firing an assistant coach because his unit is obviously underachieving seems easy, but again, I would hope McVay would hire another Linebacker Coach and keep Barry on as the Assistant Head Coach, if he can't fire him.

 

[Juice]

Wade's biggest issue here, has been trying to run a 3-4 when he inherited a very capable set of 4-3 defensive players. I wonder how Greg Williams D has been doing in Cleveland? I bet its better than ours, with less talent.

I wonder how our defense would be if we had Greg Williams now.

 

[dieterbrock]

. I wonder how Greg Williams D has been doing in Cleveland? I bet its better than ours, with less talent.

I think there’s a good bit of talent on that Browns D. In fact, I think a case could be made that Williams D has been under achieving as well.
On a side note, does GWill get a look at being the permanent HC? Could win the last 2 games and finish with a 6-2 record.

 

[I like Rams]

Maybe Dick Lebeau retires next season and we can buy his playbook from him.

 

[OldSchool]

If Wade does that, I really hope McVay goes after a major DC candidate. I'd love to get Bowles, Rivera/Wilks, or Kris Richard. Just don't saddle us with Joe Barry.

What about Pleasant? I realize he doesn't have much of a track record but they've talked very highly about him I could see him retained and even made an assistant D coach.

 

[dieterbrock]

How about Jeff Fisher?
He sure knew how to stop this offense

 

[jrry32]

Couldn't have been all bad, he was hired as a Defensive Coordinator twice albeit once by his father in law in Rod Marinelli. I know that McVay and Barry are close (they were together in Tampa & Washington), but I do believe that if Wade does stay adding someone like Todd Bowles or Vance Joseph (who worked with Wade in Houston) as a Senior Defensive Constant would be prudent and the fact that McVay is quick to go after young offensive minds, let's hope he has the same zest for defensive minds as well.

Again, concerned McVay is too close to Joe Barry, they biked together and seem to hang out, but again that's just a perception. IMO, I concur that if Wade stays, making changes at defensive line and linebacker coach makes sense, but Bill Johnson is close to Wade and Joe Barry is also Assistant Head Coach, maybe they could just keep him with that title, but not sure because of the relationships, it would be done. Again I like the idea of Woods & Herring and adding Joseph would be the trifecta, that would be a good way for Wade to go out and he might sign off on replacing Bill Johnson, but we are about to find out if McVay has the ability to separate his associations for winning...Mike Martz couldn't do it and it led to his demise and many others have also not done it, but the ones who have like Asshole Face and Bill Bilichick for example are winners. Cutting bait even though it's a friend is tough, in Corporate America you can just reassign a guy to different division, but firing an assistant coach because his unit is obviously underachieving seems easy, but again, I would hope McVay would hire another Linebacker Coach and keep Barry on as the Assistant Head Coach, if he can't fire him.

Take a look at what Chargers fans said right after he got hired in Washington as DC (he was their LB Coach before that hire):
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=561018

It sounds awfully familiar, especially the part about atrocious tackling. FWIW, he seems to be well liked by his players, but I'm just not seeing much in the results department at this point.

 

[den-the-coach]

It sounds awfully familiar, especially the part about atrocious tackling. FWIW, he seems to be well liked by his players, but I'm just not seeing much in the results department at this point.

I concur, but how does a guy who is not a good Coach get the second DC job? No his first job was by nepotism, however, the Redskins hired him and below is an article as to why they did. Great energy, which I believe he has, but again I concur usually a guy has a better track record, but the defense in San Diego was good, so there is that.

Here are some of the reasons why they went with Barry:

—Here is Jay Gruden’s explanation for the hire: “He brings energy. Commitment to being great,” Gruden said in Mobile. “I like what he’s done in his career – how he’s progressed as a football coach: going to USC and now he’s in the 3-4 system with San Diego. Really have a great appreciation for what they’ve done in San Diego. They get the most out of their players, have a good scheme.”

—The talk around Redskins Park was that the Redskins wanted to go with someone younger than Wade Phillips, who will be 68 before training camp starts. They wanted someone who could better relate to younger players. Phillips certainly has a great resume but that’s not everything. And while many noted that no other teams seemed to be after Barry to hire him as their defensive coordinator, look at Phillips’ situation. In the past two NFL hiring cycles I believe that around half of the NFL teams have hired new defensive coordinators and Phillips remains without a job. For whatever reason, the Redskins weren’t the only team to find that Phillips doesn’t fit what they are looking for.

—With Barry’s Tampa Bay connections, was there an element of cronyism involved? Probably. But I suspect that Barry benefitted more from the fact that Gruden worked on the same Bucs staff as him, not the fact that Bruce Allen was the general manager in Tampa. Regardless, I’d say that about 60 to 75 percent of NFL coaching hires involve one guy hiring another guy he’s worked with before and there are only one or two degrees of separation involved in the rest of them. These people have to spend literally thousands of hours together from training camp through the season and if there are personality clashes the wheels can come off of the operation. That’s why so many coaches prefer to go with a known quantity.

—What about Vic Fangio? It seemed that he’d rather work for John Fox in Chicago. That could be a better situation for him to get the NFL head coaching job he wants. Fangio not getting a formal offer is just a technicality. Had he called back on Monday or Tuesday and said that he wanted to talk more about the job they would have come up with an offer quickly.

—Finally, Barry had a great interview. Many fans scoff at that as a factor but Gruden like the vision he laid out for the Redskins’ defense. Wasn’t the interview kind of important when you got your current job?

There is plenty of cause for skepticism about the hire. Not much that this organization has done has gone right for the last couple of decades. Fans can be mad about it or they can wait and see.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...d-to-know-why-did-the-redskins-hire-joe-barry

Again many feel that he got this gig too because of Cronyism being that he worked with Jay Gruden in Tampa and again, that's my one fear with McVay, can he have the strength to hire the right coaches regardless of connections? I guess we shall see, but Joe Barry seems to one of those Coaches that always finds a job because of his energy and he's affable and IMO, those two attributes can be the kiss of death for assistant coaches.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I hope the Rams hoist the Lombardi and Wade’s D plays lights out.

I still have faith we are winning it all this year

Maybe during the off season this thread might be more appropriate.

GO RAMS

 

[jrry32]

I concur, but how does a guy who is not a good Coach get the second DC job? No his first job was by nepotism, however, the Redskins hired him and below is an article as to why they did. Great energy, which I believe he has, but again I concur usually a guy has a better track record, but the defense in San Diego was good, so there is that.

It happens all the time in the NFL. They love to cycle through the same old names.

 

[thirteen28]

"The problem they had in the 3-4 scheme wasn't with one game," Johnson said. "There were 16. It takes large men to play that 3-4 over the course of the season. You've got to hold some people off those linebackers, so it takes good-sized people and some luck.

"To have that defense be highly effective, it takes special people playing off the edge at outside linebacker. If you lose one of those guys, they're hard to replace. You've got to have not just good starting personnel but depth.

"I prefer a 4-3, but there are some beautiful things about a 3-4."

I really think this is the crux of the problem, although it doesn't let Wade off the hook. IMO we really need a big, strong, widebody NT whose primary purpose is to eat blockers for lunch, and we need at least one big, thumping ILB to replace the undersized and ineffective Mark Barron. We can't continue to have out DLs run themselves out of plays, and we can't continue with undersized ILBs that can't stop the run and who get too easily swallowed by opposing blockers. That's on Wade to adjust his scheme and his front seven personnel. There is a flaw in his scheme because of the lack of a good NT, and it's exacerbated by the fact that his players can't execute his vision anyway.

Secondary is a different issue, and this might be more on coaching because the talent is there. They just haven't executed, and Joyner's regression is puzzling, to say the least.

 

[FrantikRam]

With NFL teams seem to be wanting offensive minded head coaches, you'd think we will have our pick of DCs to choose from this upcoming season, assuming most of them are let go. That seems to be lining up nicely for us.

 

[Ken]

I liked GW's D better than WP's D. If McVay had retained Bones and GW, I believe the Rams would be in a better place right now.

 

[FrantikRam]

Based on the personnel on this defense, I think Wade and McVay thought like this:

Talib and Peters - two top 10 CBs
Joyner and Johnson - two top 10 safeties (from last year)
A former safety at LB who was good in pass coverage last year
The best pair of pass rushing DTs in the history of the NFL (on paper)
The best slot CB in the NFL

Teams won't be able to pass on us. Don't worry about stopping the run.

Problem is, teams have been able to pass on us.

 

[den-the-coach]

Go Get Vance Joseph, I believe he will be available and the Rams need to pay him well to accept the title of "Senior Defensive Assistant/Assistant Defensive Coordinator." Wade likes Joseph, worked with him in Houston and bring his defensive staff with him in Joe Woods and linebacker Coach Reggie Herring....Let Joe Barry retain the title of "Assistant Head Coach." if McVay does not want to fire him and Joe Woods working with Aubrey Pleasant as @jrry32 posted will be good for Pleasant. Wade gets to stay on one more year to go out on a higher note and Joseph is "DC in waiting." Which iMO, is a good thing and most likely will be with the Rams awhile before he gets another Head Coaching gig, the key will be to pay him well because he will be in high demand for many teams hiring "Offensive Head Coaches" that want a proven DC.

 

[jrry32]

Go Get Vance Joseph, I believe he will be available and the Rams need to pay him well to accept the title of "Senior Defensive Assistant/Assistant Defensive Coordinator." Wade likes Joseph, worked with him in Houston and bring his defensive staff with him in Joe Woods and linebacker Coach Reggie Herring....Let Joe Barry retain the title of "Assistant Head Coach." if McVay does not want to fire him and Joe Woods working with Aubrey Pleasant as @jrry32 posted will be good for Pleasant. Wade gets to stay on one more year to go out on a higher note and Joseph is "DC in waiting." Which iMO, is a good thing and most likely will be with the Rams awhile before he gets another Head Coaching gig, the key will be to pay him well because he will be in high demand for many teams hiring "Offensive Head Coaches" that want a proven DC.

I don't think Vance should be the DC in waiting. In his only year as DC, his Dolphins defense was below average.

 

[H.Birdman]

Wade gotta go.

 

[den-the-coach]

I don't think Vance should be the DC in waiting. In his only year as DC, his Dolphins defense was below average.

Very good defensive coach and is the reason he got the Bronco job, he only had one year as a DC, but was a highly regarded defensive coach. Mike Tomlin was only a DC for one year in Minnesota with not great results, plus the Broncos defense has been very good and that credit IMO, goes more towards Joseph than Woods.

 

[jrry32]

Very good defensive coach and is the reason he got the Bronco job, he only had one year as a DC, but was a highly regarded defensive coach. Mike Tomlin was only a DC for one year in Minnesota with not great results, plus the Broncos defense has been very good and that credit IMO, goes more towards Joseph than Woods.

The Broncos are firing Joseph partially because they have underachieved on defense. It's a big risk to take. I'd be more inclined to trust Woods than Joseph.