If the Rams cheated...

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What would you do if the Rams cheated but won a ton of games and super bowls like NE?

  • I'd stop being a fan

    Votes: 24 32.0%
  • Wouldn't bother me at all

    Votes: 6 8.0%
  • I'd rationalize it by saying everyone cheats... we just got caught and we're still super bowl champs

    Votes: 45 60.0%

  • Total voters
    75

Corbin

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It would seriously bug me, but I can't stop being a fan. I wouldn't exactly rationalize it and say it's ok either. But I would definitely throw the Patriots and the niners out there as teams that people love for cheating.

By the way, if you ever feel inclined to go to yourteamcheats.com to see if the Rams have ever cheated, don't. Apparently the site is run by Patriots fans who just want to feel better about themselves. Apparently the Rams (and every other team) are just as guilty for Spygate as the Patriots are. Both the 2001 and the 200other-year (which they consider an ongoing league wide effort) versions.

Prepare to catch the dumb:
http://yourteamcheats.com/LA
Those guys are complete momo's!
So making a business website very soon and thinking of making a site dedicated to our violation of our SB being stolen from and facts regarding it. Partly to piss off Pats fans, but mostly to spread the knowledge. What do you think? Wonder what a good nane would be for it?
 

The Ramowl

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I like that most people admit they would rationalize it. I definitely would, but it would also damage my fandom.

I think if we had something like the bountygate, I'd have a hard team rationalizing that though
 

den-the-coach

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I will be honest here, if the Rams won five Super Bowls I would look the other way and I consider myself above reproach.
 

T-REX

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If it started out with something inconsequential I’d be like…
200.gif

But if it continued on for a length of time like the Cheatroits I’d be like…
 

LesBaker

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One of the ways I keep from punching a hole in the wall when I see people getting away with lying and cheating is knowing that everyone will get theirs in the end, one way or another. Justice will be served.
*****************************************************************************************
So you think there's only one NFL team that cheats? You're wrong. All 32 NFL teams cheat. Yup, even your favorite team is a dirty cheater, but since they are not that good, nobody really cares.

http://yourteamcheats.com/

That's a good site and always a fun read.
 

Classic Rams

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I'd honestly look at the plays/deeds in question and either agree or disagree. I'm not ashamed to admit when the Rams get away with something, so that's how I'd look at it. Quit...no. I would call out anyone that says a legal play is cheating and agree if the Rams did play dirty.

The only dynasty I was a part of was the Showtime Lakers from 1979-1989 and they weren't known as cheaters. Boston did complain of the roughhouse play in the 1985 win but for them to complain when they've been playing like that too, it just cancelled out.

Kobe and Shaq on the other hand, I wasn't into Shaq's style and Kobe with that rape scandal made me like them a bit less, and then there was that controversial ref... so yeah I don't deny the nastyness that went on with that team and I was never a huge Kobe fan but I do accept the trophies they won for the Lakers of course.
 

UKram

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honestly i dont care the pats cheat ...my old rugby coach used to say its only cheating if you let the ref catch you

my biggest bug with the Pats is the "punishments" that have been handed out to them for the cheating .. its almost like the league condones it ... and then they get extra "help" from the refs...after spygate strip them of their 1st 2nd 3rd round picks ... deflatgate ban brady for 8 games ... make the punishments punitive and cumulative and it wouldn't happen again
 

Rmfnlt

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  • #72
So... a few camps have formed... but the poll seems to indicate a lot of us would take those Super Bowls and rationalize.

I applaud those that say they would not tolerate cheating of any kind and would stop being a fan.... that's conviction!

Then, there's the qualifier group... depends on how heinous the crimes were. Kind of a cop out... where do you draw the line? Spying? Equipment manipulation? Headset interference? Deliberate intent to injure opponent's star player(s)?
Tough calls... got to straddle that line, I suppose.

The highest vote-getter was the rationalization group. I'll take those Super Bowls and tell others they cheat too or they're just jealous.

And then, there's the unabashed group... hell yeah, I'll take those Super Bowls and won't apologize for nothing!

Thanks to all who have responded.

Real moral dilemma for many.... as I said, I like to think of myself as being pretty ethical... fairly religious and raised my kids to always do the right thing (personally).

But, listening to my son (NE fan) dismiss all the crimes made me wonder... if the tables were turned, would I react similarly.

I can definitely imagine how nice it must feel to be that successful... and I can see how all that success could challenge anyone's sense of right and wrong... I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it's football... no one died because NE cheated.
 

Prime Time

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/sports/football/new-england-patriots-super-bowl-cheating.html

Why Do Fans Excuse the Patriots’ Cheating Past?
By JULIET MACUR/
FEB. 5, 2017

05MACUR1-superJumbo.jpg

Photographs by Getty Images and Associated Press

BOSTON — In a psychological experiment, researchers separated people into two groups and offered some of them an option: Complete a fun, 10-minute task, or take on a difficult, 45-minute one. Placed in a room alone, they were told to choose which task they would have to do, or let a coin flip decide. Either way, the person entering the room next would be left with the other task.

Afterward, those people were asked to rate how fairly they had acted, and 90 percent said they had been fair. Except that they were lying. In fact, they had picked the easy task for themselves, without even flipping the coin, wrongly believing that no one was watching.

Keep this study in mind on Sunday when that grand psychological riddle known as the New England Patriots tries to win yet another Super Bowl. In New England, you see, the Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick, is a mastermind, quarterback Tom Brady is superhuman and the entire organization is viewed as a model of professional football perfection.

Outside New England, there’s far more skepticism. The Patriots are considered unrepentant cheaters, caught (and punished) more than once for their football crimes. Yet they keep winning, with a roster full of retreads and spare parts. Could they be skirting the rules even today, in new or undetected ways? Many football fans — nearly all of them outside New England — would not be surprised.

05MACUR2-superJumbo.jpg

Jeff Roberson/Associated Press

David DeSteno has a special vantage point for observing public response to the Patriots. He is a professor of psychology in Patriots country, at Northeastern University, in Boston, and he was a co-author of the study mentioned above. DeSteno is not a football fan, but he is an expert on the psychology of emotion, hypocrisy and moral judgment. He said you can’t really blame the Patriots faithful for believing their team can do no wrong, and has done no wrong, even though it was twice caught cheating by the N.F.L.

So the pre-Super Bowl chatter marches on, focusing on Belichick’s genius, even though he was fined a half-million dollars for videotaping opposing coaches in 2007, or Brady’s brilliance, even though he was suspended forthe first four games of the season after being accused of using deflated footballs.

To the Patriots and their fans, ignoring the negatives is just a way to protect the team and the legitimacy of their sport, DeSteno said, adding that in doing so, the Patriots and their supporters are not unlike any other group and its followers.

“It’s not about the true facts, or about how honest you believe a group is, or what the group’s past behavior is,” he said. “It doesn’t matter what sport it is, or what team it is, or even if it’s sports at all. Just being a part of a group, any group, is enough to excuse moral transgressions because in some way, you’re benefiting from it. Your moral compass shifts.”

DeSteno and his former student Piercarlo Valdesolo conducted studies that showed that even strangers placed into groups quickly start favoring the people in their group, as they would favor themselves, even if that group was created randomly, and only minutes earlier. Morality, as it turns out, can change by the second, and for no good reason.

It’s not even a conscious decision, DeSteno said. It’s an innate survival reaction.

It even showed up in the coin-flip experiment. Before it started, the initial group had been divided using different color wristbands, effectively separating participants into teams, and then some were told to watch on a hidden camera as the coin flippers cheated. When the observers saw people cheat, they considered it unfair and wrong — unless they saw that the cheater was wearing the same color wristband as they were. In those cases, they were much more likely to excuse the behavior.

“What’s interesting to me is that smart people can see the same events, but can have such different views of an act that’s otherwise objective, like videotaping another team when it’s illegal,” DeSteno said. “Some people could see that and say it’s terrible. Others could say it’s not cheating because everyone’s doing it. Both groups of people would believe what their mind is telling them to believe.”

The closer you feel affiliated with a group, DeSteno said, the more moral leniency you are willing to allow. So imagine that you have grown up a Patriots fan, watching their games with your family every Sunday. Your friends and neighbors follow the team just as devotedly, and even your children can recite the names and jersey numbers of the top Patriots players.

With an allegiance like that, built over years and years of fandom, the Patriots could basically be caught with 22 players on the field and have their fans justify it, somehow, someway.

For Alisha Karkera, who was a junior at Northeastern last year before transferring to the University of Texas at Dallas, it still doesn’t make sense.

Last fall, she interviewed DeSteno for a question-and-answer piece titled, “Why Does Patriots Nation Trust Tom Brady When No One Else Does?” She wanted to explain how Patriots fans could have tunnel vision when it came to their beloved team, even after an N.F.L. investigation had caught it using deflated footballs. She had seen that fervent team loyalty in person.

Her father, Sharad, is a longtime Patriots fan, a proud owner of a Patriots championship jacket. He was sure Brady had nothing to do with deflating those footballs, Alisha Karkera said.

“‘I’m glad you got published, but, hmm, I don’t know if I agree with what you wrote,’” she recalled her father saying when she showed him her Q. and A. “But I told him: ‘The facts are right there. Why don’t you believe them?’ I now know that he just sees those facts differently.”

If her father accepted that the Patriots had cheated, Karkera realized, it would mean accepting an uncomfortable conclusion about his own ethics — that he supports a team that cheats.

Yet she is still amazed by the power of sports to affect the way people think. “I don’t want to say anything rude,” she said, “but football, it’s like a cult.”

Brady’s father, also named Tom, spoke to a San Francisco television stationlast week and decried how the N.F.L. had punished his son with a suspension for deflating footballs, when it had no direct evidence against him. He called the ban a witch hunt and said he would be thrilled to see his son win the Super Bowl, even if that meant his son might receive the Lombardi Trophy from Commissioner Roger Goodell.

“Somebody that has Roger Goodell’s ethics doesn’t belong on any stage that Tom Brady is on,” Tom Brady Sr. said.

There’s absolutely no criticizing a father defending his child. Just as there is no persuading fans if they believe their beloved team is in the right. But like it or not — and science, psychology and experiments aside — we do know that love can be blind.

Being on the outside of that can take some getting used to. But it might be comforting to know that these people just can’t help it.
 

Rmfnlt

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  • #74
Thanks @Prime Time for finding that... really interesting!

I hadn't thought of this possibility... fans of teams that do questionable things get kinda "boxed in".
If her father accepted that the Patriots had cheated, Karkera realized, it would mean accepting an uncomfortable conclusion about his own ethics — that he supports a team that cheats.
 

thirteen28

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Too many variables to give an answer within the confines of this poll, but I'll try to give my own.

If they did it once, got caught, and reformed, I'd still be a fan, but very disappointed.

If it was chronic and persistent over the years, I'd lose interest.

And of course, it would depend on the definition of cheating. If it's the coach talking to the QB through the headset up until the time it cuts off ... well, FU haters, that's not cheating, that's well within the confines of the rules.

If, on the other hand, it's persistent, covert videotaping of opponents, their signals, and credible allegations of taping a walkthrough with the NFL covering it up by destroying evidence ... I'd be furious. That's Black Sox Scandal-level cheating right there.
 

LACHAMP46

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It's hard to "cheat" in team sports....I think there is a form of cheating going on....from agents steering players to certain teams....to guys giving up inside secrets...(see Blunt and Long on Philly this week)....to performance enhancing product use.

I'm more concerned about the 1%....and the shit going on in the "real" world....I could give a flying fuck who does what to gain a competitive advantage in sports...which is basically entertainment. I didn't care that Milli Vanilli lip sync'd songs.
 

Lunchbox

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We are talking about a football game, correct:hiding:
train

Correct. I guess for me it's important for a person's actions to be a reflection of their beliefs. Doesn't matter if it is within the context of a game (this entire thread exists because there's big money involved as well as ethical questions) or every day life.
 

Rmfnlt

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  • #80
Too many variables to give an answer within the confines of this poll, but I'll try to give my own.

If they did it once, got caught, and reformed, I'd still be a fan, but very disappointed.

If it was chronic and persistent over the years, I'd lose interest.

And of course, it would depend on the definition of cheating. If it's the coach talking to the QB through the headset up until the time it cuts off ... well, FU haters, that's not cheating, that's well within the confines of the rules.

If, on the other hand, it's persistent, covert videotaping of opponents, their signals, and credible allegations of taping a walkthrough with the NFL covering it up by destroying evidence ... I'd be furious. That's Black Sox Scandal-level cheating right there.
So, what about signing players off the next opponents practice squad to get inside info?

Is that cheating? Teams (including the Rams) do that a lot.