How the Rams might be setting up to actually land a decent quarterback

[Elmgrovegnome]

I doubt that Snead expects Keenum to start 45 games, at least for the Rams. So any criticism that implies that is a straw man.

Second, what were the stats like for those QBs in the first 5 games they started for their primary team? What were the receiving corps like? I suspect that many of Brady's wins on that list came when he had Moss and Welker in his prime. I suspect few primary receivers for those QBs were the caliber of Britt. I do expect the Rams to try to upgrade - but Snead does have a point. It's important to have a good defense in the NFL. Trading away so many picks that by the time the QB is ready he has no help around him, and an aging, expensive defense, is not a path to victory.

Strawman? What are you talking about? This isn't Ramstalk.

All I was saying is that when Snead computed his success to points ratios he must have looked at the same list posted on the article. When he looked at that list he must have considered the quality of the QBs compared to what the Rams are currently rolling with. So, hopefully that equates to him knowing that they will need to upgrade the position either this year or the next. Keenum and Foles would not be picked by any team to replace any of those QBs imo.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Apparently not. It cracks me up when I see grammatical errors, I didnt pass English til my Jr yr in high school it has always been my most hated subject yet professional writers are even worse than this high school drop out.

I make errors often in posts but mostly it is because I write them on a Kindle and it is late at night and I miss that it auto corrected them to something that didn't makes sense. But, like you said professional writers shouldn't be making these amateur mistakes.

 

[-X-]

It has a lot to do with it on the other end.

That's not a Keenum problem in as much as it's an offense problem. Even Bradford only threw 59 TDs in 49 games. We don't have the weaponry to give a QB high numbers.

In fact, in Bulger's last three years (2007-2009), he averaged 3/4 of a TD per game. 27 in 35 games. It's an offense problem.

 

[Merlin]

For starters even though I like Keenum as that bridge guy at QB I gotta say there is no team in the NFL that has a more acute need for a franchise QB than the Rams. Keenum's that guy who plays the minimizing of mistakes game, which IS winning football, but he is still not going to be viewed by the Rams as a long term answer and face of the franchise. They need a guy to pair with Gurley in that backfield, a couple of high end set pieces that can put them in position to win double digit games for a long time.

So I still see a move up as making the most sense for them. They have to start that timer going with their QB of the future, so he'll be ready to go in 2019 when the stadium opens. But more importantly to give this team hope for the future. Even if Keenum wins the job again this year and starts, simply knowing that high talent rookie is on the roster is huge for us. I'm firmly of the mind that moving up to get that position fixed now is the best option for this team.

If they don't move up, and stick at 15, the only real option at QB is Lynch. And I'm good with them taking him and all, because none of these guys are sure things and he does have elite talent. The guy is so big and freakishly talented that the rules are a little different for him: he can see the entire field, is a big, strong dude who is going to hold up well physically, enormous arm talent, great touch on his deep ball, smooth and athletic, etc. Problem is teams like Denver and NYJ will have the Rams as that team you gotta move ahead of to get Lynch, and the Eagles might also say screw it and take him to ensure their QB room has the high talent level they desire to begin the new regime.

If they elect to get a QB in round 2 or later, it's gonna get all crazy. So many teams need either a starter, or a guy to get in the pipeline to avoid FA insanity, and all of them know the Rams are gonna take one so that's the spot to get ahead of until they do. So that means the Rams will find themselves reaching for their guy. And they might take more than one, so that could be two reaches due to need.

Moving up has the ability to simplify things greatly for them. They can then find the possession option they need at wideout in round 3-4 range and still field a

 

[jap]

Good reminder most of what goes into getting an elite QB is lucky fate (luckily getting the #1 pick at the right time, or picking a QB on a whim that everyone else just passed on for whatever reason). You had the right call on Montana's future success, but no NFL team -- including the 49ers -- knew for certain Montana would be successful (or more accurately the west coast offense would thrive so much after the passing rules changes started being enforced -- see the awful 6-10 Bengals magically reaching the 1981 Super Bowl running the same system). At the time, Montana was just the QB that dropped to them randomly in the third round.

Joe was deemed too small to be a successful NFL QB. However, my younger brother and myself was following Joe's games at Notre Dame (ND), over the radio no less! Even as an underclassman, he was outstanding. He did not even start for the Fighting Irish. However, whenever their starting QB's had trouble moving the ball, and ND fell behind, they would turn the signal calling duties over to this skinny, young kid who would trot out onto the field and bring ND back just about every single damn time---even if they were three TD's down.

For me and my brother, there was never a doubt in our minds that this kid was a nascent bona fide superstar in the making, and we were praying that the Horns would see the light. When 'Frisco called his name I literally didn't know what to do. How could we go from rooting Joe on for years at ND to rooting against him as a 'damn 9er?

I know the so-called 'media brain trust' (now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard/saw one! ;-) ) are not overly impressed with this rookie QB class. However, they weren't impressed with Joe either coming out of ND, and now he is spoken of in the same breath as the greatest QB's to ever play the game. We may need to flip the switch on the history trend, guys.

 

[tempests]

Our problem is the games in which the Rams are the team that's being held to 17 points or less.

24 times(19-5) under Fisher the Rams defense limited teams to 17 or less, but 30 times(4-26) the offense didn't score more than 17.

 

[Ram65]

4. Thank God Johnny Hecker is the best punter on the planet. Unfortunately Hecker led the NFL with 96 punts. That's 6 punts a game!:shocked: Praise Johnny Hecker.

He has lots inside the 20 yard line too. A total of 41 which is 42.7 percent of his punts.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15153/johnny-hekker

PUNTS AVG LNG YDS TB TB% IN20 IN20% ATT YDS AVG NET
96 47.9 68 4601 6 6.3 41 42.7 40 289 7.2 43.7

Browns are going to get one of the big three QBs, Whiners can't be counted out. Rams have to pick a trade partner before them.

He was a top 3 Rams MVP in 2015!

 

[Fatbot]

For me and my brother, there was never a doubt in our minds that this kid was a nascent bona fide superstar in the making...

A lot of good lessons in your story. I know it appears obvious in hindsight, but I gotta cut the NFL GMs some slack here because they didn't know the lesson at the time that the NFL was transitioning from a stagnant dinosaur to an era of change. Teams were not in on the ground floor of his greatness like you & your brother because they failed to see the direction in which the game was moving.

Back then the west coast offense was still being ridiculed as a "nickle & dime" offense gimmick. A few days ago I posted a link to the 1985 Rams-Cowboys playoff game where Danny White was befuddled and confused "by the Rams using five defensive backs for the first time all season". Yes, it was a different game back then.

There were different rules -- including when it came to roughing the passer. Back then every single pass attempt had what would be called automatic roughing the passer today -- defensive linemen just pummeled QBs after the ball was away. That was just part of the QB's job to suck it up and take it.

So it's not surprising NFL teams shied away from a QB that was too small. The 49ers, of course, were an exception, running a system where that factor was minimized because the ball was gone before Montana could be hit (and eventually the roughing the passer rule and "star protection" grew so that breathing too hard on Joe was an automatic flag).

We fans will have our moments -- I'm sure every Stanford fan forecasts Andrew Luck for elite greatness -- but scouts are still gonna win out in the end over the average fan, despite their huge misses. There's simply no science to predicting QB greatness.

But we can take some lessons, like how things like system & fit have become more important than size & arm strength, and that the things that can't be measured at all like competitive drive, work ethic and love of the game dwarf the measurables when you're trying to pick between a hundred guys that were all great in college. And of course that the media, like this Bleacher Report writer, will always be full of idiots who think they know it all at this time of year. That guy couldn't see how Cam would fit into the game five years later, but the NFL learned its lesson.

 

[jap]

A lot of good lessons in your story. I know it appears obvious in hindsight, but I gotta cut the NFL GMs some slack here because they didn't know the lesson at the time that the NFL was transitioning from a stagnant dinosaur to an era of change. Teams were not in on the ground floor of his greatness like you & your brother because they failed to see the direction in which the game was moving.

My brother and I were just ordinary, dedicated fans, nothing more. The NFL was simply very rigid with respect to measurables for QB's and every other position. Joe was not ranked very high by NFL scouts. For instance, at a precursor to the official NFL combine, he was ranked at 6.5 with respect to arm strength on a scale where 1 was the lowest grade and 9 the highest. This ranking was used to determine how hard and long a prospect could throw the rock. Joe ended up as the fourth QB chosen at the end of the Round Three of the 1979 NFL Draft, the 82nd overall selection.

 

[jrry32]

I would like to see that too. And Wentz/Goff have the look and feel of exactly that. But there's also exactly zero guarantee that they'll turn into that. Of course you improve your odds the higher you draft, but I'd hate to see them put all their eggs into one basket while we're so close to having a complete team sans a FRANCHISE quarterback. This team only needs a pretty good one though. Keenum is a good QB, but we can obviously do better. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Keenum can *actually* do better with better weapons around him. Not Britt and Quick as the only guys. Which could very realistically be just Britt. Because we have no idea how Quick is going to do this year. So I'd still prefer they shore up the wide receiver/tight end positions swiftly and then let Mannion ease into the role and/or have some later round QB this year compete with him. Like Cody Kessler, for example.

And my WORST fear is that this QB class turns out to be like this one.

I'm not seeing the issue here. McNabb and Culpepper were both Pro Bowl QBs. Culpepper wrecked his knee which changed his game and highlighted the flaws he had. But he was a good QB prior to that. And Couch was ruined by Cleveland. I think he's a franchise QB if he lands anywhere else. If you look at the team around him, they had absolutely no talent. And the dude still led them to the playoffs once and had some solid years there. I'm talking worse than the 2009 Rams bad.

Plus, Aaron Brooks developed into a solid starting QB. All in all, that wasn't a bad QB class. I'd say 2011 is the class that I'd be most worried about this one being like. Four first round QBs and every QB not named Cam Newton busted hard.(although, you did have Dalton, Kaepernick, and Tyrod Taylor drafted outside the first round in that class)

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

That's not a Keenum problem in as much as it's an offense problem. Even Bradford only threw 59 TDs in 49 games. We don't have the weaponry to give a QB high numbers.

In fact, in Bulger's last three years (2007-2009), he averaged 3/4 of a TD per game. 27 in 35 games. It's an offense problem.

Maybe but I would bet with Aaron Rodgers on the team that the Rams could score more points per game. I get that you are putting all of your chips in the Keenum corner. And don't think I hate him or anything. It isn't personal, I just don't think he has the arm to make the throws and hit guys in stride with consistency, especially deep and I think that is part of the Rams offensive strategy; run a lot and get the defense cheating up and then throw long and catch them off guard. Keenum doesn't have that kind of deep accuracy. He will leave plays on the field. I do love how he can scramble though and keep plays alive. If Mannion had that ability I think he would be the starter next season, because he has the arm talent imo.

 

[-X-]

I'm not seeing the issue here. McNabb and Culpepper were both Pro Bowl QBs. Culpepper wrecked his knee which changed his game and highlighted the flaws he had. But he was a good QB prior to that. And Couch was ruined by Cleveland. I think he's a franchise QB if he lands anywhere else. If you look at the team around him, they had absolutely no talent. And the dude still led them to the playoffs once and had some solid years there. I'm talking worse than the 2009 Rams bad.

Plus, Aaron Brooks developed into a solid starting QB. All in all, that wasn't a bad QB class. I'd say 2011 is the class that I'd be most worried about this one being like. Four first round QBs and every QB not named Cam Newton busted hard.(although, you did have Dalton, Kaepernick, and Tyrod Taylor drafted outside the first round in that class)

I'd prefer not to get into semantics about that QB class, so I'll just yield to your judgement of how it panned out.
But I subtly highlighted the part that worries me the most.

Yes, I realize we have Gurley and Austin and a developing line.

 

[-X-]

Maybe but I would bet with Aaron Rodgers on the team that the Rams could score more points per game. I get that you are putting all of your chips in the Keenum corner. And don't think I hate him or anything. It isn't personal, I just don't think he has the arm to make the throws and hit guys in stride with consistency, especially deep and I think that is part of the Rams offensive strategy; run a lot and get the defense cheating up and then throw long and catch them off guard. Keenum doesn't have that kind of deep accuracy. He will leave plays on the field. I do love how he can scramble though and keep plays alive. If Mannion had that ability I think he would be the starter next season, because he has the arm talent imo.

Couple of things.

1. I would bet that Aaron Rodgers would only do a little better than Bradford with Gibson/Amendola as his primary receiving threats.
And I bet he would have also been killed behind the 2007-2009 offensive lines with the receivers they had.

2. I'm not putting all of my chips in the Keenum corner. I'm putting all of my chips in the idea that we need better receivers.
Not 2nd-3rd round receivers like Bailey, Quick, Pettis, Salas, Kendricks, Gilyard, etc.

3. I agree with your assumption of our strategy. Because that's what it is. Run, run, run, catch them with play-action.
However, I disagree with your assessment of Keenum's ability to flourish in a system like that (with receivers who can exploit man coverage)

4. We don't know that Mannion *doesn't* have that ability. Fisher/Snead may have been keeping him on ice.

 

[Dodgersrf]

And if we don't?

There are no guarantees.
The fact still remains that most serviceable QB's are taken in the 1st rnd. Guys that were generally tagged with the most upside.

Every year we wait, is another year of development lost. All qb's need the time to develop.

 

[snackdaddy]

So do we think the Rams are a legit playoff contender? Or are they still in a state of rebuilding? If they consider themselves to be a legit playoff contender, do they roll the dice with a rookie quarterback? Or do they sit him until they think he's ready? Can they afford to basically give up that pick for a year or two? Or do they draft another position they think can come in and start from day one? Can Fisher pass on a defensive stud if there is one there at 15? Or a playmaking receiver?

There's a lot to sort out. I believe they're better with Keenum than they were last year with Foles. Foles went 4-7 as a starter. If Keenum was the starter from day one I gotta think we coulda won a couple more of those games. Maybe not enough for playoffs but we coulda had our first winning season in over a decade.

I think Fisher has to have a playoff contender. He doesn't have the luxury of using a premium pick on a quarterback and waiting for him to develop a year or two later. I wouldn't be surprised if they kick the tires on a vet via trade or one of the free agents. If not, they roll with Keenum. They're in better shape now than the first half last year. The line doesn't seem to be a liability. Gurley will be 100 percent on day one. And Keenum with have the confidence he may have lacked before he became a starter.

 

[Dodgersrf]

2. I'm not putting all of my chips in the Keenum corner. I'm putting all of my chips in the idea that we need better receivers.
Not 2nd-3rd round receivers like Bailey, Quick, Pettis, Salas, Kendricks, Gilyard, etc.

This statement isn't lost on me either.
I do believe we would win more with better pass catchers. Even with Kennum as the QB.
However. There is no more important player, on any football team, than the QB.

 

[-X-]

There are no guarantees.
The fact still remains that most serviceable QB's are taken in the 1st rnd. Guys that were generally tagged with the most upside.

Every year we wait, is another year of development lost. All qb's need the time to develop.

Mannion's had a couple of years. Do you think he's developed by now?
Honest question. I'm genuinely curious about what people think about that.

 

[-X-]

This statement isn't lost on me either.
I do believe we would win more with better pass catchers. Even with Kennum as the QB.
However. There is no more important player, on any football team, than the QB.

Those are mutually exclusive statements.
And I agree with them both.

 

[Loyal]

Mannion's had a couple of years. Do you think he's developed by now?
Honest question. I'm genuinely curious about what people think about that.

We drafted Mannion in 2015..what you talkin, about WILLIS!:boxing:

 

[Dodgersrf]

Mannion's had a couple of years. Do you think he's developed by now?
Honest question. I'm genuinely curious about what people think about that.

I wish I knew.
He's an X factor, because nobody, other than the coaching staff, really knows.
He has an NFL arm. I think we all know that.
Does he have the NFL acumen? Anticipation, accuracy? I don't know.

He sure looked good his 2013 season. He had better protection and talent around him.
His 2014 year, he didn't have the same talent around him.