Hole at WR is a problem

[NorthernRam]

He played 12 games each of the last two years.

I could understand the Rams having interest in his skillset but he could command number 1 receiver money, or close to it.

I proposed the Rams trade their first pick for him and give him a short contract like two years and a promise not to tag him. That would be an ‘all-in’ move for the next two years with Stafford.

If the Rams have only 2-3 years with Stafford is it best to draft a young receiver who may take time to develop?

If Tutu is so great then why was he only the fourth receiver last year? Why was he behind two players (Kupp, Robinson) that they aren’t resigning? And why was he only signed to a one year deal?

Drop the ‘People don’t watch the games’ BS. EVERYBODY on RoD watches the games closely. It’s fine if you have a different opinion about Tutu, but stop with the nonsense.

Elmgrove, please don't get your knickers in a knot.

You may recall that Tutu and Robinson started together when Kupp and Nucua were injured for a number of games last year.

Tutu was way more productive, much more dangerous and far more explosive.

Ask yourself why the Rams didn't offer a $10 million contract to Robinson like they did to Tutu? In fact, I'm of the opinion that Tutu was more effective than Kupp last year, as Kupp was noticeably unable to beat man coverage - which impacted our ability to move the ball.

Tutu was kept because of his elite ability to beat man coverage and back defenders off, which was a huge problem for our other receivers apart from Puka last year.

This limited our offence, and we were unable to move the ball when defences started loading up on man coverage game after game.

I contended all along that Tutu should have been way higher on our receiver depth chart, and there was no reason why he wasn't used on some deep shots over the middle in the Eagles playoff game. It could have been the difference in the game.

Elmgrove, don't take offence to my comment about people not watching closely because people routinely base their judgements of players based upon things like - as you said - the fact that Rams coaches had Tutu playing behind Kupp and Robinson last year - rather than a player's actual effectiveness.

I go further, I look at how a player plays against quality opponents.

Tutu was effective against opponents' top db's, whereas Robinson was not.

The fact that Tutu was retained over Kupp and Robinson is confirmation that after a detailed post-season assessment of their receivers, even the Rams coaching staff are now essentially acknowledging that they have undervalued Atwell's play and abilities.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Elmgrove, please don't get your knickers in a knot.

You may recall that Tutu and Robinson started together when Kupp and Nucua were injured for a number of games last year.

Tutu was way more productive, much more dangerous and far more explosive.

Ask yourself why the Rams didn't offer a $10 million contract to Robinson like they did to Tutu? In fact, I'm of the opinion that Tutu was more effective than Kupp last year, as Kupp was noticeably unable to beat man coverage - which impacted our ability to move the ball.

Tutu was kept because of his elite ability to beat man coverage and back defenders off, which was a huge problem for our other receivers apart from Puka last year.

This limited our offence, and we were unable to move the ball when defences started loading up on man coverage game after game.

I contended all along that Tutu should have been way higher on our receiver depth chart, and there was no reason why he wasn't used on some deep shots over the middle in the Eagles playoff game. It could have been the difference in the game.

Elmgrove, don't take offence to my comment about people not watching closely because people routinely base their judgements of players based upon things like - as you said - the fact that Rams coaches had Tutu playing behind Kupp and Robinson last year - rather than a player's actual effectiveness.

I go further, I look at how a player plays against quality opponents.

Tutu was effective against opponents' top db's, whereas Robinson was not.

The fact that Tutu was retained over Kupp and Robinson is confirmation that after a detailed post-season assessment of their receivers, even the Rams coaching staff are now essentially acknowledging that they have undervalued Atwell's play and abilities.

Tutu needs to be schemed open. When he gets bumped at the line it ruins his timing. He gets pushed around too easily. We’ve all seen it. He’s also not good at contested catches.

Was he productive when he played? He had a few good games, particularly against the 49ers and the Bears, but he was still viewed as the fourth best option. It’s not like they had no need for a good receiver, especially late in the season. When teams started to play man against the Rams and they bumped Kupp to the third option they still left Atwell in the four hole. He’s not a man beater.

Signing Tutu was a security signing. They couldn’t let Robinson and Kupp both walk without keeping a few players experienced in the offense. That’s why it was $10 million…..for one year. They are not committing to him for 3-4 more years. You read too much into it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Maybe McSnead have realised that they under-utilised Tutu? That, plus salary implications, has led them to where we are.

After all, we all make mistakes. What’s important is if/how we learn from them.

I doubt that McVay has had his head in the sand the last few years. He’s one of the best coaches in the league.

Atwell will always have the same problems and it’s all attributed to his size. He isn’t good at contested catches. He needs schemed open to get free releases at the line. He gets pushed off his routes too easily which ruins timing, in a timing based system.

Tutu got a one year deal. Thats not an endorsement for their confidence in him.

 

[NorthernRam]

I doubt that McVay has had his head in the sand the last few years. He’s one of the best coaches in the league.

Atwell will always have the same problems and it’s all attributed to his size. He isn’t good at contested catches. He needs schemed open to get free releases at the line. He gets pushed off his routes too easily which ruins timing, in a timing based system.

Tutu got a one year deal. Thats not an endorsement for their confidence in him.

Actually, the job of a receiver is to get open, and the man gets open all the time.

By the way, fewer of Atwell's catches are contested because his separation stats at at league elite levels.

Don't give me this rubbish about Atwell struggling in contested catches because that is no more true with him than it is with other receivers.

If people want to bring up his size, he can't do anything about that, but judge the man on the basis of his performance please.

By the way, receivers are schemed open all the time, that's the coach's job. That's why you have bunch formations, crossing patterns, presnap motion, etc., and even with that, lots of receivers can't get separation.
Atwell is amongst the best in the league at doing that.

The simple fact is that when given the opportunity, the man produces, period.

Also, don't even get into the arguments about blocking. A receiver's primary role is to get open, catch the ball, burn defenders, open up the field, and create space for the offence, and preferably strike fear into the defence.

Is Jerry Rice in the Hall of Fame because he was a good blocker? Marvin Harrison? Lynn Swan?
My point is, that that's not a receiver's primary role and I find that the Rams maybe overemphasize this and haven't stressed having dynamic playmakers. The Rams got lucky with Puka and they chose well with Kupp, both of them are exemplary blockers and great with YAC, but it's clear that we need to get faster.

Let's address this thing about Atwell's $10 million one year contract. You say that it's a sign of lack of confidence in Atwell.

On the contrary, the fact that he was given $10million in spite of being shortchanged playing opportunities is a clear sign that the Rams knew that he would be snatched up, likely by a division rival, and that he'd likely come back to burn them.

$10million is a fair amount to dish out for a part time player, who doesn't have big stats (due to underutilization).

A 1-year contract actually works out well for both parties here, as Atwell maintains the potential for a big free agent contract next year, and the team maintains salary cap flexibility to potentially re-sign upcoming free agents after the season.

To me, this also not an underdog story where sometimes fans root for a Rudy, a fringe, undersized, or underdog player with limited skills but lots of heart and grit.

Atwell can play, and he has qualities that the Rams in which the Rams have deficiencies - i.e., easy speed and smoothness.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Actually, the job of a receiver is to get open, and the man gets open all the time.

By the way, fewer of Atwell's catches are contested because his separation stats at at league elite levels.

Don't give me this rubbish about Atwell struggling in contested catches because that is no more true with him than it is with other receivers.

If people want to bring up his size, he can't do anything about that, but judge the man on the basis of his performance please.

By the way, receivers are schemed open all the time, that's the coach's job. That's why you have bunch formations, crossing patterns, presnap motion, etc., and even with that, lots of receivers can't get separation.
Atwell is amongst the best in the league at doing that.

The simple fact is that when given the opportunity, the man produces, period.

Also, don't even get into the arguments about blocking. A receiver's primary role is to get open, catch the ball, burn defenders, open up the field, and create space for the offence, and preferably strike fear into the defence.

Is Jerry Rice in the Hall of Fame because he was a good blocker? Marvin Harrison? Lynn Swan?
My point is, that that's not a receiver's primary role and I find that the Rams maybe overemphasize this and haven't stressed having dynamic playmakers. The Rams got lucky with Puka and they chose well with Kupp, both of them are exemplary blockers and great with YAC, butwit's clear that we need to get faster.

Let's address this thing about Atwell's $10 million one year contract. You say that it's a sign of lack of confidence in Atwell.

On the contrary, the fact that he was given $10million in spite of being shortchanged playing opportunities is a clear sign that the Rams knew that he would be snatched up, likely by a division rival, and that he'd likely come back to burn them.

$10million is a fair amount to dish out for a part time player, who doesn't have big stats (due to underutilization).

A 1-year contract actually works out well for both parties here, as Atwell maintains the potential for a big free agent contract next year, and the team maintains salary cap flexibility to potentially re-sign upcoming free agents after the season.

To me, this also not an underdog where sometimes fans root for a Rudy, a fringe, undersized, or underdog player with limited skills but lots of heart and grit.

Atwell can play, and he has qualities that the Rams in which the Rams have deficiencies - i.e., easy speed and smoothness.

Thanks. You’ve written another long winded post that says you think Tutu is great, despite having little to no evidence to back it up. Awesome.

 

[NorthernRam]

Thanks. You’ve written another long winded post that says you think Tutu is great, despite having little to no evidence to back it up. Awesome.

The evidence is my knowing the game of football.

By the way, you never really gave an explanation as to why the Rams kept Atwell over Robinson and Kupp. I think that that's a clear indication about the team's view of their relative worth and abilities at this stage.

Please feel free to refute anything I've said using logic and reason.

As for Atwell, my point is that he hasn't been given the chance to show that he's "great".

What is certain is that he has been criminally underutilized by the Rams.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The evidence is my knowing the game of football.

By the way, you never really gave an explanation as to why the Rams kept Atwell over Robinson and Kupp. I think that that's a clear indication about the team's view of their relative worth and abilities at this stage.

Please feel free to refute anything I've said using logic and reason.

As for Atwell, my point is that he hasn't been given the chance to show that he's "great".

What is certain is that he has been criminally underutilized by the Rams.

Ah, that’s right. You actually watch the games while the rest of us just look at the depth chart. You just schooled us on a backup receiver.

 

[bubbaramfan]

TuTu with this WR room will be stretching the field, going deep and getting Puka and Adams room to get open. McVay is creaming his Levi's making up plays for this group.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

TuTu with this WR room will be stretching the field, going deep and getting Puka and Adams room to get open. McVay is creaming his Levi's making up plays for this group.

Except Tutu wasn’t doing that when they needed him to in the last four years.

Brandon Cooks did that. Even Van Jefferson did that. They could have used some of that field stretching at the end of the season when teams were playing man and blanketing the Rams receivers.

 

[NorthernRam]

Ah, that’s right. You actually watch the games while the rest of us just look at the depth chart. You just schooled us on a backup receiver.

Careful with the labels.

I don't care about whether a player is a starter or a backup, their draft position, salary, seniority, the school they attended or the Division they played in.

All I care about is what they do between the lines.

 

[Psycho_X]

Hole no more!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Careful with the labels.

I don't care about whether a player is a starter or a backup, their draft position, salary, seniority, the school they attended or the Division they played in.

All I care about is what they do between the lines.

So, you are claiming that giving Tutu a one year contract is an indication that McVay suddenly came to his senses and said “Damn, we’ve underutilized this young stud!” ?

Snead said they aren’t pursuing Robinson and we know Kupp is a goner. So before signing Adams that left two receivers with experience in this offense on the roster : Nacua and Atwell. Did it really make sense to only leave one receiver on the roster with more than one years worth of experience, that knew this offense? Should they have gone into the offseason with just Puka and Whittington on the roster? The answer is No. So they signed Tutu to a one year deal to get them through another season and not completely drain their depth. Signing him to a one year deal is no indication that he’s a break out star. If it was a three year deal I’d say, maybe you’re right ……. There’s your explanation.

I’m glad you think you know football, but so do a lot of people here. Just express your opinion without suggesting others don’t really watch or know what they are seeing. You can love Tutu all you want. I see him optimally as fourth option that is very limited by his size. By midseason I expect Whittington to control the third receiver spot.

 

[Merlin]

TuTu with this WR room will be stretching the field, going deep and getting Puka and Adams room to get open. McVay is creaming his Levi's making up plays for this group.

Stafford will probably miss him with that deep ball, but hopefully he'll get knocked down and get us some PI calls.

Well now I sound like a hater. But what the Rams are paying him shows the reality. So the Tutu apologists need to save the victory laps for Tutu actually charting consistent production game to game.

For now let's all agree we hope that Tutu is a bargain at $11M for 2025.

 

[NorthernRam]

So, you are claiming that giving Tutu a one year contract is an indication that McVay suddenly came to his senses and said “Damn, we’ve underutilized this young stud!” ?

Snead said they aren’t pursuing Robinson and we know Kupp is a goner. So before signing Adams that left two receivers with experience in this offense on the roster : Nacua and Atwell. Did it really make sense to only leave one receiver on the roster with more than one years worth of experience, that knew this offense? Should they have gone into the offseason with just Puka and Whittington on the roster? The answer is No. So they signed Tutu to a one year deal to get them through another season and not completely drain their depth. Signing him to a one year deal is no indication that he’s a break out star. If it was a three year deal I’d say, maybe you’re right ……. There’s your explanation.

I’m glad you think you know football, but so do a lot of people here. Just express your opinion without suggesting others don’t really watch or know what they are seeing. You can love Tutu all you want. I see him optimally as fourth option that is very limited by his size. By midseason I expect Whittington to control the third receiver spot.

What I am saying is that it's quite clear that the Rams had aggressive plans for what they want for the wide receiver room this season - Kupp out, Robinson out, Tutu re-signed and Puka and Whittington coming back, along with some new draftees, UDA's and possibly Xavier Smith.

Davante Adams being available was mere luck. In any event the Rams were going to draft or sign a receiver to play opposite Puka.

Maybe you believe that Tutu being re-signed was merely a fallback position, and was done to keep another veteran in the house, but I don't.

Having been paralyzed by man defences and not being able to score down the stretch last season, Rams want their receivers faster, more dynamic and able to beat man coverage.

Whether Whittington moves ahead of Atwell next year is really not the point sir.

The fact that Atwell was kept and Robinson and Kupp are going out the door is.

It's specific receiving skillsets that the Rams appear to prioritizing, in order to have a more productive offence this season.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

What I am saying is that it's quite clear that the Rams had aggressive plans for what they want for the wide receiver room this season - Kupp out, Robinson out, Tutu re-signed and Puka and Whittington coming back, along with some new draftees, UDA's and possibly Xavier Smith.

Davante Adams being available was mere luck. In any event the Rams were going to draft or sign a receiver to play opposite Puka.

Maybe you believe that Tutu being re-signed was merely a fallback position, and was done to keep another veteran in the house, but I don't.

Having been paralyzed by man defences and not being able to score down the stretch last season, Rams want their receivers faster, more dynamic and able to beat man coverage.

Whether Whittington moves ahead of Atwell next year is really not the point sir.

The fact that Atwell was kept and Robinson and Kupp are going out the door is.

It's specific receiving skillsets that the Rams appear to prioritizing, in order to have a more productive offence this season.

Adams being mere luck, may not be accurate. He’s been rumored to be released by the Jets for weeks. Jourdan said McVay really wanted Adams and put the full court press on him. The Rams wanted Mike Evans last year. They thought they had him and he change his mind. That move could have been a game changer. They got a pretty good consolation in Adams this year.

I’m not saying Tutu is atrocious, just limited. However, if he was a great man beater then why didn’t they play him at the end of the season? Kupp was struggling, but apparently they trusted Kupp over Atwell.

In the end I hope you are right and Tutu plays great all year. I always root for every Ram, even guys like Noteboom and Allen despite thinking they were terrible for years. I’ll gladly eat crow if Tutu plays well. I just don’t think it’s likely that he suddenly turns into a great receiver after four years of mediocrity, because his biggest obstacle isn’t his knowledge, it’s his size and he cannot change that.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I see it as a hole in the roster, but not a problem....
I got a feeling this board is gonna be pretty damn happy with the Rams moves this off-season.

Hole no prob no mo

 

[Tano]

Adams being mere luck, may not be accurate. He’s been rumored to be released by the Jets for weeks. Jourdan said McVay really wanted Adams and put the full court press on him. The Rams wanted Mike Evans last year. They thought they had him and he change his mind. That move could have been a game changer. They got a pretty good consolation in Adams this year.

I’m not saying Tutu is atrocious, just limited. However, if he was a great man beater then why didn’t they play him at the end of the season? Kupp was struggling, but apparently they trusted Kupp over Atwell.

In the end I hope you are right and Tutu plays great all year. I always root for every Ram, even guys like Noteboom and Allen despite thinking they were terrible for years. I’ll gladly eat crow if Tutu plays well. I just don’t think it’s likely that he suddenly turns into a great receiver after four years of mediocrity, because his biggest obstacle isn’t his knowledge, it’s his size and he cannot change that.

It annoyed me that they didn't put in Tutu more than 3 or 4 plays in the game against Green Bay. Eagles. (Mod Edit)

If Stafford threw just two deep balls to Tutu in that game, it might have open up the passing game in that game.

As it was, it wasn't until late in the 4th qtr that we got the passing game going in the second half while it was snowing.

 

[FrantikRam]

Except Tutu wasn’t doing that when they needed him to in the last four years.

Brandon Cooks did that. Even Van Jefferson did that. They could have used some of that field stretching at the end of the season when teams were playing man and blanketing the Rams receivers.

And as you have pointed out, coaches/GMs are not infallible.

It made zero sense having Robinson play over Tutu down the stretch last year. I gave McVay the benefit of the doubt thinking surely its an off the field thing. I can't even say run blocking, because Robinson didn't do that.

The only thing that makes sense is that Adams is taking Robinson's role, and Tutu is taking Kupp. From that vantage, of course Tutu wasn't going to start over Kupp.

But he did play pretty well last year. There are numbers to back that up like yards per route run.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

And as you have pointed out, coaches/GMs are not infallible.

It made zero sense having Robinson play over Tutu down the stretch last year. I gave McVay the benefit of the doubt thinking surely its an off the field thing. I can't even say run blocking, because Robinson didn't do that.

The only thing that makes sense is that Adams is taking Robinson's role, and Tutu is taking Kupp. From that vantage, of course Tutu wasn't going to start over Kupp.

But he did play pretty well last year. There are numbers to back that up like yards per route run.

Yes, coaches are fallible. The Reeder thing drove me nuts. So did signing Noteboom. I’d been saying he wasn’t good since his first few games.

But, there are things we can’t see that go beyond play on the field. Is Atwell running the plays correctly every time? Is he always where he’s supposed to be? Or is it simply that Stafford says it’s a lot harder to see him and prefers a bigger target? He was drafted in round two. Then he hardly played in year one.

Maybe McVay plans on simplifying the route tree for Tutu. Jourdan said that Puka will be in Kupp’s role, Adams will be Woods and Tutu will be Cooks, or Jefferson. Cooks and Jefferson were mostly the deep threat. I think we all thought that was Tutu’s job anyway, but the coaches opted for Demarcus instead.

Maybe, Tutu ended up not being good at what they wanted him to be good at. So, his skills were redundant, keeping him on the bench. Maybe he he’s a smaller, lesser version of Puka and not a deep threat.

Or it could be simple and his size does not allow him to play to the level that he played in college. I don’t see him getting anymore separation than other receivers, on the Rams, which isn’t good at his size. It’s likely that his speed is what got him drafted where he was picked. But when I watch him play I don’t think of prime Brandin Cooks.

 

[FrantikRam]

Yes, coaches are fallible. The Reeder thing drove me nuts. So did signing Noteboom. I’d been saying he wasn’t good since his first few games.

But, there are things we can’t see that go beyond play on the field. Is Atwell running the plays correctly every time? Is he always where he’s supposed to be? Or is it simply that Stafford says it’s a lot harder to see him and prefers a bigger target? He was drafted in round two. Then he hardly played in year one.

Maybe McVay plans on simplifying the route tree for Tutu. Jourdan said that Puka will be in Kupp’s role, Adams will be Woods and Tutu will be Cooks, or Jefferson. Cooks and Jefferson were mostly the deep threat. I think we all thought that was Tutu’s job anyway, but the coaches opted for Demarcus instead.

Maybe, Tutu ended up not being good at what they wanted him to be good at. So, his skills were redundant, keeping him on the bench. Maybe he he’s a smaller, lesser version of Puka and not a deep threat.

Or it could be simple and his size does not allow him to play to the level that he played in college. I don’t see him getting anymore separation than other receivers, on the Rams, which isn’t good at his size. It’s likely that his speed is what got him drafted where he was picked. But when I watch him play I don’t think of prime Brandin Cooks.

It could also be that fans who never liked the pick and ragged on the players for years are going to keep doing so.

He played well last year when he got a chance. That really wasn't difficult to see. I disagree about the separation - on multiple times he ran comeback routes where the CB was afraid of his speed and was wide open - that was and is an element that nobody else in the room brings.