Hole at WR is a problem

[Merlin]

It could also be that fans who never liked the pick and ragged on the players for years are going to keep doing so.

It could be that's the lazy human way to attempt to disarm the opposing opinion.

 

[Ramstien]

I will say when Kupp and Puka were not available Tutu came up big. His ability to take the top off defenses is what helped Puka and Kupp be successful underneath.

 

[Merlin]

I will say when Kupp and Puka were not available Tutu came up big.

In the games Kupp & Nacua were not available the Rams were 2-3. Tutu did step his game up a bit but it wasn't even close to what either of those two provide in terms of being able to move the chains and score points and actually win games.

FA comes and clearly Tutu had very little interest on the FA market, so he signs with the Rams on a one year prove-it type deal at $11M. Which seems to be the basic value for that level of contract at the WR position.

For 2025 maybe there are big plans for him and perhaps Tutu shows out. I would love that. But this need to crown the little bastid before he earns it is BS. This need to act like the Rams somehow wronged him by not focusing everything on him, when we clearly saw this team was not a playoff caliber unit without Kupp and Nacua. Tutu was simply not good enough to reverse that fact.

Considering what it looks like with an actual X function out there that teams have to worry about in Adams is exciting. Plus Nacua offering the underneath threat. Because now maybe Tutu can be that dagger for the offense like Hakim was at times for the GSoT, Welker with the Patriots, etc. But the truth is little dudes require the big dogs to eat attention, unless they're that rare dog like Steve Smith. And he ain't that.

 

[DzRams]

I’m not saying Tutu is atrocious, just limited. However, if he was a great man beater then why didn’t they play him at the end of the season? Kupp was struggling, but apparently they trusted Kupp over Atwell.

This logic leans into the 'coaches are infallible' mentality. We're using a previous coaching decision to support that Tutu is limited. What if the coaches didn't make a good decision then?

Now the coaches are saying we're gonna change things up and Tutu's skillset is what we need. Shouldn't this coaching decision outweigh the previous decision?

As to Tutu being a man beater I wouldn't say that's his strength but the metrics show that he was superior in that area to Kupp last year.

 

[DzRams]

In the games Kupp & Nacua were not available the Rams were 2-3. Tutu did step his game up a bit but it wasn't even close to what either of those two provide in terms of being able to move the chains and score points and actually win games.

FA comes and clearly Tutu had very little interest on the FA market, so he signs with the Rams on a one year prove-it type deal at $11M. Which seems to be the basic value for that level of contract at the WR position.

For 2025 maybe there are big plans for him and perhaps Tutu shows out. I would love that. But this need to crown the little bastid before he earns it is BS. This need to act like the Rams somehow wronged him by not focusing everything on him, when we clearly saw this team was not a playoff caliber unit without Kupp and Nacua. Tutu was simply not good enough to reverse that fact.

Considering what it looks like with an actual X function out there that teams have to worry about in Adams is exciting. Plus Nacua offering the underneath threat. Because now maybe Tutu can be that dagger for the offense like Hakim was at times for the GSoT, Welker with the Patriots, etc. But the truth is little dudes require the big dogs to eat attention, unless they're that rare dog like Steve Smith. And he ain't that.

Hey, this is the first acknowledgment from you that Tutu stepped up his game when called on. Progress! Lol...

You're right that relative to Nacua his production wasn't close. But that assertion is erroneous when compared against Kupp's production. Tutu's per game averages over the 5 game period last year surpass what Kupp averaged per game (about 59 yards/game).

Also, saying that our team wasn't a playoff-caliber team with Tutu isn't a fair statement given that half the offense - Kupp, Puka, 3/5ths of the OL - was hurt. It's kind of obvious that one guy isn't gonna make up for that.

But I do agree with you on him needing other big dogs to take the attention. He can't be the focal point of an offense. We'll see if McVay can figure out how to plug him into a role that fits him where he'll be very productive.

 

[Tano]

It annoyed me that they didn't put in Tutu more than 3 or 4 plays in the game against Green Bay.

If Stafford threw just two deep balls to Tutu in that game, it might have open up the passing game in that game.

As it was, it wasn't until late in the 4th qtr that we got the passing game going in the second half while it was snowing.

meant eagles

 

[Karate61]

In the games Kupp & Nacua were not available the Rams were 2-3. Tutu did step his game up a bit but it wasn't even close to what either of those two provide in terms of being able to move the chains and score points and actually win games.

FA comes and clearly Tutu had very little interest on the FA market, so he signs with the Rams on a one year prove-it type deal at $11M. Which seems to be the basic value for that level of contract at the WR position.

For 2025 maybe there are big plans for him and perhaps Tutu shows out. I would love that. But this need to crown the little bastid before he earns it is BS. This need to act like the Rams somehow wronged him by not focusing everything on him, when we clearly saw this team was not a playoff caliber unit without Kupp and Nacua. Tutu was simply not good enough to reverse that fact.

Considering what it looks like with an actual X function out there that teams have to worry about in Adams is exciting. Plus Nacua offering the underneath threat. Because now maybe Tutu can be that dagger for the offense like Hakim was at times for the GSoT, Welker with the Patriots, etc. But the truth is little dudes require the big dogs to eat attention, unless they're that rare dog like Steve Smith. And he ain't that.

You laid that out pretty nicely!

 

[snackdaddy]

In order to justify bringing Tutu back at that price they're gonna have to find a way to use him they way they planned when they drafted him. Why it hasn't panned out is anyone's guess. I gotta think trust was an issue. With both McVay and Stafford. Don't know what's changed. If he doesn't show something this time its gonna be a waste of a roster spot and 10 mil. Maybe he'll have more targets and be a better contributor. I hope so. He is the one guy that can stretch the field.

 

[NorthernRam]

In the games Kupp & Nacua were not available the Rams were 2-3. Tutu did step his game up a bit but it wasn't even close to what either of those two provide in terms of being able to move the chains and score points and actually win games.

FA comes and clearly Tutu had very little interest on the FA market, so he signs with the Rams on a one year prove-it type deal at $11M. Which seems to be the basic value for that level of contract at the WR position.

For 2025 maybe there are big plans for him and perhaps Tutu shows out. I would love that. But this need to crown the little bastid before he earns it is BS. This need to act like the Rams somehow wronged him by not focusing everything on him, when we clearly saw this team was not a playoff caliber unit without Kupp and Nacua. Tutu was simply not good enough to reverse that fact.

Considering what it looks like with an actual X function out there that teams have to worry about in Adams is exciting. Plus Nacua offering the underneath threat. Because now maybe Tutu can be that dagger for the offense like Hakim was at times for the GSoT, Welker with the Patriots, etc. But the truth is little dudes require the big dogs to eat attention, unless they're that rare dog like Steve Smith. And he ain't that.

You seem to be forgetting a very major point.

When Kupp and Nacua were out last year and Atwell and Robinson were starting, the O-Line was completely banged up and we were playing backups, shuffling bodies in and out and playing guys out of position.

You seem to forget that Stafford was having to throw under duress on every dropback, and there was no Oline continuity at all. Adjustments were made, and routes were shortened to get the ball out as quickly as possible.

In spite of that Atwell had really good numbers in those circumstances, far superior to Robinson's, while drawing the tougher db assignments.

Also, saying that Atwell drew little interest in free agency is off the mark. What was your source for that? The Rams moved to sign him immediately at the opening of free agency, and $10million is a very decent salary for a nonstarting player.

By contrast, Robinson and a host of other free agent passcatchers are still on the market. The market for Robinson is rumored to be in the $3million range, though he does have a pending legal case hanging over him.

Also, your reference to Atwell's size is irritating, it would be nice if people would get over the talk about his size, really just get over it. He won't be growing any more

Judge him, like any player by his performance.

You can make a case that from a pure receiving perspective, Atwell offered more than Kupp last year and certainly opened up the field better, and scared defences a lot more.

Our passing offence last year was very one-dimensional - essentially it was the Puka show, and it speaks to Puka's dominance that he was basically unstoppable despite drawing double teams, overloads, and most of the focus of the defence.

 

[dieterbrock]

In order to justify bringing Tutu back at that price they're gonna have to find a way to use him they way they planned when they drafted him. Why it hasn't panned out is anyone's guess. I gotta think trust was an issue. With both McVay and Stafford. Don't know what's changed. If he doesn't show something this time its gonna be a waste of a roster spot and 10 mil. Maybe he'll have more targets and be a better contributor. I hope so. He is the one guy that can stretch the field.

There are many compelling arguments and data points presented that support why Atwell is back, why he got the money and why he can be successful. I for sure have been down on him due to the perceived lack of production but cant deny the validity of some of the reasons to be positive about his potential.
The thing I cant get my head around is the Kupp situation, how the door seemed irreversibly closed. Maybe the Occam's razor answer is that they wouldnt bump Kupp for Atwell under any circumstance. And that loyalty was hurting the team, so the only way to move forward was to move on

 

[snackdaddy]

There are many compelling arguments and data points presented that support why Atwell is back, why he got the money and why he can be successful. I for sure have been down on him due to the perceived lack of production but cant deny the validity of some of the reasons to be positive about his potential.
The thing I cant get my head around is the Kupp situation, how the door seemed irreversibly closed. Maybe the Occam's razor answer is that they wouldnt bump Kupp for Atwell under any circumstance. And that loyalty was hurting the team, so the only way to move forward was to move on

Yeah, I get the argument for both sides. If he has potential he's had 4 years to show it. What makes us think this is the year when he hasn't reached that potential?

The other side is, I've seen what he can do. He runs decent routes. Can get open. Has good hands. Can track the ball and make the catch. Then there is that speed. He's gonna be the fastest guy on the field most times he's out there. He's a far better receiver than Tavon Austin ever was.

The bottom line is, they're gonna have to use him more than they have. I think it goes back to the trust issue. Stafford does tend to lock in on his favorite receiver. The offense is much better when he spreads it around. Does he not look Tutu's way when they need that first down?

 

[WestCoastRam]

And as you have pointed out, coaches/GMs are not infallible.

It made zero sense having Robinson play over Tutu down the stretch last year. I gave McVay the benefit of the doubt thinking surely its an off the field thing. I can't even say run blocking, because Robinson didn't do that.

The only thing that makes sense is that Adams is taking Robinson's role, and Tutu is taking Kupp. From that vantage, of course Tutu wasn't going to start over Kupp.

But he did play pretty well last year. There are numbers to back that up like yards per route run.

Yeah, I think what actually makes less sense was why Tutu wasn't taking snaps from Kupp down the stretch, not Robinson.

But sitting Kupp would have come with multiple headaches.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I posted Jourdan on both Davante and Atwell in the other thread, I think she tells you exactly what theyr'e thinking with him and it's a packaged deal with Davante in many ways.

 

[DzRams]

There are many compelling arguments and data points presented that support why Atwell is back, why he got the money and why he can be successful. I for sure have been down on him due to the perceived lack of production but cant deny the validity of some of the reasons to be positive about his potential.
The thing I cant get my head around is the Kupp situation, how the door seemed irreversibly closed. Maybe the Occam's razor answer is that they wouldnt bump Kupp for Atwell under any circumstance. And that loyalty was hurting the team, so the only way to move forward was to move on

You hit the nail on the head.

I've started suspecting that one of McVay's quarks is that he doesn't want to tell his respected vet, team leaders that "we're not gonna play you 97% of the snaps anymore. You're gonna sit behind this new guy." It seems he'd rather just trade them and move on. This is what happened with Jones and Kupp.

That's the only thing that can explain why the Rams don't even want to renegotiate the contract. They already have a young replacement in mind.

 

[bubbaramfan]

All of your opinions have been disarmed.

Start a new thread.

 

[RamFan503]

DK Metcalf would be my favorite option, even though it’s extremely unlikely.

He’s not always dominating but he’s had mediocre QB’s throwing him the ball. Geno Smith is no Matt Stafford.

Geno threw for over 4000 yards and DK still didn't get to 1,000 yards. The dude would be a major head case and doesn't strike me as putting his team first. Glad he went elsewhere. Actually, I think the Steelers are a good location for him with Tomlin as HC.

I’m not saying Tutu is atrocious, just limited. However, if he was a great man beater then why didn’t they play him at the end of the season? Kupp was struggling, but apparently they trusted Kupp over Atwell.

Is anyone arguing that TuTu is suddenly better than Kupp? It's not like TuTu got #1 money. TuTu is a completely different chess piece and would never be considered a replacement for a receiver like Kupp.

Moving on from Kupp appears to be a real change in direction for the offense - as some have said, ripping the band-aide off. I just don't think you do that 3/4 of the way through the season. I definitely got the impression from listening to McVay that he was going to make some major changes to the offense and the strategy behind it. I think our FA moves are demonstrating that.

A small side issue is that you also would be removing any real chance of getting a return for Kupp if you suddenly stopped trotting him out there. This is not to even consider taking a big body receiver off the field.

FA comes and clearly Tutu had very little interest on the FA market, so he signs with the Rams on a one year prove-it type deal at $11M. Which seems to be the basic value for that level of contract at the WR position.

For 2025 maybe there are big plans for him and perhaps Tutu shows out. I would love that. But this need to crown the little bastid before he earns it is BS. This need to act like the Rams somehow wronged him by not focusing everything on him, when we clearly saw this team was not a playoff caliber unit without Kupp and Nacua. Tutu was simply not good enough to reverse that fact.

I'm not sure how you know anything about his FA market. Has there been any news on that either way? The Rams moved to sign him before anyone else had the opportunity. It could be that there was quite a bit of interest.

I don't see how defending us keeping him is somehow crowning him in any way. As you said, it's a 1 year prove it deal. Now he needs to prove out. But I think the only real reason that he was resigned is that they had a vision of going in another direction - a shift that you are very unlikely to try to pull off most of the way through the season with the playoffs a real possibility. Hopefully TuTu can help in that direction. If not, it's a 1 year deal with the only downside being the salary. If he hits better benchmarks, IMO he is very much worth that salary compared to other receivers in similar positions.

I assumed from the moment we resigned the diminutive receiver that we were going to see a new offensive design. I think the signing of DA just further cements that. I will also not be surprised in the least if we go after a potential game breaking RB with our first pick just to further that agenda.

But I do agree with you on him needing other big dogs to take the attention. He can't be the focal point of an offense.

Absolutely. And I don't expect him to have a huge increase over last year. I'm thinking around 700 maybe 800 yards, and a few more big PI calls. I see him being used between the 20s more than in redzone, so he probably won't have much of a scoring impact (stats-wise).

answer is that they wouldnt bump Kupp for Atwell under any circumstance. And that loyalty was hurting the team, so the only way to move forward was to move on

I think there may be a lot to this theory.

Yeah, I think what actually makes less sense was why Tutu wasn't taking snaps from Kupp down the stretch, not Robinson.

Always a good question. My thought is overall offensive design. I don't think we had many teams double teaming even Puka - certainly not Kupp. They also didn't fear our TEs or a game breaking running game. We played gritty football. This season, I think you're going to see a more explosive offense and a very active defense.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's going to be a really fun year on both sides of the ball and TuTu is going to be a bigger part of that.

 

[RamFan503]

All of your opinions have been disarmed.

Start a new thread.

???

Who or what is that aimed at?

 

[Merlin]

I'm not sure how you know anything about his FA market.

If he was a hot commodity he would have made much more than $11M.

 

[DzRams]

If he was a hot commodity he would have made much more than $11M.

He resigned with the Rams 4 days before free agency started. So how again?

 

[DzRams]

Absolutely. And I don't expect him to have a huge increase over last year. I'm thinking around 700 maybe 800 yards, and a few more big PI calls. I see him being used between the 20s more than in redzone, so he probably won't have much of a scoring impact (stats-wise).

I see his use the same as you do. I'm also betting that he gets yards but low TD numbers. My guesstimate on the yards is a little more optimistic. With double the snaps, I see 700-1000 yards.

Probably most critical is if that speed affects how defenses play us. There can be a synergy between Puka / Davante / Atwell where each helps free the others.