Goff vs Wentz. Will it be flexed?

[jacktheripper85]

Stats are just tools....they can be used to manipulate any conversation.

Certain stats say something...some say nothing.

Again, we play head to head on Dec. 10th

I'll be pulling for the Rams....but I'm sure Wentz will show many of you why I like him as a player.

You’re right, certain stats do say something. So if you don’t think going from 0-7 and labeled a total bust to 5-2 and division leader isn’t an indictment on last years coaching staff vs Goff’s ability than I don’t know what to tell you.

That’s like saying if Tom Brady got drafted by the Browns instead of the Patriots he would still have all these Super Bowl rings and be going into the Hall of Fame-he wouldn’t-he’d be going into a wheelchair.

 

[dieterbrock]

That’s like saying if Tom Brady got drafted by the Browns instead of the Patriots he would still have all these Super Bowl rings and be going into the Hall of Fame-he wouldn’t-he’d be going into a wheelchair.

How about Tom Brady rookie season? He was awful! only 33% comp and a passer rating of 42.4

 

[LACHAMP46]

I don't think many around here won't say Wentz is a good great player.

Fixed this one for you OleSchool

The rest of us say think Goff is a good player and root for him over the Eagles QB.

Fixed this one too....

Ahh, so it's the semantics that have everyone ready to string me up....here, I'll help.

My claim, all along, has been, if one QB will be great, once in a lifetime type talent, I want him, because that's the easiest way to be relevant EVERY year...with superbowl aspirations...that's the QB I want....for my team...the Rams....
If the other QB will just be good....you know who was good??? Rich Gannon....Andy Dalton is good...Matt Ryan is good. Kirk Cousins is good...Those are GOOD QB's...
Now....the great QBs...only 2 playing now....Brady...and Rodgers.....that's it....not even Brees....not Rothlisburger...Not Carr....just Brady and Rodgers....So, I want the great QB...sorry for being greedy....I know what happens to good QB's in the playoffs...Dak is good....Winston is good....Wilson is good....bunch of good ones....How did Ryan get to a SB you say??? Doesn't matter, what happened when he got there? Huh??? What happened?

Give me the great player...everytime...and I'm hoping some of you out there....reading this....can look at a player...in college...and TELL who's gonna be good....and who's gonna be GREAT.

Wentz looks like he's gonna be special....

I hope ours will be good....he's at 59% completions.....yeah...he's this...Fish did that...he needs a whole year for this...more weapons for that...9 td's....in 7 games....good player. Ok....

 

[LACHAMP46]

How about Tom Brady rookie season? He was awful! only 33% comp and a passer rating of 42.4

you first db

I'm sure you were a Ram fan when we played the Pats in the super bowl. Tom's rookie year. We saw a guy march his team down field against a good rams defense...and kick a game winning fg. I saw this same rookie vs the Raiders....the tuck rule game...yes he did fumble...but even so, he gathered himself and led the team down the field....as a rookie. Stats lie....or sometimes, don't tell the truth. Tom could play.

You’re right, certain stats do say something. So if you don’t think going from 0-7 and labeled a total bust to 5-2 and division leader isn’t an indictment on last years coaching staff vs Goff’s ability than I don’t know what to tell you.

That’s like saying if Tom Brady got drafted by the Browns instead of the Patriots he would still have all these Super Bowl rings and be going into the Hall of Fame-he wouldn’t-he’d be going into a wheelchair.

O-7 to 5-2 is fantastic....
I'm taking the slant, that this is McVay's deal...his show...in fact, I believe we'd be 5-2 with Mannion or Case Keenum quarterbacking this team.

Listen to the teams montra....we just wanna get a lil better each week...beautiful concept...except, there is a player that's getting a lil worse each week...look closely....who's stats are declining...c'mon jack....you're a smart man....who's stats are DECLINING?????

That's an interesting point...imagine if Belichick had stayed at Cleveland???? And somehow had drafted Brady again....Could Belichick and Brady in Cleveland had won like they did in New England????

 

[Tano]

Fixed this one for you OleSchool
Fixed this one too....

Ahh, so it's the semantics that have everyone ready to string me up....here, I'll help.

My claim, all along, has been, if one QB will be great, once in a lifetime type talent, I want him, because that's the easiest way to be relevant EVERY year...with superbowl aspirations...that's the QB I want....for my team...the Rams....
If the other QB will just be good....you know who was good??? Rich Gannon....Andy Dalton is good...Matt Ryan is good. Kirk Cousins is good...Those are GOOD QB's...
Now....the great QBs...only 2 playing now....Brady...and Rodgers.....that's it....not even Brees....not Rothlisburger...Not Carr....just Brady and Rodgers....So, I want the great QB...sorry for being greedy....I know what happens to good QB's in the playoffs...Dak is good....Winston is good....Wilson is good....bunch of good ones....How did Ryan get to a SB you say??? Doesn't matter, what happened when he got there? Huh??? What happened?

Give me the great player...everytime...and I'm hoping some of you out there....reading this....can look at a player...in college...and TELL who's gonna be good....and who's gonna be GREAT.

Wentz looks like he's gonna be special....

I hope ours will be good....he's at 59% completions.....yeah...he's this...Fish did that...he needs a whole year for this...more weapons for that...9 td's....in 7 games....good player. Ok....

I think you could be right AND wrong

I think both Wentz AND Goff "will" be Great QBs.

And I hope I am at least right with Goff

 

[FrantikRam]

Fixed this one for you OleSchool
Fixed this one too....

Ahh, so it's the semantics that have everyone ready to string me up....here, I'll help.

My claim, all along, has been, if one QB will be great, once in a lifetime type talent, I want him, because that's the easiest way to be relevant EVERY year...with superbowl aspirations...that's the QB I want....for my team...the Rams....
If the other QB will just be good....you know who was good??? Rich Gannon....Andy Dalton is good...Matt Ryan is good. Kirk Cousins is good...Those are GOOD QB's...
Now....the great QBs...only 2 playing now....Brady...and Rodgers.....that's it....not even Brees....not Rothlisburger...Not Carr....just Brady and Rodgers....So, I want the great QB...sorry for being greedy....I know what happens to good QB's in the playoffs...Dak is good....Winston is good....Wilson is good....bunch of good ones....How did Ryan get to a SB you say??? Doesn't matter, what happened when he got there? Huh??? What happened?

Give me the great player...everytime...and I'm hoping some of you out there....reading this....can look at a player...in college...and TELL who's gonna be good....and who's gonna be GREAT.

Wentz looks like he's gonna be special....

I hope ours will be good....he's at 59% completions.....yeah...he's this...Fish did that...he needs a whole year for this...more weapons for that...9 td's....in 7 games....good player. Ok....

Wentz had a nice head start by having the same coach and offensive system. That Goff has made the progress that he has, while leading an offense virtually identical statistically to the Eagles, should tell you something.

BTW...in our two losses, Goff threw the game winning TD versus Seattle, and led the team back to tie the Redskins 20-20 in the 4th quarter. Sure, he threw the game ending INT, but great QBs have done that too. He's played well enough for us to be 7-0 - how can you find an issue with that?

 

[FrantikRam]

you first db

I'm sure you were a Ram fan when we played the Pats in the super bowl. Tom's rookie year. We saw a guy march his team down field against a good rams defense...and kick a game winning fg. I saw this same rookie vs the Raiders....the tuck rule game...yes he did fumble...but even so, he gathered himself and led the team down the field....as a rookie. Stats lie....or sometimes, don't tell the truth. Tom could play.
O-7 to 5-2 is fantastic....
I'm taking the slant, that this is McVay's deal...his show...in fact, I believe we'd be 5-2 with Mannion or Case Keenum quarterbacking this team.

Listen to the teams montra....we just wanna get a lil better each week...beautiful concept...except, there is a player that's getting a lil worse each week...look closely....who's stats are declining...c'mon jack....you're a smart man....who's stats are DECLINING?????

That was not Tom's rookie year. it was his 2nd year.

 

[jacktheripper85]

you first db

I'm sure you were a Ram fan when we played the Pats in the super bowl. Tom's rookie year. We saw a guy march his team down field against a good rams defense...and kick a game winning fg. I saw this same rookie vs the Raiders....the tuck rule game...yes he did fumble...but even so, he gathered himself and led the team down the field....as a rookie. Stats lie....or sometimes, don't tell the truth. Tom could play.
O-7 to 5-2 is fantastic....
I'm taking the slant, that this is McVay's deal...his show...in fact, I believe we'd be 5-2 with Mannion or Case Keenum quarterbacking this team.

Listen to the teams montra....we just wanna get a lil better each week...beautiful concept...except, there is a player that's getting a lil worse each week...look closely....who's stats are declining...c'mon jack....you're a smart man....who's stats are DECLINING?????

That's an interesting point...imagine if Belichick had stayed at Cleveland???? And somehow had drafted Brady again....Could Belichick and Brady in Cleveland had won like they did in New England????

Stats tend to decline when you face 2 of the top defenses in football the last few weeks vs inferior defenses who are missing their top corners. I actually find the Rams and Goff’s current performance even more noteworthy when you account for the fact that they’ve traveled around half the globe this past month.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Wentz had a nice head start by having the same coach and offensive system. That Goff has made the progress that he has, while leading an offense virtually identical statistically to the Eagles, should tell you something.

I'm curious....everyone says...since he was with Fisher....OK...I get it...yall hate Fisher....
But he doesn't have Fisher now...and he's had a year of experience....
No matter how much you guys wanna treat him like a rookie...he's a second year player.

BTW...in our two losses, Goff threw the game winning TD versus Seattle, and led the team back to tie the Redskins 20-20 in the 4th quarter. Sure, he threw the game ending INT, but great QBs have done that too. He's played well enough for us to be 7-0 - how can you find an issue with that?

We should be 7-0
He's played ok...pretty good...considering what he came thru last year...oh the horror....
I don't have much of an issue, other than we'll need more to succeed in the 2nd half of the season.
I never said he hasn't looked good.

Wentz has looked great. That's my only point....for the 3rd day now....I just wanted to ask guys....did you see that? do you now know why I like Wentz?!? He's better....he's probably the best young QB in the game.

That was not Tom's rookie year. it was his 2nd year.

you sir are correct...he was drafted in 2000....he threw one pass in 2000......does that help your argument?

 

[OldSchool]

Fixed this one for you OleSchool
Fixed this one too....

Ahh, so it's the semantics that have everyone ready to string me up....here, I'll help.

My claim, all along, has been, if one QB will be great, once in a lifetime type talent, I want him, because that's the easiest way to be relevant EVERY year...with superbowl aspirations...that's the QB I want....for my team...the Rams....
If the other QB will just be good....you know who was good??? Rich Gannon....Andy Dalton is good...Matt Ryan is good. Kirk Cousins is good...Those are GOOD QB's...
Now....the great QBs...only 2 playing now....Brady...and Rodgers.....that's it....not even Brees....not Rothlisburger...Not Carr....just Brady and Rodgers....So, I want the great QB...sorry for being greedy....I know what happens to good QB's in the playoffs...Dak is good....Winston is good....Wilson is good....bunch of good ones....How did Ryan get to a SB you say??? Doesn't matter, what happened when he got there? Huh??? What happened?

Give me the great player...everytime...and I'm hoping some of you out there....reading this....can look at a player...in college...and TELL who's gonna be good....and who's gonna be GREAT.

Wentz looks like he's gonna be special....

I hope ours will be good....he's at 59% completions.....yeah...he's this...Fish did that...he needs a whole year for this...more weapons for that...9 td's....in 7 games....good player. Ok....

Actually it's really easy and the rest of us know the truth. We root for Goff and want him to be the best. You want Wentz to be the best so you can tell us and the Rams you were right and everybody else is wrong.

You say a Wentz is great and great players win. After 14 games their completion percentage is 2 points higher with a lower ypc and 3 more TD 2 more int in 113 more attempts. Goff and Wentz have the same record after 14 games. Stats are very close yet you call Wentz great and Goff just OK. You make excuses for Wentz not winning more and blame Goff for not winning more. You make excuses for Wentz but refuse to acknowledge the damage Fisher did to Goff, you seem yo blame him more for it. We all get it, you just need to learn to live with Goff and a 5-2 record at the bye. You are so disingenuous on this debate it's sad. It's ok though the rest of us see good things in Goff and don't have to try to tear down other QBs to enjoy him leading the Rams.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Stats tend to decline when you face 2 of the top defenses in football the last few weeks vs inferior defenses who are missing their top corners. I actually find the Rams and Goff’s current performance even more noteworthy when you account for the fact that they’ve traveled around half the globe this past month.

Someone above brought up Tom Brady...you know what Tom did in his 2nd year? He completed 63% of his passes....his record was 11-3 in games started...Those are some nice numbers for a good 2nd year QB.

Now, you were say something about tougher competition??? Is Arizona a tough defensive team? I consider Jax and Seattle...other than those 2....

The points you bring up only point to....his prior stats (b4 he played the "tougher" defenses) should be HIGHER....If he's just some average guy, why is EVERYONE on here crying about Wentz and Goff are both anything? Wentz has 17 tds....thrown for a bunch of yards...supposedly less accurate but has completed 62% of his passes too. Oh.he played in a QB friendly system....he's older...he's played more games:blah:

They must not be the same if we can't compare them.:rimshot:...

 

[Rmfnlt]

/sigh/

How did Ryan get to a SB you say??? Doesn't matter, what happened when he got there? Huh??? What happened?

Uh, his defense collapsed?

Guess I need to bring up the quintessential example people use when debating good/great QBs.

I present to you:

Sometimes, I think people "debate", just to "debate".
Page upon page of "debate", essentially going nowhere. Neither side is ever going to relent.

Happened on a board I used to belong to and has since, more or less, died.
Hmmm... died... debating ad nauseum.. tends to give people tired head (except those that feel the need to continue "debating")

To me, this whole thing is silly... let's see how each of these QBs play when the teams go head-to-head (not that that will necessarily stop some from continuing this "debate").

 

[jacktheripper85]

Someone above brought up Tom Brady...you know what Tom did in his 2nd year? He completed 63% of his passes....his record was 11-3 in games started...Those are some nice numbers for a good 2nd year QB.

Now, you were say something about tougher competition??? Is Arizona a tough defensive team? I consider Jax and Seattle...other than those 2....

The points you bring up only point to....his prior stats (b4 he played the "tougher" defenses) should be HIGHER....If he's just some average guy, why is EVERYONE on here crying about Wentz and Goff are both anything? Wentz has 17 tds....thrown for a bunch of yards...supposedly less accurate but has completed 62% of his passes too. Oh.he played in a QB friendly system....he's older...he's played more games:blah:

They must not be the same if we can't compare them....

I’ll just go on the record as saying that as long as both stay healthy they should both have great NFL careers. And I too look forward to December 10th-can’t wait until Wentz is formally introduced to Mr. Ogletree, Mr. Brockers and Mr. Donald.

 

[JackStraw]

I don't think it will be flexed very hard until either Goff puts together back to back games with 3+TDs +275yards and 1 INT tops or when Eagles visit LA.

I have a hard time believing Wentz would be putting up these numbers if he had Todd Gurley. Wentz looks better because his team needs him a lot more than Ram's need Goff to perform.

 

[LACHAMP46]

We root for Goff and want him to be the best. You want Wentz to be the best so you can tell us and the Rams you were right and everybody else is wrong.

We all root for Goff

But so far, one guy has stood out for excellent play.

Another guy has played well.

This season....not last...not combined....THIS SEASON.....IT'S NOT RIGHT...IT'S NOT WRONG...IT'S THE FUCKING TRUTH....AND FOR SOME REASON...IT HURTS YOU TO ADMIT IT....IF I WAS WRONG I'D SAY IT.

I'd go, "man, I sure was wrong about Wentz being better than Goff, shoot!!! Goff looking like a HOF'er....an MVP of the league." See, it's not hard...no sweat off my back...this only got going for 3 days because of YOU and you lackey's....basically trying to convince the whole board to not look with there own eyes....it's not hard to admit...this IS the ultimate team game....My only point....With the average QB, everything we dream about with this team..the success...the playoffs...is HARDER with the average QB...the guy that's throwing for 59% NOW...today...the guy with only 9 td passes....

he's looking ok....he's getting out of the huddle...audibles...looking off the safety...scanning the field...reading his progressions....remember that's big with me...they do that in high school out here...so he's ok...good.

but he's not Carson Wentz good..MVP...looking like the best QB in the damn league....admit it....it's not hard...tell the truth...or continue to look like an arguer of facts for no reason. Of course a debate will never solve anything if people want be right...just to be right...one guy is 6-1....better stats....and at this point looks better....but to you..they are the same...ok

After 14 games their completion percentage is 2 points higher with a lower ypc and 3 more TD 2 more int in 113 more attempts.

lets just stick with 7 games this season....I get it...anything to appear right....

Reminds me of the government...the hidden truths...fake facts...you don't believe in global warming either, huh?

What...these 7 games don't do it for you? Why???

 

[LACHAMP46]

Guess I need to bring up the quintessential example people use when debating good/great QBs.

I present to you:

Sometimes, I think people "debate", just to "debate".

Greatest QB ever....better than Montana....better than Brady....I'd put Rodgers just behind him....

Oh yeah...I think his Wonderlic was a 12 too

 

[Legatron4]

you first db

I'm sure you were a Ram fan when we played the Pats in the super bowl. Tom's rookie year. We saw a guy march his team down field against a good rams defense...and kick a game winning fg. I saw this same rookie vs the Raiders....the tuck rule game...yes he did fumble...but even so, he gathered himself and led the team down the field....as a rookie. Stats lie....or sometimes, don't tell the truth. Tom could play.
O-7 to 5-2 is fantastic....
I'm taking the slant, that this is McVay's deal...his show...in fact, I believe we'd be 5-2 with Mannion or Case Keenum quarterbacking this team.

 

[PhillyRam]

I don't get this thread.....

It's way too early to come to any conclusions. Let's watch the games and see what happens over the next few years.

Then if a poster is clearly proven wrong, they will simply say so just like when it became clear that Greg Robinson is a bust that his vocal supporter on this board then fessed up and stated he was wrong. Right?

 

[LACHAMP46]

Then if a poster is clearly proven wrong, they will simply say so just like when it became clear that Greg Robinson is a bust that his vocal supporter on this board then fessed up and stated he was wrong. Right?

I guess Greg's a bust...but he's still starting...I thought bust were out of the league...like "busted"...but I could be wrong...LOL

 

[FrantikRam]

I'm curious....everyone says...since he was with Fisher....OK...I get it...yall hate Fisher....
But he doesn't have Fisher now...and he's had a year of experience....
No matter how much you guys wanna treat him like a rookie...he's a second year player.


We should be 7-0
He's played ok...pretty good...considering what he came thru last year...oh the horror....
I don't have much of an issue, other than we'll need more to succeed in the 2nd half of the season.
I never said he hasn't looked good.

Wentz has looked great. That's my only point....for the 3rd day now....I just wanted to ask guys....did you see that? do you now know why I like Wentz?!? He's better....he's probably the best young QB in the game.

you sir are correct...he was drafted in 2000....he threw one pass in 2000......does that help your argument?

When you ignore the impact that being in the same system, same coaches, can have on a young QB...

You're just not willing to see it any other way.

Is Wentz better than Goff right now? Yep. Is Wilson, Dak, Brees, Roethlisberger, etc. better? Yep.

Does that mean he won't be the best in the future? Nope.

It's cool if you wanted Wentz - I did too. But you're ignoring circumstances to "prove" in the first TWO years of players careers that one is definitively better than the other? C'mon. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here, because it doesn't make sense.

Last year we all could have said that we should have drafted David Johnson over Gurley too..