Goff vs Wentz. Will it be flexed?

[Faceplant]

Wentz looks borderline unstoppable right now. Takes a TON of hits though, and I expect that to continue with Peters going down tonight. Fun QB to watch though, that's for sure.

 

[Ramon Ram]

Tough not to compare the two vs staying on flex game or not.

Fisher is an idiot we all know that. Goff looks good but Wentz looks great. I always said his mobility was the difference and people said we don't want a running QB. Wentz is not a running QB but a scrambling QB who can make plays out of the pocket. Tough as nails and he is a mans man who takes his teammates hunting in the off season. A perfect fit for blue collar Philly area and we got the west coast personality for our team.

In the end there will be debates for years but wins and championships will declare the answer to a question that many of us will not let go.

I like Goff but love Wentz but I love the Rams and don't like Philly.

 

[Sappy113]

Still much too early to declare who'll be the better QB out of Wentz and Goff. Much more accurate to just state that it seems as if both franchises did right by using their top picks on these players. They're both showing signs of becoming dominant QBs for many, many years. The Eagles game is promising to be one of those games you just can't miss.

 

[-X-]

Tough not to compare the two vs staying on flex game or not.

Fisher is an idiot we all know that. Goff looks good but Wentz looks great. I always said his mobility was the difference and people said we don't want a running QB. Wentz is not a running QB but a scrambling QB who can make plays out of the pocket. Tough as nails and he is a mans man who takes his teammates hunting in the off season. A perfect fit for blue collar Philly area and we got the west coast personality for our team.

In the end there will be debates for years but wins and championships will declare the answer to a question that many of us will not let go.

I like Goff but love Wentz but I love the Rams and don't like Philly.

Yeah. First of all, we don't all *know* Fisher is an idiot. What we do *know* is that he was unsuccessful implementing his philosophy. Idiots don't parlay an NFL career into a 20+ year coaching career. Smart people do that. Idiots also don't get us Goff, Gurley, Donald, Ogletree, Barron, Brockers, TruJo, Joyner and Austin. Secondly, not everybody said "we don't want a running QB". I, personally, said we do. Especially on a Fisher team that was modeling its success against the Seahawks. That "idiot" thought otherwise and decided to get a QB who could negate a rush - not escape one. Hence the reason why Goff's sack percentage is lower. Running or scrambling QBs typically have the higher sack percentage because they don't process quickly. They try to make things happen on their own.

And hunting? Who gives a shit. Are there any defenseless deer on the field at any given moment? That's just the way he bonds with a few of his players. Goff, in the off-season, decides to get a few receivers together and work on their game. And FWIW, neither QB is blue-collar. They're both millionaires. Personally, I could give a shit about Wentz now. He'll be successful and so will Goff. Only one of them plays for the Rams though.

 

[nighttrain]

X said
" Only one of them plays for the Rams though."

Damn straight, and good thinkin so early in the morning
cheers
train

 

[DaveFan'51]

Wentz looks borderline unstoppable right now. Takes a TON of hits though, and I expect that to continue with Peters going down tonight. Fun QB to watch though, that's for sure.

I believe there next game is against Dallas, that will tell us a lot about how they will play without Peters in there at LT!

 

[SteveBrown]

Haha, champagne comedy.

Goff is controlling the game from the line of scrimmage. Sanchez had to have each play sent through his helmet colour coded so he didn't have to think too hard.

.

100% true about Sanchez......he was missing a lot of marbles.....except good accuracy, he couldn't play at all....backup at best.
I think we may not see Goff get significantly better this year (consistent throws like the 49er game)....his ascension has leveled off. I think in 2018 he will be a pro bowler, but yes, 14 starts games isn't enough experience. to get to the next level. He is an awesome game manager, and he is part of the reason we are winning--because he ainb't losing it, and is making critical key throws. But, his last two games show me a lot about risk taking....he ain't taking risks..he needs to so we can beeat the Eagles and Vikings....imho....

No champagne, charlemane

 

[Ramlock]

Yeah. First of all, we don't all *know* Fisher is an idiot. What we do *know* is that he was unsuccessful implementing his philosophy. Idiots don't parlay an NFL career into a 20+ year coaching career. Smart people do that. Idiots also don't get us Goff, Gurley, Donald, Ogletree, Barron, Brockers, TruJo, Joyner and Austin. Secondly, not everybody said "we don't want a running QB". I, personally, said we do. Especially on a Fisher team that was modeling its success against the Seahawks. That "idiot" thought otherwise and decided to get a QB who could negate a rush - not escape one. Hence the reason why Goff's sack percentage is lower. Running or scrambling QBs typically have the higher sack percentage because they don't process quickly. They try to make things happen on their own.

And hunting? Who gives a crap. Are there any defenseless deer on the field at any given moment? That's just the way he bonds with a few of his players. Goff, in the off-season, decides to get a few receivers together and work on their game. And FWIW, neither QB is blue-collar. They're both millionaires. Personally, I could give a crap about Wentz now. He'll be successful and so will Goff. Only one of them plays for the Rams though.

Nice job

Agree with damn near all of it

 

[Legatron4]

Don’t forget our offense surrounds Gurley, not Goff. Also, I’ll take the #1 offense in the league that’s balanced all the way around over a one man wrecking crew in Wentz. He might be the better QB at the moment, but our entire team is built for success for the long run.

 

[BigRamFan]

I'm guessing it's just me, and I mean no offense to the OP, but I just don't get these hyped up "QB X vs QB Y" comparisons. To me, it's like assigning QB wins. This game will be Rams vs Eagles. No player wins a football game. Whether it's Goff and Wentz, of Brady and Rogers, or any other "match up" for that matter. They are never on the field at the same time. How much can it possibly be "Goff vs Wentz?

I know comparisons between the two will happen throughout their careers based on their draft selections, and I welcome those. QB "match ups" just seem senseless to me. /rant over

 

[SteveBrown]

We need to fully energize that Jared to Sammy battery to maximum level as soon as possible. I really hope these two guys spend some overtime moments working on carrying this offense to the next level.

Expect Cooper Kupp to improve in the second half of the season and even more next season. He has spent the first half, like most rookies, getting accustomed to NFL-caliber hits, defensive savvy, speed, & quickness. Likewise for Everett.

I would always take a Jared Goff over a Carson Wentz type. While I appreciate the running QBs, I prefer a guy with laser beam accuracy & finesse touch over a guy with wheels any day and twice on Sunday. Jared has not even fully come into his own yet: we are only seeing glimpses of the future promise of the Golden Arm.

100% agree....over time, 3-4 years, I think Goff is the man we will have wanted all along...but until then we will complain. Kupp and Everett need to take a little step up, and Sammy a big step up....otherwise we will be a top 18 offense in yardage....and not control any games, and always lose by 3.

 

[dieterbrock]

Just to be a bit anti; but also because I believe it, t:

Goff has our amazing line, a great RB and 3 pretty good WRs, but the 'efficiency' rating against the Cards was not good. I wonder if he has peaked for 2017. Look at Sanchez in 2009-2010: best line, best running game, 2 near pro bowl WRs and in his 3rd year he sucked....never got better. My point is not that Goff= Sanchez, but it is that with all the great O Line play the numbers should be a lot better.

Sanchez sucked from the get go. 2009/2010 54% comp 29 TD 33 INT and a 70.2 QB rating. THEN he fell off a cliff....
Heck even including last year's disaster, Goff statistically is better than Sanchez. 57.4% 14 TD 11 INT and passer rating 77.5

 

[majrleaged]

Just to be a bit anti; but also because I believe it, t:

Goff has our amazing line, a great RB and 3 pretty good WRs, but the 'efficiency' rating against the Cards was not good. I wonder if he has peaked for 2017. Look at Sanchez in 2009-2010: best line, best running game, 2 near pro bowl WRs and in his 3rd year he sucked....never got better. My point is not that Goff= Sanchez, but it is that with all the great O Line play the numbers should be a lot better.

There is no reason to think this is the best Goff can be. In fact Goff's history from college to now suggests this is only the tip of the ice berg. Also there is nothing to suggest this coaching staff is anything like the Jets back then.

 

[Ants]

Great Post from zn off the herd board as to why Fisher took Goff over Wentz:

Fisher himself directly addressed that. He valued most the kinds of skills Goff has over Wentz.

People assume, well he had McNair, he must like that kind of qb. But it's not as though when they took McNair there was another option who was different they could have taken at the same spot instead. McNair was just the best guy, regardless. So they took the best guy.

When he DID have a choice he took the quy with the quick release and more pinpoint accuracy.

His goal---and he directly said this to Mike Silver BEFORE the draft---was a qb like Brady who gets the ball out so quickly it negates the rush, and also throws it accurately.

He directly said he loved Wentz but Goff was his guy.

I think the problem, then, is assuming that Wentz was his kind of guy. He himself shot that idea down.

And here's the thing about Goff---he's not only behind Wentz in terms of years, he's behind Wentz in terms of development. The Air Raid system at Cal is famous for setting qbs behind when it comes to being ready to play in the pros. That is said of a lot of spread offenses but it's particularly true of the Air Raid offense (and that is even though the Cal version is a variant). Wentz played in a pro style system. So they were night and day in terms of their development.

So that's one thing Goff DOES share with McNair. They both came out of college very behind with a lot of developing ahead of them. That just shows they weren't afraid of that. Developing slow was just the way they knew with a guy like that.

When Goff catches up with Wentz the contrast in their styles will be more clear. Goff just has far more refined arm talent and makes passes Wentz can never make--beauties. Sometimes it';s subtle. So if Wentz is this big burley fireman, Goff is a surgeon.

And to reinforce all this that is basically what Fisher said he wanted. He wanted the surgeon.

Good post. I agree with almost all of it, except:
I thought that the Air Raid offense was a step above the usual spread offense in that the QB did make a few quick reads.
Regardless, good post.

 

[ramfan46]

No home games will be played at night at USC. The campus doesn't want a bunch of drunk dudes around at night during the school year. Gonna have to wait until Inglewood is built to get those sweet home prime time games. Would have been nice though. Still wish the Rose Bowl was the temporary home, the tailgating on the golf course would have been legendary.

 

[dieterbrock]

What are the rules for flex games? Eagles are already penciled in for the Sunday Night game @ Dallas 11/19, then again 2 weeks later @ Seattle 12/3. Would they be eligible to play 3 out of 4 weeks on Sunday night??

 

[Corbin]

Great Post from zn off the herd board as to why Fisher took Goff over Wentz:

Fisher himself directly addressed that. He valued most the kinds of skills Goff has over Wentz.

People assume, well he had McNair, he must like that kind of qb. But it's not as though when they took McNair there was another option who was different they could have taken at the same spot instead. McNair was just the best guy, regardless. So they took the best guy.

When he DID have a choice he took the quy with the quick release and more pinpoint accuracy.

His goal---and he directly said this to Mike Silver BEFORE the draft---was a qb like Brady who gets the ball out so quickly it negates the rush, and also throws it accurately.

He directly said he loved Wentz but Goff was his guy.

I think the problem, then, is assuming that Wentz was his kind of guy. He himself shot that idea down.

And here's the thing about Goff---he's not only behind Wentz in terms of years, he's behind Wentz in terms of development. The Air Raid system at Cal is famous for setting qbs behind when it comes to being ready to play in the pros. That is said of a lot of spread offenses but it's particularly true of the Air Raid offense (and that is even though the Cal version is a variant). Wentz played in a pro style system. So they were night and day in terms of their development.

So that's one thing Goff DOES share with McNair. They both came out of college very behind with a lot of developing ahead of them. That just shows they weren't afraid of that. Developing slow was just the way they knew with a guy like that.

When Goff catches up with Wentz the contrast in their styles will be more clear. Goff just has far more refined arm talent and makes passes Wentz can never make--beauties. Sometimes it';s subtle. So if Wentz is this big burley fireman, Goff is a surgeon.

And to reinforce all this that is basically what Fisher said he wanted. He wanted the surgeon.

I don’t know Den. There is two sides to this story and i think both are very plausible. This side you posted that Goff was Fishers boy and that Goff was forced on Fisher which i think is slightly more likely with all things considered due to the actions.

Fisher tanked Goff’s first season and there is no debate in that. Evidence of that is his lack of snaps in the offseason/TC. He never was coached, groomed, or guided much. Neither did they get a QB coach worth a shit for him.

Now he could of been doing it to get another year but you don’t do that with a QB you like.

I think Fisher being the egotistical stubborn ass he was didn’t want to help him his first year due to not wanting Goff.

There was more than a few stories surrounding this topic and as they say where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[dieterbrock]

I don’t know Den. There is two sides to this story and i think both are very plausible. This side you posted that Goff was Fishers boy and that Goff was forced on Fisher which i think is slightly more likely with all things considered due to the actions.

Fisher tanked Goff’s first season and there is no debate in that. Evidence of that is his lack of snaps in the offseason/TC. He never was coached, groomed, or guided much. Neither did they get a QB coach worth a crap for him.

Now he could of been doing it to get another year but you don’t do that with a QB you like still.

I think Fisher being the egotistical stubborn didn’t want to help him his first year due to not wanting Goff.

There was more than a few stories surrounding this and as they say if there is smoke there is fire!

Agreed.
And I just cant see how Fisher would have been so enamored with Goff that they would have traded up so much to get him only to keep him bubble wrapped behind Case Frickin Keenum

 

[Corbin]

Agreed.
And I just cant see how Fisher would have been so enamored with Goff that they would have traded up so much to get him only to keep him bubble wrapped behind Case Frickin Keenum

Amen brother! That is mind blowing and totally contradicting to each other.

 

[GabesHorn]

100% true about Sanchez......he was missing a lot of marbles.....except good accuracy, he couldn't play at all....backup at best.
I think we may not see Goff get significantly better this year (consistent throws like the 49er game)....his ascension has leveled off. I think in 2018 he will be a pro bowler, but yes, 14 starts games isn't enough experience. to get to the next level. He is an awesome game manager, and he is part of the reason we are winning--because he ainb't losing it, and is making critical key throws. But, his last two games show me a lot about risk taking....he ain't taking risks..he needs to so we can beeat the Eagles and Vikings....imho....

No champagne, charlemane

I know that Wentz was already given the league MVP last night at home in Philly on a Monday night game.I know we screwed up taking a guy who has no clue where the Sun rises and sets.Coming into the NFL with Fisher as your offensive mind with all those great OC's that he kept changing & each was so creative and cutting edge in the NFL with Chris Weinke as Quarterback coach to transition from Air Raid system to Fisher Ball.Who could beat a QB coach with a resume like Weinke had? Maybe a guy to help you prepare for the combine and THATS IT!!! Plus I live right here at FSU and know all about what Weinke did for the Noles one year. Charlie Ward & The Bucs current QB also won National Championships for FSU but I'm glad we have a very young Jarred Goff as the Future of our L.A. Rams.

May take two years totally with our New Head coach and our QB coach to get Goff prereading defenses & seeing the field & doing what Kurt Warner did at age 28 in his very first year starting in 1999. I know it's a microwave world and we want it now and we make snap judgements on who will be this or that without any patience at all. EVERYONE CHILL & give our guy time before you crown Wentz as the new Tom Brady for 15 years. Aaron Rodgers has won just 1 SB and he also is a running scrambling qb with two broken collerbones in 5 years. I want the pocket rifleman with the quickest release with the occasional TD run like Goff had in London.

Coach Peterson is a great QB coach in Philly and they have handled Carson just right since he came in while Jarrod is lucky to be alive first and played through adversity(No O-Line or WR's) that has ruined some other talented high drafted rookies like a guy in Texas(Carr) who took too many hits early and it ruined him and he's doing TV while his brother is the Raiders QB.Alshon Jeffrey ,Zack Ertz , & two other tall fast wr's that help Wentz be the best in his second year. We did make the move for Sammy Watkins but Jarrod did not have the same off season to work with him as he did with Woods & Kupp.An early injury after a 60 yard catch has set back our #2 pick at TE this year in Gerald Everett & Higbee has been forced to step up & fill that role he was suppose to be.Once Healthy & game slows down Everett will be a major fantasy weapon.(Hate Fantasy).

My point is : I'm actually glad all focus is on Wentz and his all world rating as he can only go down from his crowning last night. Eagles D is actually the better part that forced Cousins to throw that interception. We may not have our Jarrod Goff where WE want him this full season of progressing. I promise the Goff we march out next season if still alive and healthy will be a top 10 NFL QB to go with a top 5 RB in Todd Gurley as the Eagles will still be looking for their RB. Most Defensive holes should be fixed in draft & FA in the offseason too.Playoffs is the highpoint of this season In my opinion only. Comparing Goff & Wentz will go on for a decade. I'm glad we have the guy we have with the coach that "SHOULD" continue Goff's highest chance of reaching his peak performance in a short time.Fisher was a dangerous setback he has lived through & overcome.Eli lost his first 6 too.More pocket QB's have won SB's & have a less chance of taking that season ending hit.Goff needs to continue to add a couple lbs and firm up also in my personal opinion.His metabolism is a tough issue to work with in that process. Yet we won't be spending 30 million to sign Kirk Cousins next season.

The Wentz,Dak Prescott, & poor dumb Jarrod Goff discussion will continue for as long as these 3 keep playing the game. Glad our guy is not all universe right now & can't go anywhere but down. It will be a major surprise when & IF Goff ever gets better than below average. One caught ball and so many things would be different right now too.:giveup: