Goff Trade Up

[XXXIVwin]

I’d like to add, in sum, this mode of equating Goff to average is just mean.

Six arithmetic jokes in one sentence...ba-da-bing ba-da-boom

 

[Turducken]

When I first caught news of the trade for the first pick, the price made me squeamish. This was partly because Goff and (especially) Wentz were below the radar college players and I didn't have a great deal of confidence in Snead/Fisher's talent evaluation skills for offensive players. I didn't assume that I knew better than them, I had just developed a healthy skepticism after they spent premium picks on Tavon and Greg Robinson. With both of their seats growing warmer each year, it felt like a hail mary pass.

How would Goff be doing right now in an alternate universe where Kroenke gave Fisher one more season?

 

[PainTrain]

I had Goff as the highest rated QB since the last Cal QB to come into the league. Yes, I rated him higher than Luck. McVay is great at what he does, but Goff is a special QB. He’s 23 and he’s already performing at level that isn’t usually seen until year 4 or 5.

He certainly has room to improve, but to suggest that any middle of road QB could cone in and be successful is really shorting Goff’s talent.

 

[UKram]

so much i want to respond to in this thread its not even funny so im just going make a few observations

Of course circumstances matter .. lets take Wentz ...look at that coaching staff he has had since he entered the league all geared towards QB's and he is thriving iun it ,,, lets stick him on the browns see if they talk about him MVPing it then ...but then we give Goff and an offensive minded coach but Goff is succeeding because of the system he is in .. gotcha

Oline and run game .. hello Dallas ! consensus best Oline in the game the ewok is a douche of a person but a damm fine running back ,,yet Dak was "the best QB in the draft " according to the media after his first year .. kid would not have sniffed the field if Romo didnt get hurt and make no mistake that o line and run game help him massively ... yet Goff gets a decent o line and a run game (which again he didnt have last year) and its because the players around him not him

i dont care if you think Goff is a bust, average or a first ballot HOFer ... but if you Do think he is average while Wentz is the second coming and are arguing that the coaching staff and system and players around him make him better then you better apply that to every other QB thats succeeds because of the "system" there is literally two QBs who win despite the talent around them one is brady (love or hate him ) and Arod.. GB win because of ARod no one else

Heck i was a wentz guy before the draft (was happy with either to be honest but i had a man crush on wentx ) and im glad he is succeeding but im even happier Goff is our QB.. he is special

i swear he could win us three superbowls in his career and certain people would still claim he is a bust of its because of the sytem or he isnt a transcendent talent and shoulda won four or five or six like Brady

 

[shaunpinney]

so much i want to respond to in this thread its not even funny so im just going make a few observations

Of course circumstances matter .. lets take Wentz ...look at that coaching staff he has had since he entered the league all geared towards QB's and he is thriving iun it ,,, lets stick him on the browns see if they talk about him MVPing it then ...but then we give Goff and an offensive minded coach but Goff is succeeding because of the system he is in .. gotcha

Oline and run game .. hello Dallas ! consensus best Oline in the game the ewok is a douche of a person but a damm fine running back ,,yet Dak was "the best QB in the draft " according to the media after his first year .. kid would not have sniffed the field if Romo didnt get hurt and make no mistake that o line and run game help him massively ... yet Goff gets a decent o line and a run game (which again he didnt have last year) and its because the players around him not him

i dont care if you think Goff is a bust, average or a first ballot HOFer ... but if you Do think he is average while Wentz is the second coming and are arguing that the coaching staff and system and players around him make him better then you better apply that to every other QB thats succeeds because of the "system" there is literally two QBs who win despite the talent around them one is brady (love or hate him ) and Arod.. GB win because of ARod no one else

Heck i was a wentz guy before the draft (was happy with either to be honest but i had a man crush on wentx ) and im glad he is succeeding but im even happier Goff is our QB.. he is special

i swear he could win us three superbowls in his career and certain people would still claim he is a bust of its because of the sytem or he isnt a transcendent talent and shoulda won four or five or six like Brady

All fair points, but thats all a part of being a Ram / Rams supporter. We're only 7-2 because of our schedule remember... The only way we can silence the critics is to continually win.

To be fair, I do believe players are great BECAUSE of their coaching and system. I'd say Payton Manning and ARod (and Brees on a bubble on the outside) are the only two (three) exceptions to the rule in recent memory. I think Brady is a great QB, but it's the system which has made him the GOAT. Belli and he are good for each other - again, throw Brady on a Browns team and does he win? I don't think so. Look at what's happened in NY with the Giants this year, Manning looks like a green rookie, it must come down to the coaching.

 

[UKram]

you can only beat who is in front of you ,,, i mean we beat a pretty good teams in Jacksonville and the boys (who we came from behind at the half to beat ) ... but its the manner in which we beat them .. we may win those games with fisher at the helm ... but they would have been 13-10 or 6-9 wins .. we dismantled the teams we played except the niners but we came away with the W and frankly thats all that matters so yeah coaching matters and no one is arguing tha....but i believe the system and the payers around him are helping Goff ,,but Goff is what making it successful

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well, this still comes down to you asserting that Goff is avg or just a system QB. I think the rest of us are saying a 2nd year, 23 year old "system QB" that is lighting up the scoreboard and leading a perennial loser to a 7-2 start and the highest scoring offense in the league, is not an "average QB".

Shows that the kid has a lot of potential. It took Alex Smith years to be a very good "game manager" or "system QB". For Goff to do that the 1st year in a new offense and to put up the numbers and wins that he has, is special.

Gee. I thought that was it for me. Oh well. I got some more time to kill.

Again, please stop as you are wrong yet again. Though it's probably too early to gauge given some one hit wonders in NFL history, I didn't say, assert, nor do I believe that Goff is an average or just a system QB. Some of you all put those words in my mouth when I merely pointed out that his is in a dream situation that others could thrive in and that I didn't see Goff as the clear difference yet. This couldn't be the case for someone viewed to date as (my opinion) a slightly above average QB? Of course it could. But, perhaps not on a Rams board where anything not offered in blind praise of the starting QB apparently is deemed blasphemy for some. And I guess should have known better.

 

[dieterbrock]

How would Goff be doing right now in an alternate universe where Kroenke gave Fisher one more season?

Thank god we never will have to find out

 

[PhillyRam]

Gee. I thought that was it for me. Oh well. I got some more time to kill.

Again, please stop as you are wrong yet again. Though it's probably too early to gauge given some one hit wonders in NFL history, I didn't say, assert, nor do I believe that Goff is an average or just a system QB. Some of you all put those words in my mouth when I merely pointed out that his is in a dream situation that others could thrive in and that I didn't see Goff as the clear difference yet. This couldn't be the case for someone viewed to date as (my opinion) a slightly above average QB? Of course it could. But, perhaps not on a Rams board where anything not offered in blind praise of the starting QB apparently is deemed blasphemy for some. And I guess should have known better.

Environment is important to every QB.. If Joe Montana was drafted by Buddy Ryan, he never becomes the Joe Montana we came to know. Had Steve Youbg remained in Tampa, he never gets a gold jacket.

So you just have to say he is in a good system and he is doing well in it, especially for a 23 year old QB coming from a college spread offense. That should be very encouraging.

 

[dieterbrock]

I merely pointed out that his is in a dream situation that others could thrive in

Which implies other QB would thrive as well?
That seems to contradict the "These guys aren't robots. And neither are the players surrounding them. And the situations / circumstances of their opponents are not constant." theory
Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking

 

[Memphis Ram]

Environment is important to every QB.. If Joe Montana was drafted by Buddy Ryan, he never becomes the Joe Montana we came to know. Had Steve Youbg remained in Tampa, he never gets a gold jacket.

So you just have to say he is in a good system and he is doing well in it, especially for a 23 year old QB coming from a college spread offense. That should be very encouraging.

Environment being important to every QB isn't breaking new ground with me. It goes without saying. That said, given your examples we don't know what could have happened as either QB might not have been tied to the same situations throughout their entire careers.

Anyway, I guess now it's gone from others telling me what I believe to telling me what to and what not to say (post).

This really takes me back to my anything not said in blind praise to Goff theory......

 

[Memphis Ram]

Which implies other QB would thrive as well?
That seems to contradict the "These guys aren't robots. And neither are the players surrounding them. And the situations / circumstances of their opponents are not constant." theory
Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking

Gee. You didn't notice that YOU changed my "could" to "would," huh? I did.
Makes a difference doesn't it?

 

[PainTrain]

I don’t think anyone thinks Goff is free from criticism or that he doesn’t make mistakes. He is performing at a very high level for his age and experience.

At this point cautious optimism is certainly a reasonable point of view.

However, suggesting that Goff is average or a middle tier QB is simply an argument submitted to avoid conceding an incorrect position.

He and Wentz appear to be the heirs apparent to the old regime of QBs who are nearing the end of their regimes.

 

[PhillyRam]

I don’t think anyone thinks Goff is free from criticism or that he doesn’t make mistakes. He is performing at a very high level for his age and experience.

At this point cautious optimism is certainly a reasonable point of view.

However, suggesting that Goff is average or a middle tier QB is simply an argument submitted to avoid conceding an incorrect position.

He and Wentz appear to be the heirs apparent to the old regime of QBs who are nearing the end of their regimes.

Very well said...

And I am positive Goff will have some rough moments... very possibly this Sunday on the road in a loud domed stadium. Of course when he does, it won't be a case where the young coach came up small or his surounding environment did not protect him or make a big catch.... I am sure in someone's eyes it will be all on him.

 

[dieterbrock]

Gee. You didn't notice that YOU changed my "could" to "would," huh? I did.
Makes a difference doesn't it?

No actually it doesn’t. It is the same issue.

 

[Memphis Ram]

No actually it doesn’t. It is the same issue.

Wow. We must clearly have two different definitions of the two words then. For me, "could" basically means that something is possible while "would" basically means to bank on it. What are your definitions?

That is, unless you are saying that you don't even believe that it's even possible for any other QB to thrive in an offense with stout protection, weapons, and play calling/coaching? Only Goff. Which is it? Or am I missing something?

 

[Memphis Ram]

I don’t think anyone thinks Goff is free from criticism or that he doesn’t make mistakes. He is performing at a very high level for his age and experience.

At this point cautious optimism is certainly a reasonable point of view.

However, suggesting that Goff is average or a middle tier QB is simply an argument submitted to avoid conceding an incorrect position.

He and Wentz appear to be the heirs apparent to the old regime of QBs who are nearing the end of their regimes.

Interestingly enough, while I haven't read every post in this thread, it sure seems to me that there are more people attributing the argument to others than there are posters who have actually made the argument in the first place.

 

[dieterbrock]

Wow. We must clearly have two different definitions of the two words then. For me, "could" basically means that something is possible while "would" basically means to bank on it. What are your definitions?

That is, unless you are saying that you don't even believe that it's even possible for any other QB to thrive in an offense with stout protection, weapons, and play calling/coaching? Only Goff. Which is it? Or am I missing something?

Are you being serious right now? Would is appropriate because Goff is thriving right now. But ok, I’ll try again....
Which implies other QB could thrive as well?
That seems to contradict the "These guys aren't robots. And neither are the players surrounding them. And the situations / circumstances of their opponents are not constant." theory
Maybe Goff is the reason the offense is clicking

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Gee. I thought that was it for me. Oh well. I got some more time to kill.

Again, please stop as you are wrong yet again. Though it's probably too early to gauge given some one hit wonders in NFL history, I didn't say, assert, nor do I believe that Goff is an average or just a system QB. Some of you all put those words in my mouth when I merely pointed out that his is in a dream situation that others could thrive in and that I didn't see Goff as the clear difference yet. This couldn't be the case for someone viewed to date as (my opinion) a slightly above average QB? Of course it could. But, perhaps not on a Rams board where anything not offered in blind praise of the starting QB apparently is deemed blasphemy for some. And I guess should have known better.

Memphis, if you can’t tell by now that Goff isn’t a “one hit wonder” then...

It’s not that difficult, and oh yeah he’s never going to be a team distraction

You really need to let go here, you’re not looking good

 

[Billy Baroo]

This thread...