Game of Thrones: Season 8

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

dieterbrock

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
24,020
For 8 seasons, Winter has been coming, and once it arrived it was wiped out in 1 episode
It seemed to me rushed and too long of episode at the same time.
 

T-REX

"King of the tyrant lizards"
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
4,006
For 8 seasons, Winter has been coming, and once it arrived it was wiped out in 1 episode
It seemed to me rushed and too long of episode at the same time.

I somewhat agree, it was rushed but If the Night King wasn't killed everyone would have been wiped out with 3 episodes left. Now the battle can shift to the main purpose, the Iron Throne. My only complaint was that the entire episode was so dark. I know they were at war with the Night King but wow, for me it was tough seeing what the hell was happening most of the time. I'm going to re-watch tonight and put the brightness up to the max on the TV :sneaky::LOL:.

EDIT: I had to add this :LOL:
 

T-REX

"King of the tyrant lizards"
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
4,006
Arya rocks!
f51c96060cbac96f36966e15ee4af0d5
 

FrantikRam

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
4,841
For 8 seasons, Winter has been coming, and once it arrived it was wiped out in 1 episode
It seemed to me rushed and too long of episode at the same time.

It was awful for me. The living talked about a battle plan in episode 2 for all of 3 minutes, so I knew most of their actual battle plan had been discussed off screen - and whatever that was, it was one of the worst I've ever seen in any show. Jon has fought White Walkers and wights and seen them move - and yet keeping the dragons out of the battle to pursue the Night King was all they could come up with. The two dragons could have wiped out the wights with ease, which would have lured the Walkers and/or Night King into the open.

In episode 2 everyone said the crypts would be safe without talking about how the Night King raises the dead?

Dragon fire does nothing to the Night King but Valyrian steel does the trick, apparently because Arya stabbed him right where the Children of the Forest did with the dragon glass - and Arya just happened to stab him in that exact spot?

At the end of episode 2 they showed us dozens of White Walkers which was terrifying, because we've never seen more than 4 (in battle) with the Night King - and they were completely pointless.

The battle was chaotic and confusing - I couldn't tell who was alive or dead - the dead slaughtered the living, and yet the main characters all survived?

Anytime the odds of something happening in a show are similar to winning the powerball three times, it was not well thought out IMO. Fantasy show or not.
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
Up to now, it was the biggest step in 8 seasons of GOT. Since season One, Ned Stark was saying that "Winter is Coming," and now it has come and has been vanquished by Arya the warrior Goddess.

There were more plot devices, such as the lighting of the Dothraki swords by Mellisandra. The fight would have to be at night, and so how would you show the greatest asset in the Army of the Living (cavalry) which didn't include dragons? Dothraki fight mostly from the back of a horse in the field, mowing down the enemy, but how to show that? It was ominous seeing the a third of Dani's army get snuffed out in an instant as every sword was extinguished. It was ominous and terrifyingly finale for the Dothraki in Westeros.
 

BadCompany

Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
332
I liked the episode. Checked my brain out for most of it and just enjoyed the slaughter for what it was. Now having said THAT... :sneaky:

Here is what I would have done.

* Make the defense of the castle more realistic. Given the foe, and your tactical advantages (dragons, fire trenches, fire catapults) there was no reason to have anybody outside the wall. That was just stupid. Especially the Dothraki charge. Mellisandre setting their weapons on fire all seems pointless given that they all died within 20 seconds. That was unworthy and unfair to the Dothraki. Maybe release them onto the field after the trench had been breached or something, instead of just sending them out of sight (and artillery cover) to get slaughtered.

* Have at least one company of the Unsullied guarding Bran. I get that he was supposed to be bait, but come on. What were there, like 10 Iron Born defending him?

* Make the battle more even. Who is left to fight Cersei now? To me it seemed like there were a couple of dozen survivor warriors of Winterfell, if that. You can have the dead breach the wall, but with the dragons in the field make it more of a pitched fight.

* You can still have the "victory snatched from the jaws of defeat" moment with Arya, but I would have drawn it out a little. Have the aforementioned Unsullied fight against the White Walkers with the Night King, eventually whittling them down to just the Night King (with all the Unsullied and Theon dying of course). Then have Arya do her thing.

* Instead of all the dead just, you know, dying (which was too easy a victory, really), have them become confused and panicked without their leader. Get them fleeing back into the fire trenches, have the dragons mowing them down in the open field, have your still-substantial Winterfell army get back on the catapults... kill them (again) the old fashioned way. Doesn't even have to be prolonged, just 15-20 seconds of the Dead being routed. We'd all get the point.

Do it that way and you'd have a plausible victory scenario, and you'd still have an army left for Cersei. What are they going to do now? Are like 10,000 men suddenly going to come crawling out of the ruins of Winterfell, survivors we didn't see? Are all the other houses going to suddenly show up and pledge allegiance? It's all going to seem disingenuous.

That's what I would have done.

(and like I said, I enjoyed the episode)
 
Last edited:

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
It was awful for me.

The living talked about a battle plan in episode 2 for all of 3 minutes, so I knew most of their actual battle plan had been discussed off screen - and whatever that was, it was one of the worst I've ever seen in any show.

Aside from the Dothraki charge with cavalry, coupled with fireball catapults, there were no plans for offensive operations vs the white walking army of the dead. It was all defensive and useless, which is why holding back the dragons to fight the Night King in the air was the plan. It has been so long between the previous season and this one., but because the enemy was vastly superior in numbers and fearless in their swarming tactics (as evidenced in the Battle of Hardhome, Season 5, Episode 8). The Night King caused the heavy fog which disrupted their plan to light the moat around Winterfell, which was smart.

The orderly retreat by the Unsullied was brilliantly done, and maybe the best representation I have ever seen in any movie.


Jon has fought White Walkers and wights and seen them move - and yet keeping the dragons out of the battle to pursue the Night King was all they could come up with. The two dragons could have wiped out the wights with ease, which would have lured the Walkers and/or Night King into the open.

See the above strategy for winning. Bran was the bait and destroying the Night King was the priority. Plus, they were also pursuing the undead dragon, which some had speculated was more powerful than the living dragons. I don't understand the magic shyte as much, but somehow the death of the Three Eyed Raven by the Night King was to be the end of the living forever. Why would the Night King care about a a sacrifice of the Army of the Dead? Why would their destruction draw him out, if Bran was the ultimate goal? Dani/Jon were willing in theory to sacrifice the Army of the Living to beat the Night King and the Night King was willing to sacrifice the Army of the Dead to kill Bran. Dani thought she was willing to do so, until she saw her Dothraki killed almost in an instant, which freaked her shyt up!

In episode 2 everyone said the crypts would be safe without talking about how the Night King raises the dead?

Good point in one respect, but I find fault for a different reason. How could skeletons with no connecting tissues do anything but move ineffectively? How could any of them be a real threat after centuries?

Dragon fire does nothing to the Night King but Valyrian steel does the trick, apparently because Arya stabbed him right where the Children of the Forest did with the dragon glass - and Arya just happened to stab him in that exact spot?

At the before mentioned Battle of Hardhome (season 5), we saw Jon Snow shatter a White officer with Valyrian steel. Although the hair was different and the Night King had a crown, they seemed to be the same type of creature, vulnerable to the same type of weapon. In my mind, wherever the Night King would have been stabbed would have shattered him. The part that was crazy, was where the fark did Arya jump from to launch over people's heads to reach the Night King? I liked the nice touch of using the dagger shift that she did against Briane of Tarth in the previous season, to stab the Night King (it was a practiced move)

At the end of episode 2 they showed us dozens of White Walkers which was terrifying, because we've never seen more than 4 (in battle) with the Night King - and they were completely pointless.

Again, season 5's Battle of Hardhome is relied on for context. We have seen tens of thousands of white walkers overcome a well fortified Wildling town, and so if you've seen that previous battle, you know their swarming style. (Completely pointless???). At Hardhome, it was the most terrifying use of the dead I have seen on GOT, and maybe in other movies. The dead flowed over a mountain ridge and pushed down fortified walls from the sheer weight of their numbers (their numbers have grown considerably more since then) They did not fear normal steel weapons or anything else. Like I said, they swarmed the living to death, and so the directors maybe felt they didn't need to show all of that again? They did show that ability some of the time, but the directors relied on your prior knowledge to inform what you didn't see in the dark, imo.

The battle was chaotic and confusing - I couldn't tell who was alive or dead - the dead slaughtered the living, and yet the main characters all survived?

Night King - dead
Melisandre - dead
Lady Lyanna Mormont -dead -white walker - dead again
Ser Jorah Mormont - dead
Theon Greyjoy - dead
Lord Beric Dondarrion (dude with fire sword and eye patch) - dead (for the 7th time)
Dolorous Edd (former Night Watch Commode) - dead
Viserion (undead Ice dragon) - dead
Virtually Every Dothraki & Most Unsullied in Westeros - dead


Yes, I expected a few more that hid in the crypt to die. I certainly expected Jamie Lannister to die, because a one armed swordsman could not have held back swarming soldiers. Jon Snow was committing suicide with Viserion blowing blue flames, but Viserio died with the Night King of a sudden. The Hound could not die because of the long promised, future Clegane Bowl (The Hound vs. the Mountain). Ah well.

Anytime the odds of something happening in a show are similar to winning the powerball three times, it was not well thought out IMO. Fantasy show or not.

There was no way the directors could satisfy everybody. I loved the show and found myself saying "wow" for hours afterwards, and then frustrated afterwards because I didn't want to spoil it for those who had not seen it (looks like that's done! lol). It's fantasy, after all.
 
Last edited:

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
And I don't want to spoil your incorrect thoughts by correcting you...:sneaky:
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
I liked the episode. Checked my brain out for most of it and just enjoyed the slaughter for what it was. Now having said THAT... :sneaky:
...
Do it that way and you'd have a plausible victory scenario, and you'd still have an army left for Cersei. What are they going to do now? Are like 10,000 men suddenly going to come crawling out of the ruins of Winterfell, survivors we didn't see? Are all the other houses going to suddenly show up and pledge allegiance? It's all going to seem disingenuous.

That's what I would have done.

(and like I said, I enjoyed the episode)

Remember, Dani still has a mercenary army in Essos called the Second Sons and still has an alliance with Yara and her Iron Born to transport them...
 

BadCompany

Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
332
Doesn't Yara only have like three ships now? Doesn't Euron have most of them? And are we going to do a Season 7 time trick thing, where Dani gets back to the Iron Islands, dispatches Yara across the Narrow Seas to pick up her mercenary army (which if I recall was keeping peace and order over there?), load them all on her ships and bring them back to Kings Landing, in one episode?

My way is better dammit!! Bend the knee to my brilliance!!
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
Doesn't Yara only have like three ships now? Doesn't Euron have most of them? And are we going to do a Season 7 time trick thing, where Dani gets back to the Iron Islands, dispatches Yara across the Narrow Seas to pick up her mercenary army (which if I recall was keeping peace and order over there?), load them all on her ships and bring them back to Kings Landing, in one episode?

My way is better dammit!! Bend the knee to my brilliance!!
You forget how Yara had all of the ships (most of them that existed, before Euron built an even bigger fleet from scratch, lickettysplit! Them Iron Born can build a new fleet in no time!
 

FrantikRam

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
4,841
The living talked about a battle plan in episode 2 for all of 3 minutes, so I knew most of their actual battle plan had been discussed off screen - and whatever that was, it was one of the worst I've ever seen in any show.

Aside from the Dothraki charge with cavalry, coupled with fireball catapults, there were no plans for offensive operations vs the white walking army of the dead. It was all defensive and useless, which is why holding back the dragons to fight the Night King in the air was the plan. It has been so long between the previous season and this one., but because the enemy was vastly superior in numbers and fearless in their swarming tactics (as evidenced in the Battle of Hardhome, Season 5, Episode 8). The Night King caused the heavy fog which disrupted their plan to light the moat around Winterfell, which was smart.

The orderly retreat by the Unsullied was brilliantly done, and maybe the best representation I have ever seen in any movie.


Jon has fought White Walkers and wights and seen them move - and yet keeping the dragons out of the battle to pursue the Night King was all they could come up with. The two dragons could have wiped out the wights with ease, which would have lured the Walkers and/or Night King into the open.

See the above strategy for winning. Bran was the bait and destroying the Night King was the priority. Plus, they were also pursuing the undead dragon, which some had speculated was more powerful than the living dragons. I don't understand the magic shyte as much, but somehow the death of the Three Eyed Raven by the Night King was to be the end of the living forever. Why would the Night King care about a a sacrifice of the Army of the Dead? Why would their destruction draw him out, if Bran was the ultimate goal? Dani/Jon were willing in theory to sacrifice the Army of the Living to beat the Night King and the Night King was willing to sacrifice the Army of the Dead to kill Bran. Dani thought she was willing to do so, until she saw her Dothraki killed almost in an instant, which freaked her shyt up!

In episode 2 everyone said the crypts would be safe without talking about how the Night King raises the dead?

Good point in one respect, but I find fault for a different reason. How could skeletons with no connecting tissues do anything but move ineffectively? How could any of them be a real threat after centuries?

Dragon fire does nothing to the Night King but Valyrian steel does the trick, apparently because Arya stabbed him right where the Children of the Forest did with the dragon glass - and Arya just happened to stab him in that exact spot?

At the before mentioned Battle of Hardhome (season 5), we saw Jon Snow shatter a White officer with Valyrian steel. Although the hair was different and the Night King had a crown, they seemed to be the same type of creature, vulnerable to the same type of weapon. In my mind, wherever the Night King would have been stabbed would have shattered him. The part that was crazy, was where the fark did Arya jump from to launch over people's heads to reach the Night King? I liked the nice touch of using the dagger shift that she did against Briane of Tarth in the previous season, to stab the Night King (it was a practiced move)

At the end of episode 2 they showed us dozens of White Walkers which was terrifying, because we've never seen more than 4 (in battle) with the Night King - and they were completely pointless.

Again, season 5's Battle of Hardhome is relied on for context. We have seen tens of thousands of white walkers overcome a well fortified Wildling town, and so if you've seen that previous battle, you know their swarming style. (Completely pointless???). At Hardhome, it was the most terrifying use of the dead I have seen on GOT, and maybe in other movies. The dead flowed over a mountain ridge and pushed down fortified walls from the sheer weight of their numbers (their numbers have grown considerably more since then) They did not fear normal steel weapons or anything else. Like I said, they swarmed the living to death, and so the directors maybe felt they didn't need to show all of that again? They did show that ability some of the time, but the directors relied on your prior knowledge to inform what you didn't see in the dark, imo.

The battle was chaotic and confusing - I couldn't tell who was alive or dead - the dead slaughtered the living, and yet the main characters all survived?

Night King - dead
Melisandre - dead
Lady Lyanna Mormont -dead -white walker - dead again
Ser Jorah Mormont - dead
Theon Greyjoy - dead
Lord Beric Dondarrion (dude with fire sword and eye patch) - dead (for the 7th time)
Dolorous Edd (former Night Watch Commode) - dead
Viserion (undead Ice dragon) - dead
Virtually Every Dothraki & Most Unsullied in Westeros - dead


Yes, I expected a few more that hid in the crypt to die. I certainly expected Jamie Lannister to die, because a one armed swordsman could not have held back swarming soldiers. Jon Snow was committing suicide with Viserion blowing blue flames, but Viserio died with the Night King of a sudden. The Hound could not die because of the long promised, future Clegane Bowl (The Hound vs. the Mountain). Ah well.

Anytime the odds of something happening in a show are similar to winning the powerball three times, it was not well thought out IMO. Fantasy show or not.

There was no way the directors could satisfy everybody. I loved the show and found myself saying "wow" for hours afterwards, and then frustrated afterwards because I didn't want to spoil it for those who had not seen it (looks like that's done! lol). It's fantasy, after all.


I'll answer out of order here and try to keep it short:

The characters that died were not main characters - none of them even come close to that. Jamie, Arya, Jon, Dany, Sansa all survived. Even the secondary characters like Brienne, Tormund, Varys, Missendie and Greyworm survived. Jorah was a secondary character, same for Edd. Viserion, NK and Lyanna are not even close to that. You could argue Theon comes the closest. Still, pretty miraculous that the main characters all survived. The end of season 1 and the Red Wedding show the vast difference between Martin (books) and the show runners without book content to draw from.

I get that Bran was the bait and they wanted to keep the dragons close - but dragons can fly pretty fast and the Godswood is just a few miles from the battlefield - Jon and Dany just watched people die. I saw the previous episode obviously when they talked about baiting the Night King - but things change once a battle begins. The lack of adjustments made this "team" look like a High School football team going up against Alabama - sure, they had the numbers, but the living were just terrible all the way around.

You're talking about wights (zombies) - I'm talking about White Walkers. Walkers are harder to kill (fire doesn't do it). We've never seen more than 12 with the Night King (when he turned the baby) and never more than 4 in a battle situation (Hardhome). At the end of the second episode they showed us that there were dozens (all the horses - WW ride horses, wights don't) - and then they played no part except to die.
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
30,543
I'll answer out of order here and try to keep it short:

The characters that died were not main characters - none of them even come close to that. Jamie, Arya, Jon, Dany, Sansa all survived. Even the secondary characters like Brienne, Tormund, Varys, Missendie and Greyworm survived. Jorah was a secondary character, same for Edd. Viserion, NK and Lyanna are not even close to that. You could argue Theon comes the closest. Still, pretty miraculous that the main characters all survived. The end of season 1 and the Red Wedding show the vast difference between Martin (books) and the show runners without book content to draw from.

I get that Bran was the bait and they wanted to keep the dragons close - but dragons can fly pretty fast and the Godswood is just a few miles from the battlefield - Jon and Dany just watched people die. I saw the previous episode obviously when they talked about baiting the Night King - but things change once a battle begins. The lack of adjustments made this "team" look like a High School football team going up against Alabama - sure, they had the numbers, but the living were just terrible all the way around.

You're talking about wights (zombies) - I'm talking about White Walkers. Walkers are harder to kill (fire doesn't do it). We've never seen more than 12 with the Night King (when he turned the baby) and never more than 4 in a battle situation (Hardhome). At the end of the second episode they showed us that there were dozens (all the horses - WW ride horses, wights don't) - and then they played no part except to die.
Seriously, when have you seen the walking dead ever get bested by living warriors? The living warriors were always going to lose in a straight up fight and it wasn't going to be close. Living warriors tire, they get discouraged, they become hopeless, they run out of energy....Zombies feel none of that. They are inexorable swarms of despair. The Living would always be the High school team vs. Alabama...