Frustration with Sammy Watkins and Other Thoughts Heading into the Bye

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

Legatron4

Legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
9,427
Name
Wes
I was happy with Sammy yesterday. I thought he ran a really good route against Peterson on that play. The timing was just a bit off. He seems to run full speed on routes that I’ve seen. I feel we are expecting a lot out of him. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out before cutting him in the offseason. He’s still an elite receiver.
 

TexasRam

Legend
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
7,774
I think Mcvay and Goff are still getting to know what Sammy is good at.

It’s like when a friends dog comes over and your dogs spend the first hour smelling it’s butt and barking at it.

We are smelling Watkins butt right now and frankly it’s stinks.

I would design play for him to get the ball quickly into his hands and simplybthe concepts of the deep routes.

The best thing Mcvay can do on a bye week is to grill him on the playbook. Literally ask him what he would do on each play including WR option routes. See if he really understands it. The mental side is lacking but it may be because he had no offseason or preseason.
 

DR RAM

Rams Lifer
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
12,111
Name
Rambeau
I appreciate you couching the OP like you did. It didn’t come off as a gripe or vent to me personally. I saw the same thing but I just thought Sammy was trying to get too cute on a fast developing play. It looked like he thought he would have time to stutter step and still be there for the fade. I see what you’re saying though. He misread the read and should have just headed to the corner of the end zone. He didn’t have Petersen beat by much but all he needed to do was get by him and there would have been nothing PP could do about it.

I’m a little frustrated by Sammy as I had really high hopes. But I think the Rams will work on him during the bye and he is going to start making some noise.
I feel like we have to play him, in hopes that he does get it, and then we'd have an incredible WR room. If we bench him now, he's gone for sure, but I think that is handicapping our potential this year, and (if he leaves or doesn't work out) maybe even the future. I understand why he is still playing, but I'm moving on from him, and I think he's a huge reason why we aren't getting explosive plays, that would take this team to the next level.

In two weeks, if the guy starts balling, I still wouldn't trust him. It's his effort. Look for the ball, don't quit on a play, help your QB, if he makes a bad throw, make an adjustment, etc.
 

LACHAMP46

A snazzy title
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
11,735
On our first drive after half, we had a 3rd and 6 from the Arizona 16. Goff lofted a pass into the end-zone, and unfortunately, nobody was there. It was clear the pass was intended for Watkins. The replay showed Watkins beating Peterson off the LOS badly with a great move when Peterson tried to jam him. Watkins then attempted to run a stutter-and-go while Goff threw the fade. This play forced us to settle for a FG.
Just so we're clear, the ball that sailed to the corner....Sammy seemed to make like 2 different moves...then slowed down?
I think Sammy still hasn't gotten the offense down fully.
Obviously....
Maybe he's got the basics down....but the audibles....seems as if Goff is going no huddle so much...calls are being made at the LOS...almost every drive...every play even.
My hope is that during the bye, Goff and two reliable WRs (Kupp and Woods) will work with Sammy on the offense, and Goff will work with Sammy on building up some chemistry.
Again....obviously this would be the best possible case...and of course have Wood's and Kupp there helping him out.
Our offense is already dominating.
Really? I mean we score a lot...
but that red zone %%%%....??? too many fg's IMO....and the season gets tough coming up....real playoff contenders almost every week...
Since when have we devolved into such delicate flowers that we can't handle it when someone explains what we're doing right or wrong?
images

If that was so easy, there's this other guy we have...
we got rid of:shooting: Brian Quick...:fuelfire::rolllaugh:;)
Personally, I think Josh Reynolds or Mike Thomas can take his place and be just as productive.
Just no....
Sammy Watkins is a difference maker. extraordinaire.
I, personally, am more concerned with Kupp's hands. I assume he'll improve his catch rate as he gets more comfortable to the NFL, but he's dropped alot of catchable passes.
This....while he's a rookie...and rookies do this...yep they do...I'm hoping he's not getting some sort of...IDK...just seems like a large percentage of drops for a guy that's sure-handed...easy catches too.
 

A.J. Hicks

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,565
Name
zoomy
I hate to make a complaint thread after a win, but if y'all bare with me, I think you'll see it's something more. As some have noticed, I've grown a bit frustrated with Sammy over the past few weeks due to his mental miscues. There was one specific play today that I griped about earlier, and I wanted to explain what I saw in hopes people will understand.

On our first drive after half, we had a 3rd and 6 from the Arizona 16. Goff lofted a pass into the end-zone, and unfortunately, nobody was there. It was clear the pass was intended for Watkins. The replay showed Watkins beating Peterson off the LOS badly with a great move when Peterson tried to jam him. Watkins then attempted to run a stutter-and-go while Goff threw the fade. This play forced us to settle for a FG.

I am not privy to the play-call on the play, so this is solely my opinion based on what I know of passing schemes and NFL offenses. It is my belief that Watkins ran the wrong route on the play. The route originally did call for Watkins to run a stutter-and-go, but that was if Peterson played off coverage. If Peterson pressed, my educated (or uneducated) opinion is that Watkins was supposed to convert his route to a fade. This is a pretty typical read that NFL WRs (and college WRs) are asked to make. If the defender comes down and presses you, you convert your route to a go route or a fade route (depending on where you are on the field). Goff threw it as if that was what he expected. It only makes sense because a double move just isn't that effective against a defender in press coverage.

My frustration stems from my belief that if Watkins had run that route based on how badly he beat Peterson off the LOS, he's got an easy TD. I think Sammy still hasn't gotten the offense down fully. I am hopeful that after the bye, he will have everything down and be comfortable.

I do want to make clear that I'm not frustrated with Sammy because I think he's a bad player. It's much the opposite. I have high expectations for him. I think he's one of the five most talented WRs in the NFL. I think he can be a true #1 and difference-maker for us if he gets it all together. He has a rare skill-set. I want to see that guy in our offense. That's why I'm so frustrated he hasn't appeared except for the SF game. I wasn't as high on Sammy coming out of college as a few on the board (*cough* RFIP *cough*), but I still thought he was one of the top talents in that stacked class (I just thought Evans and OBJ were closer in terms of talent to Sammy than some of his biggest fans did).

I still think Sammy is that same guy. He has blazing speed, he can win 50/50 balls, he runs like a HB with the ball in his hands, and he has the strength and agility to be a lethal route runner. I think if he catches up mentally, he can be a game-changer for us over the second half of the year. My hope is that during the bye, Goff and two reliable WRs (Kupp and Woods) will work with Sammy on the offense, and Goff will work with Sammy on building up some chemistry. Our offense is already dominating. Imagine what we could do with Sammy Watkins playing up to his potential. That will open up the deep ball and give us a major target in the red-zone. Also, I'd love for us to get Gerald Everett more involved in the offense in the second half of the season. He's such a talent.

Good post. You can see that Woods is starting to feel very comfortable with this offense.

Cooper Kupp is still the obvious leader mentally in that group. There was at least 3 plays yesterday in which I saw Kupp fully engaged with Goff during an audible so that he could relay that to the other receivers.

One thing I know about this offense is that it is built to give the QB answers to what the defense is giving him. There were enough times yesterday that I saw Watkins with a safety rolling over the top to know that there are times Sammy is just not open. I'd like to see Tavon sent on a Go route when the FS is rolling over to double Sammy. But as mentioned yesterday, it's pretty obvious Mcvay sees Tavon as more of a RB - which is fine.

Maybe send Reynolds on a few go routes!

Like you say. I hope these players take the initiative to try and get together a bit on their bye week.
 

Dxmissile

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,526
That play to Watkins I think it’s just was a timing issue. I don’t have a problem with the double move against press coverage the play is designed to get him free and even though he had Peterson off the line we can’t forget the type of speed and range Peterson has so that double move is still useful.

I think Goff is still trying to gauge out his deep ball but most of the time you wanna double pump with the double move to by more time then lay it out there.

Sometimes Goff sees things and let it fly without letting the entire route develop. If he holds onto the ball a split second longer it’s a touchdown.

That’s just going to come with more familiarity between qb and WR neither one was wrong just a missopportunity and a learning chance
 

A.J. Hicks

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,565
Name
zoomy
I appreciate you couching the OP like you did. It didn’t come off as a gripe or vent to me personally. I saw the same thing but I just thought Sammy was trying to get too cute on a fast developing play. It looked like he thought he would have time to stutter step and still be there for the fade. I see what you’re saying though. He misread the read and should have just headed to the corner of the end zone. He didn’t have Petersen beat by much but all he needed to do was get by him and there would have been nothing PP could do about it.

I’m a little frustrated by Sammy as I had really high hopes. But I think the Rams will work on him during the bye and he is going to start making some noise.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26S-44m_PAI
 

Rams43

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
4,137
I think that jrry32 is onto something.

I think that Watkins still struggles with the audibles and sight adjustments.

I, too, have seen Kupp have to “coach” Watkins pre-snap multiple times.

I applaud the suggestion of devoting time during the bye to working with Watkins, Higbee, Everett, and Reynolds. If the coaches can’t do it due to CBA rules, then the players need to do it on their own. Just make it happen.

Can you imagine what we’d have if Watkins and one of Higbee or Everett suddenly “gets it” after the bye?

Lord...
 

jrry32

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
29,832
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51
Just so we're clear, the ball that sailed to the corner....Sammy seemed to make like 2 different moves...then slowed down?

Yes.

Really? I mean we score a lot...
but that red zone %%%%....??? too many fg's IMO....and the season gets tough coming up....real playoff contenders almost every week...

Really. Scoring is the name of the game, and we're #1.

That play to Watkins I think it’s just was a timing issue. I don’t have a problem with the double move against press coverage the play is designed to get him free and even though he had Peterson off the line we can’t forget the type of speed and range Peterson has so that double move is still useful.

I think Goff is still trying to gauge out his deep ball but most of the time you wanna double pump with the double move to by more time then lay it out there.

Sometimes Goff sees things and let it fly without letting the entire route develop. If he holds onto the ball a split second longer it’s a touchdown.

That’s just going to come with more familiarity between qb and WR neither one was wrong just a missopportunity and a learning chance

A double move against a press CB who you beat off the LOS only gives him time to recover. And Goff didn't throw it like it was a timing issue. As soon as Sammy beat Peterson off the LOS, Goff threw the fade. Sammy ran a stutter-and-go. Somebody definitely misunderstood what route was supposed to be run on the play imo.
 

Merlin

Enjoying the ride
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
37,512
Can you imagine what we’d have if Watkins and one of Higbee or Everett suddenly “gets it” after the bye?

Lord...

No doubt. For my money the TE position is the worst group on offense. Higs has improved a great deal in the run game but he's just never going to be a top target you can depend on. Everett, though... That's where my hope lies tbh.

Watkins is at least doing enough to where defenses roll coverage to him. That's all that matters. But yeah if at some point he's doggin it the coaches need to make the tough call and start giving snaps to either Reynolds or Thomas because I guarantee they'll run them 100% even if they're the 4th read.
 

1maGoh

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
3,957
Oh hail no @LACHAMP46 . I call shenanigans. :redcard:

My point was, the idea that we can just "get him the ball in space" is a flawed argument. Defenses don't just let you get guys in space. That's why, to the point you make so often, you get big fast guys who are smart and can win the matchup. Not somebody who needs special attention for their mystical snowflake skills of being good in space.

Luckily, Watkins is that kind of player: big enough, fast enough, and smart enough to win on his own. He just needs to get it.
 

jacktheripper85

Starter
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Messages
958
I think that jrry32 is onto something.

I think that Watkins still struggles with the audibles and sight adjustments.

I, too, have seen Kupp have to “coach” Watkins pre-snap multiple times.

I applaud the suggestion of devoting time during the bye to working with Watkins, Higbee, Everett, and Reynolds. If the coaches can’t do it due to CBA rules, then the players need to do it on their own. Just make it happen.

Can you imagine what we’d have if Watkins and one of Higbee or Everett suddenly “gets it” after the bye?

Lord...

Not surprising Watkins and TA are having a tough time grasping McVay’s offense. If I remember correctly if you combined both their Wonderlic scores you could do it on one hand.
 

blackbart

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
6,243
Name
Tim
I want to see Watkins game planned into being that #1 guy but I'm not sure he's ready for that in this offense or tht this offense NEEDS that kind of plan. 5-2 and with a couple of breaks 7-0.

The quick slant to him is good, the red zone was good before the concussion. There have been a couple of head scratchers but I expected as much coming over as late as he did.

As for Kupp relaying play calls, it looks to me like that is by design, not because Watkins doesn't know what to do but because Kupp is in the slot and can get the information to Watkins so he doesn't need to come all the way in from the wide set to get it. I think it it happening on the other side of the set too and isn't really that big a deal.

Get him a few quick catches early in the game and then let's see what happens. Call a go route or double move where he knows he is getting the ball thrown to him and let's see if he runs out the route, throw him a fade from deep in the red zone and let's see him go fight for the ball.

I haven't forgotten how bad this team looked last year.
 

payote75

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
3,890
Name
Payote75
I think next game might tells us what we need to know. If he gets a lot more targets then they know they need to get him involved more. But if we see more of the same I gotta think they're not satisfied enough with him at the moment. Which would make me think they won't resign him if he doesn't come cheaper. Face it, his history indicates the "We not Me" mantra is not a strong point with him.

In my opinion I they should work harder to involve him more. He does have that kind of talent and and will be more engaged if he gets the targets. And don't want that trade to be one sided. They gave up a decent corner and lost depth to get a guy like Watkins. You have to at least try to make it work. If not, well, You'll have more money in next year's free agency period.


I think it will be tough for him as he will face our old friend Janoris Jenkins and I'm sure the ball hawking Landon Collins will be near by as well!!!
 

Elmgrovegnome

Legend
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
22,035
Being a big Ohio State fan, I vividly remember this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUsEuhW1MUA


Now, I know that Sammy is a legit downfield threat and a good WR, but why don't we just get the ball in his hands? Scheme him some more screens and quick passes - he is lethal after the catch.


Agreed. Watkins could be used more creativity, however if he struggles with knowing the plays, maybe scaling him back for a while is better. Simplify things for him.


OK... I'll say it first... Sammy may be a bit of a head case. Just like in Buffalo. He's got 9 more games to figure it out, or he will be looking for another team next year. Personally, I think Josh Reynolds or Mike Thomas can take his place and be just as productive.

All of the public griping isn't the sign of great intelligence.


I think Mcvay and Goff are still getting to know what Sammy is good at.

It’s like when a friends dog comes over and your dogs spend the first hour smelling it’s butt and barking at it.

We are smelling Watkins butt right now and frankly it’s stinks.

I would design play for him to get the ball quickly into his hands and simplybthe concepts of the deep routes.

The best thing Mcvay can do on a bye week is to grill him on the playbook. Literally ask him what he would do on each play including WR option routes. See if he really understands it. The mental side is lacking but it may be because he had no offseason or preseason.

Yes, trim down his number of plays for abit.

Good post. You can see that Woods is starting to feel very comfortable with this offense.

Cooper Kupp is still the obvious leader mentally in that group. There was at least 3 plays yesterday in which I saw Kupp fully engaged with Goff during an audible so that he could relay that to the other receivers.

One thing I know about this offense is that it is built to give the QB answers to what the defense is giving him. There were enough times yesterday that I saw Watkins with a safety rolling over the top to know that there are times Sammy is just not open. I'd like to see Tavon sent on a Go route when the FS is rolling over to double Sammy. But as mentioned yesterday, it's pretty obvious Mcvay sees Tavon as more of a RB - which is fine.

Maybe send Reynolds on a few go routes!

Like you say. I hope these players take the initiative to try and get together a bit on their bye week.

I would like to see them run two receivers deep, now and then. Open the underneath, if the deep receivers aren't open.
 

UKram

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
3,369
Why the Higbee hate ... ? I think he is quietly having a decent season again it essentially his rookie season and all I hear is it takes a TE 2-3 years to get to grips with the NFL
 

jap

Legend
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,556
Wilkins said it would take him a week and a half to grasp the offense. :thinking:

Keep in mind that Sammy was coming form the Bills who featured a dominant run game. Their passing offense is not nearly as sophisticated as the McVay Show. Sammy's "week and a half" prediction was probably based more on the Bill's relatively sparse passing scheme than on Sean's feature-rich airshow.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,635
As for Kupp relaying play calls, it looks to me like that is by design, not because Watkins doesn't know what to do but because Kupp is in the slot and can get the information to Watkins so he doesn't need to come all the way in from the wide set to get it. I think it it happening on the other side of the set too and isn't really that big a deal.

That makes sense. It's what I saw.

Keep in mind that Sammy was coming form the Bills who featured a dominant run game. Their passing offense is not nearly as sophisticated as the McVay Show. Sammy's "week and a half" prediction was probably based more on the Bill's relatively sparse passing scheme than on Sean's feature-rich airshow.

That could be it. They got to coach him up if it is. He is a big piece of the puzzle for the Rams to take the next step.