For those who want to remake the O-line

[So Ram]

Hard to not see a need for improvements.
Hard to see where improvements will come from.
A mid level FA?
A mid round draft pick?
The Rams could develop from within and be just fine.
If that’s the plan and it works they could go 11-5 or 12-4.
If that’s the plan (see Noteboom and Allen) and it doesn’t work they could go 6-10.
The key to me is Whitworth coming back without breaking the bank and Havenstein returning to form.
Having Whitworth and Hav back at the T’s allows Edwards to settle in at one G spot.
This is also the most likely scenario for success in my opinion.
I think it is very possible Corbett settles in at LG as well.
That leaves C.....question marks abound.

I think your right & when the dust settles this might be the end result.

 

[So Ram]

There is a lot here for good discussion.

The oline is a big mystery for me. I see where @oldnotdead is coming from. There seems good pieces.

How do you project how it could gel?

A big concern... we GOT to run the ball better. Is this that unit?

First off sorry to blow this thread up , but I’m fired up about this.

MCVAY messed huge !!!!

JOHN SULLIVAN!!!! Who watched L Last seasons Super Bowl ??? Cooks missed 2 catches & Int. Littleton running down the field to cover Gronk 3 plays in a row to the end zone only to have Brady to thread the needle & break our hearts, but knowing Goff is a Great 2 minute QB.

The Hold on JOHN SULLIVAN was Pure BS!!!
Todd Gurley finally made a nice run !! The call takes The Rams of field goal range &
caused all the other stuff to happen. It changed the Whole Super Bowl & momentum of the game.

Yes he had a bad game, but Austin Blythe was horrible. Just tough to think what Sullivan meant to The Rams!!!

The thing is now is the future & The Offensive Line is full of Young experienced players that get a full offseason.

To think MCSNEAD is going to PAY offensive line is Not there MO !!

 

[So Ram]

Evans better than Havenstien? I don't know about that. Evans almost never was left on an Island by himself, he got a lot of help from the TE's.

Big Rob had an off year. He had a lot going on and came in to TC out of shape. Evans has a ways to go before he equals Big Rob's 2018 form.

I expect havenstien to be the starting RT coming into TC. If Whitworth is gone it could be Edwards and Evens competing for the LT spot.

There are at least 5 centers in the draft that are better than Allen. Rams need to come away with one.

We disagree a lot.. I won’t doubt Rob Havenstien will start this season though.

I could see a lot of cross training going on this season, starting in OTA’s before you get to camp & see.

 

[den-the-coach]

There are at least 5 centers in the draft that are better than Allen. Rams need to come away with one.

Cesar Ruiz of Michigan or Matt Hennessy of Temple and I would not mind Ben Bartch for LT either and then let the competition begin.

 

[So Ram]

Cesar Ruiz of Michigan or Matt Hennessy of Temple and I would not mind Ben Bartch for LT either and then let the competition begin.

The Best thing you said was COMPETITION

Mcvay (Kromer,Snead)first pissed me of by drafting Allen !! Waste of a pick !!!
What really needed to happen was to get a starting RG !! Austin Blythe was the perfect freaking swing G/C . He had won the Starting RG postion by default from Jason Brown who was suspended.

The Rams drafted Noteboom who was an excellent swing T !! That is keeping everything in a box.
—Demby was a solid late RD pick.

Following the SuperBowl season, yes Brian Allan held his own against Da Bears, but late shows me Sullivan was not 100% late in the season if reflecting back.We can all play Monday Night Offensive Lineman, but this is my side of thinking when things went down.If any of the top 5 went down The Rams were screwed as much if not more than 2019 season ?? Noteboom being the swing 4 if anything really went down.

I was cool with Roger Saffold being let go, because that was my for gone conclusion last off season. Once he signed though & knowing The Rams over spent on Cooks because why ?? Comp picks aren’t bad especially when The Rams had Reynolds for depth. -Yes Copper Kupp was still a question mark because of Knee surgery though.
— BTW- watching Super Bowl lose my MVP was Corey Littleton, even though he was on coverage on Gronks TD catch. Why not extend him. He was a Special Teams All/Pro plus your MIC LBer !!!! Talk about Ogletree ??? What never made sense was The Rams waited to sign Corey Littleton & then Snead saying he got paid the most for a UDFA ??? WTF ???? I’m not a cap guy, but have always been GM at Heart since 5 years old with the Angels. Talk about a Mess . Thank God no Salary at this point. Just saying signing a guy before his 6th season to a long term deal for good faith !! Take care of your own !!!!

Then now I’m scratching my head about big contracts & Saffold’s contract didn’t break the bank & thinking back at McSnead signing Tru to a Double Franchise Tag & Joyner of all players as well ?? Just not franchise guys to me. It’s called POOR planning to the future !!

—What makes me REALLY PISSED NOW !!!
I go back to my days watching The Rams at Charger Stadium with Whitworth & Sullivan. At the time both players were new to the team. John Sullivan was a late FA signing who I really liked. McSnead & Kromer put in a match offer for that swing G/C who stayed in Buffalo all kinds of Rams fans feel in love with.

Meed to continue later, but Allen vs Sullivan??? WTF ??? Demby vs Sullivan???

WTF - is MCSNEAD building??? So Pissed !!!
I’ve watched MCVAY his first 3 years. I have always had Question Marks !!!!
— First off I’m a Screamer & LES SNEAD has started at me a couple times & I totally pissed DEMOFF OFF !!! He wanted a piece of me !!! — Yes another thing that HAS ME REALLY PISSED off is TYLER HIGBEE being a
FREAKING PUNK when his TRUE color SHINES!!! I’m no prude, but don’t go to a All/Pro event & hold your JUNK in front of the TV !!! YEAH PETERS got flagged & was caught up in the Moment!! I get that. Still classless. HIGBEE, I thought got passed his Western Michigan days ?? At least he is staying out of Jail & not getting into any Bar Rooms Fans. Thanks Jared Goff.

 

[KJD_Ram]

something was definitely off with the coaching if Demby was the first guy off the bench...

 

[BonifayRam]

In 2018 the Rams began to rebuild their O-line. That year they drafted Noteboom and Allen their LT and C of the future. In his limited snaps in 2018 Noteboom played well at LT displaying the potential they saw in their scouting. In Allen, they had their Center who spent the year being mentored by an excellent John Sullivan who was brought in on a short contract for that purpose.

In 2019 they finished their starting 0-line rebuild with drafting Edwards and Evans and trading for Corbett someone they had targeted in his draft but was picked by Cleveland before they had a chance to grab him.

How have they done? Before his injury, Allen was rated by many services including PFF as playing as well or better than Sullivan.

#LARams Austin Corbett and David Edwards were able to provide some impressive production in 2019 during a period of OL uncertainty

Among all Guards (min 500 snaps):
- Corbett allowed 11 pressures (4th) and 1 sack (T-7th)
- Edwards allowed 14 pressures (T-6th) and 1 sack (T-7th)

According to the rankings, the Ram rebuilt interior o-line is looking pretty darn good. There is no question that Evans easily outplayed Havenstein at RT. Give this unit time to gel and there is real talent on the o-line. Their problems were in essence poor technique in the run attack. That IMO is at the feet of Kromer and Dickerson who did a piss poor job in coaching them up to make the transition from a simplistic outside zone to more of a power gap scheme. But the underlying talent is clearly there if it is properly developed.

Poor coaching also was apparent in the RBs when they really struggled to understand how to execute the new run scheme.

They look to have decent depth with Brewer and Shelton as their gameday reserves.

The only concern would be when Noteboom will be 100% ready. In that case, they could simply move Edwards to LT and Brewer or Shelton at RG until Noteboom returns. What I'm saying is that McVay and Snead have assembled their starters on the o-line, they simply need time to develop and gel as a unit. IMO this could be a very good o-line, especially in pass protection which is in actuality the most difficult skill the o-line must master.

As I've postulated in another tread I see this team moving to a power gap run attack. I think they might draft a FB or they simply could have Mundt or better yet Blanton at 6'6" 266 lbs, as a lead blocker out of a pulling TE or H-back position. They also add value as receivers as well.

The bottom line I simply don't see the need to spend draft capital on the o-line at this point and neither do I see a reason to be overly concerned. As long as the coaches step up their game the unit should be fine.

Might Snead be a cloaked Master blended OL Distiller ?

Some aging is needed in starting OL'ers. Most of the Rams failed 2019 OL consisted of 3 aged OL'ers with Whitworth- Havenstein & Blythe mixed in with 2 first yr starters. So with the OL having a majority of seasoned starters it still was in fail mode most of the season. That 2019 blended aged mixture was distasteful.

Rams current 2020 OL has only one signed aged OL'er in Havenstein. High probability Rams will go with 3 OL starters each having less than 10 gms worth of starts in 2019. The 5th position center remains a big question. I might need to point out that Snead has four centers already signed with Allen- Shelton- Trewyn- Kolone. Even Snead's 2018 6th rd drafted pick & former college LT Jamil Demby saw some action @ OC. So there is a good chance that the starting OC will be from one of the five. Only one of the five has more than 8 NFL starts.

"There’s an art and science to blending—and Fistful is a balance of both,”

 

[FrantikRam]

People forget that in 2018, while we did go 13-3, we lost to the Eagles, Bears and Patriots because our OL got manhandled. Whitworth and Saffold were good, but the C/RG spots have been weak since McVay took over.

 

[den-the-coach]

People forget that in 2018, while we did go 13-3, we lost to the Eagles, Bears and Patriots because our OL got manhandled. Whitworth and Saffold were good, but the C/RG spots have been weak since McVay took over.

I thought John Sullivan had some outstanding games especially in 2017, but it was time to move on from him, just not Brian Allen IMHO. Moving forward, we have to see how this plays out because OL Coach Aaron Kromer will have less to worry about and can get back to coaching the OL up. I'm sure the Rams will draft a minimum of two offensive linemen in the upcoming draft and then let's see where the chips fall?

 

[ReekofRams]

Might Snead be a cloaked Master blended OL Distiller ?

Some aging is needed in starting OL'ers. Most of the Rams failed 2019 OL consisted of 3 aged OL'ers with Whitworth- Havenstein & Blythe mixed in with 2 first yr starters. So with the OL having a majority of seasoned starters it still was in fail mode most of the season. That 2019 blended aged mixture was distasteful.

Rams current 2020 OL has only one signed aged OL'er in Havenstein. High probability Rams will go with 3 OL starters each having less than 10 gms worth of starts in 2019. The 5th position center remains a big question. It should be pointed out that Snead has four centers already signed with Allen- Shelton- Trewyn- Kolone. Even Snead former drafted OT Jamil Demby saw some action @ OC. So there is a good chance that the starting OC will be from one of the five. Only one of the five has more than 8 NFL starts.

"There’s an art and science to blending—and Fistful is a balance of both,”

Bonifay you’re trying to make me think here. Please don’t! I take it Trewyn is maybe Brewer? And please don’t tell me Snead is a former drafted OT named Jamil Demby who saw some action @ OC!
But the Rams need to go in house yet let go of the old (Whit) and the bust and go with the sturdy who have at least shown some potential.

 

[BonifayRam]

Bonifay you’re trying to make me think here. Please don’t! I take it Trewyn is maybe Brewer? And please don’t tell me Snead is a former drafted OT named Jamil Demby who saw some action @ OC!
But the Rams need to go in house yet let go of the old (Whit) and the bust and go with the sturdy who have at least shown some potential.

Sorry about that causing you to ponder.

No, I was focusing mainly on the center position reference Nate Trewyn. He was signed after the Buc's released him from their 2019 53 player rosters, after having a rash of injuries to other units on defense. Buc's were 3 deep @ OC. Trewyn was signed to the Rams Practice Squad last season. He remained there & did well enough for Kromer that Snead recently signed him in 2020 to a 2-year contract. Trewyn was a highly recognized & awarded small college pure center with excellent size in comparison to Allen/ Shelton & Blythe.

Brewer is not in the center conversation he looks like our 2020 season #6 OL'er being the swing OT/OG for four posts unless Noteboom has a miracle recovery or Snead drafts an OT with #52 in April.

I agree with letting Whitworth seek work elsewhere due to his ultra-high price tag. Most here desire Whitworth's return in 2020 & there is some small merit to it.

From my point of view currently Rams 2019 veteran duo @ OT...(Havenstein/ Whitworth) were not close to being good enough to desire a repeat performance in 2020. The salary cap hit price tag for both $25 million ....way overpriced for what the Rams got from them in 2019 on the field. Both of these veteran OT's were 2/5th's part of one of the worse OL's in the NFL. The Rams must have better performance from their OT in 2020 along with the interior OL.

Rams have no real options on Havenstein this year but that's not the case with Whitworth.

 

[Kevin]

Trewyn and eight others signed two-year reserve/future contracts. It’s like a practice squad contract. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

 

[baconandbread]

Using my completely inaccurate powers to see into the future, I see us drafting a starting Centre early and a mauling Guard for depth/future starter. Hopefully since we have an OC now this means Kromer can get back to solely focusing on the O-line development.

 

[Merlin]

#LARams Austin Corbett and David Edwards were able to provide some impressive production in 2019 during a period of OL uncertainty

Among all Guards (min 500 snaps):
- Corbett allowed 11 pressures (4th) and 1 sack (T-7th)
- Edwards allowed 14 pressures (T-6th) and 1 sack (T-7th)

According to the rankings, the Ram rebuilt interior o-line is looking pretty darn good. There is no question that Evans easily outplayed Havenstein at RT. Give this unit time to gel and there is real talent on the o-line. Their problems were in essence poor technique in the run attack. That IMO is at the feet of Kromer and Dickerson who did a piss poor job in coaching them up to make the transition from a simplistic outside zone to more of a power gap scheme. But the underlying talent is clearly there if it is properly developed.

One thing with SNAPS as used above is that there's a really big difference in a guy who just barely cleared 500 snaps (i.e. Corbett who had 541) and a guy who starts an entire season and doubles that up (Whit for example had 1098). Not knocking Corbett btw, as I was impressed by some things he did, but he would have had higher pressures and probably sacks in doubled snaps.

Also in a shorter sample size for a lineman you get less of that effect where DCs have the opportunity to focus in on and gameplan weaknesses. I mean look at Havenstein... The moment he started struggling with speed rushes out wide it was all he saw.

Now some of that stuff can be mitigated by scheme but the Rams just had too much of it, too many weaknesses they had to scheme for up front. Even with Edwards, Evans, and Corbett in there at 3 of their OL spots they had to move the pocket non-stop to keep Goff clean. Check out that last 49er game the pocket movement was insane. There was simply no way McVay was going to allow them to pass rush straight-up, because he knew what would happen. Whit in the scheme did a lot of avoiding Bosa too. And Edwards got worked over by Armstead.

So personally I am not going to buy the "stand pat" stuff on the OL. The Rams might, and you might end up being correct. But there's no way I would, this line needs an infusion of talent IMO, at least one good starter and then depth. So yeah we'll see how it goes.

 

[OldSchool]

One thing with SNAPS as used above is that there's a really big difference in a guy who just barely cleared 500 snaps (i.e. Corbett who had 541) and a guy who starts an entire season and doubles that up (Whit for example had 1098). Not knocking Corbett btw, as I was impressed by some things he did, but he would have had higher pressures and probably sacks in doubled snaps.

Also in a shorter sample size for a lineman you get less of that effect where DCs have the opportunity to focus in on and gameplan weaknesses. I mean look at Havenstein... The moment he started struggling with speed rushes out wide it was all he saw.

Now some of that stuff can be mitigated by scheme but the Rams just had too much of it, too many weaknesses they had to scheme for up front. Even with Edwards, Evans, and Corbett in there at 3 of their OL spots they had to move the pocket non-stop to keep Goff clean. Check out that last 49er game the pocket movement was insane. There was simply no way McVay was going to allow them to pass rush straight-up, because he knew what would happen. Whit in the scheme did a lot of avoiding Bosa too. And Edwards got worked over by Armstead.

So personally I am not going to buy the "stand pat" stuff on the OL. The Rams might, and you might end up being correct. But there's no way I would, this line needs an infusion of talent IMO, at least one good starter and then depth. So yeah we'll see how it goes.

Yeah just a flat number is a flawed argument. Even using a percentage of snap doesn’t tell a true story. Are you good having a 5% pressure rate against the Falcons and their weak pass rush? Or better having a 10% rate against the Niners? Just blindly regurgitating stats without context does little.

 

[Loyal]

Yeah just a flat number is a flawed argument. Even using a percentage of snap doesn’t tell a true story. Are you good having a 5% pressure rate against the Falcons and their weak pass rush? Or better having a 10% rate against the Niners? Just blindly regurgitating stats without context does little.

STAT DENIER!

 

[jrry32]

We don't need to completely rebuild the line. We do need to bring Whit back and upgrade at either LG or C.

 

[iamme33]

lt= whitworth or noteboom lg= Edwards c= blythe rg= evans rt = havenstien this is what most think will be starting ol next year. in my mind every position has a question about it. lt question if its whitworth is age if it is noteboom it is injury recovery. lg question is experience same with c and rg. rt question is poor play last year. also we are judging Edwards and evans when they had te help from 12 personel. they did not play well against dallas when we went back to 11 personel. anyway there are a lot of questions to answer on offense but df is probably going to lose the most to the salary cap. so where do you guys think most of are resources should go. my self I want a center with our 2nd rnd pick a huge tackle with 3 rnd pick. if mister huge does not work out at ot we can move him to og. my reasoning for this is offense is more fun to watch.

 

[Soul Surfer]

If they re-sign Blythe I think the only big question is LT.
Granted, that is a BIG question. (LT)

But we have 2 or 3 prospects we can rate in Camp.
I can still see them using our top pick on a left tackle if their prospect is sitting there waiting for them when #52 rolls around.

 

[Soul Surfer]

We don't need to completely rebuild the line. We do need to bring Whit back and upgrade at either LG or C.

I take it you're not sold on Corbett?