Football expert Florio determines Spygate is overstated and "moderate"

[wmc540]

I told my best friend after 9/11... and I know it sucks to say this...

"there is no way a team other than one named "the Patriots" wins the Super Bowl this year. Which sucks because this is our year."

And you see how it all lined up and... well...

Spygate is a legit issue, but the 9/11 theory is and always will be up there in the sky with the chem trails. It actually demeans the significance of spygate.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I don't think he's even good at that.

He wrote a friggen article saying that "The Seahawks Locker room doesn't feel Russel Wilson is black enough" and tried to make it into an issue..

Guys a grade A tool. He has a degree in Law yet he basically is a reporter for sports - bet he failed as a lawyer as well.

He's the Jerry Springer/Maury of Sports reporting

He couldn't stop speculating in the court room. Apparently it's acceptable in the sports world. alm:

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yeah, I get that. I totally understand they cheated and the punishment should have been much worse. I would like to see a documentary on it. But I doubt they would ever reveal that info.

If they really do surveillance that's really, really pathetic and should be banned forever and ever. I think that might be a little far fetched but I could see that as a possibility. I wouldn't put anything past the Patriots.

There is a very revealing book about Spygate. Bellicheck has a friend with a photographic memory and he is the key that puts the stolen signals to use. He can instantly say what the play is and they also put an extra speaker in Brady's helmet. The communication between the QB and coaches is supposed to cut off at a certain point before the play. I think it is at 20 seconds. This allows plays to be called in. However the second speaker stays on right up to before the snap so the Patriots could tell the QB what he D was doing.

That is what hey were caught doing.

Belicheck will always be a cheatr because this is a omplex and devious plan that he used for years to defraud other teams and all fans. It makes me wonder what he is still doing that we dont know about.

One thing he supposedly is still doing is jam other teams QB radio signals in home games, or makes the reception very bad.

 

[Mackeyser]

I just think it was the confluence of two corrupt influences.

Patriots were cheating. The NFL didn't know at the time.

The NFL wanted to control the narrative as it always does. Once the games restarted, the calls and win/loss record changed and the rookie QB just started...winning.

I don't necessarily think when the NFL started "helping" the Pats, that the goal was to "give" them a Super Bowl.

But, once they got in the playoffs... I woulda bet every last penny on them to win. There was no chance they weren't going to win. And has hard as I rooted for my Rams, I couldn't shake what I knew. Then the game started and everything I believed was on display.

So, I, personally, don't see it as some organized coherent conspiracy type thing.

I see it as various corruptions that coalesced into a much larger corruption. Essentially, the Patriots and the NFL were both cheating on behalf of the Patriots, each without the other's knowledge or benefit of that knowledge. The Pats for competitive advantage, the NFL because they sought to control and thus capitalize on the narrative as large corporations tend to do.

So, really, I just see it as two disparate rule breakers who both broke rules to benefit the same entity, but didn't know about the other. The end result was much bigger than either would have guessed.

I would agree in arguing against a grand conspiracy that the NFL sat down in a back room and decided that the Patriots should win the Super Bowl because...9/11. Firstly, they aren't organized enough to manage it. I mean...really. That part doesn't pass the smell test. These guys may know financials backwards and forwards, but they aren't exactly trained in spycraft... and if they were as discreet as they'd need to be to pull off something like this, then we wouldn't have all the OTHER incidents of mismanagement we have. So, really, that argues against the Grand conspiracy. I'm with ya on that.

That said... as @Boff097 has pointed out, it's a statistical anomaly that certain teams have more incorrect calls go in their favor than against them. I know over the last few years, my napkin math has about a 3 bad call to a 1.5 good call ratio for the Rams. I've watched almost every game in that span including two live games. In watching random league games. I've noticed promoted league matchups, the "marquee" teams are reversed, approx 1.5 bad calls to 3 good calls per game. Good calls being in their favor, not correctly called.

In the "Age of parity" when a drive can be killed by one penalty and with so many games decided by LESS than a touchdown, every game is extremely sensitive to refereeing.

We've seen it anecdotally as Rams fans, but there have also been a few studies that basically bear out that it's better to not be penalized, in general. That seems obvious, but the question was posed about whether the aggressive style that leads to more penalties was worth it. In general, the penalties were NOT worth it.

So, with institutional "points of emphasis" and bits of bias... like how guys on the various outlets are saying refs look at how much teams are penalized... and ref accordingly. Which is terribly biased. It means if a team was poorly officiated at some point and got a ton of flags, or played poorly and was flagged a bunch, that can become an institutional bias. That institutional bias can keep bad teams bad and keep good teams good. The removal of that bias, like Refs not wanting to throw a flag on a Patriot right after 9/11... can allow a mediocre team to win games it shouldn't win.

Which it did. Enough to get to and win the Super Bowl.

 

[NukeRam]

I know the Pats cheated. But they only taped walkthroughs right? Don't you still have to execute plays correctly and have enough talent to score points? I mean with all the technology now you can pretty much have whatever video tapes you want. Plus they haven't stopped winning since they got caught. Maybe I don't understand quite to the extent of which they cheated. But I feel like people act like any old college team could have went out and went 16-0 just by taping walkthroughs. Did you see some of the catches Moss had that year? My point is, I think people(especially Rams fans) blow this out of proportion a little. The Super Bowl I can understand. The Patriots shouldn't have won and taping our practices probably helped. But besides that you can't deny how good they've been all these years.

Yeah you still have to be a decent team but it only takes a couple of plays per game to go your way, especially in their 3 super bowls won by just 3 points each. Marshal said the Rams practiced at least 4 new red zone plays, that they had NEVER run before. When they got into those formations, the Pats changed to the exact right defense EVERY time. The odds are against luck. I also disagree with some of the other posters who think Belicheat stopped cheating once he got caught. He didn't care he was breaking the rules before. He didn't really get punished, so why stop? If it means more pay, more wins, more notoriety, more super bowls and probably a trip to Canton. Why would he stop.

 

[FRO]

Who is worse Florio or La Confora?

 

[LesBaker]

I don't think they taped a walkthrough. They DID tape defensive signals in every game from when Belichick became coach until they got caught.

Yes, you still have to execute on the field, but knowing what play the defense is calling while the other team doesn't have such an advantage is huge. And I've always been of the school of thought that if you cheat, you are tacitly admitting that you NEED to cheat in order to win.

If we had a commissioner more concerned with actual integrity of the league than perceived integrity of the league, the penalty would have been retroactive forfeiture of every single game since Belichick became coach, including the 3 Super Bowls.

FYI the did it after they got caught and were told to stop doing it, that's why the fines were SO huge. They disregarded the warning they had gotten a couple of years earlier. The NFL sent out a memo to all 32 teams too. They were originally caught filming by the Packers.

There are people who say they were there and that the walk through was taped, and Matt Walsh has disappeared without so much as an interview. If it happened or not who knows.

 

[FRO]

Funny how the much the Saints got punished as opposed to what the Patriots received.

 

[Boffo97]

FYI the did it after they got caught and were told to stop doing it, that's why the fines were SO huge. They disregarded the warning they had gotten a couple of years earlier. The NFL sent out a memo to all 32 teams too. They were originally caught filming by the Packers.

There are people who say they were there and that the walk through was taped, and Matt Walsh has disappeared without so much as an interview. If it happened or not who knows.

The problem with that statement is that the fines weren't huge. The fines were a joke.

As I've said before, if I was making NFL money, I'd trade $750K and a late 1st round pick for 3 Super Bowls every single day and walk away from the trade laughing.

 

[LesBaker]

The problem with that statement is that the fines weren't huge. The fines were a joke.

As I've said before, if I was making NFL money, I'd trade $750K and a late 1st round pick for 3 Super Bowls every single day and walk away from the trade laughing.

The fines were the largest ever levied in pro sports and I think I'd trade like you would. But that doesn't mean the fines weren't huge.

They were huge.

Now that I've run circles around you it would be a good idea to move along before you get humiliated again.

 

[Boffo97]

The fines were the largest ever levied in pro sports and I think I'd trade like you would. But that doesn't mean the fines weren't huge.

They were huge.

Now that I've run circles around you it would be a good idea to move along before you get humiliated again.

Your brilliant tactic of agreeing with the main part of my argument has flummoxed, bewildered and bamboozled me! You win this round, but there will be a reckoning!

 

[Ram Quixote]

If the league let all the information out instead of hiding it, it would be a much bigger scandal. They robbed us of a Super Bowl by cheating.

IMO, Belicheat told Goodell exactly what was on those tapes. Now, if one wanted to jump start a cover-up, that's precisely what I would do. That is, threaten the authority of those in power. So, ultimately the tapes were destroyed. The only remaining question is what did Belicheat have over Goodell?

I don't necessarily agree with Mackeyser that neither one knew what the other was doing. I would assume that there was some communication between the NFL and Bob Kraft regarding their intentions. I would guess that this communication was recorded by the Patriots.

Mutually Assured Destruction?

 

[FRO]

IMO, Belicheat told Goodell exactly what was on those tapes. Now, if one wanted to jump start a cover-up, that's precisely what I would do. That is, threaten the authority of those in power. So, ultimately the tapes were destroyed. The only remaining question is what did Belicheat have over Goodell?

I don't necessarily agree with Mackeyser that neither one knew what the other was doing. I would assume that there was some communication between the NFL and Bob Kraft regarding their intentions. I would guess that this communication was recorded by the Patriots.

Mutually Assured Destruction?

Goodell is in Robert Craft's back pocket. They go way back.

 

[Alan]

Belicheat is the Barry Bonds of football.

 

[Robocop]

grow a pair of balls Florio. or do your homework. filming wasn't the only thing they were doing. and an All-Pro nameless QB recently said that with those tapes and knowing the defensive calls a decent QB can have a 70% success rate on offense with that. 70%! how many years were they doing this and how many Super Bowls? the fact that these worms think its not a big deal or try to underplay it is sickening and a disgrace to the sport. and a big fuck you to anyone that doesn't think it should warrant a barring from the Hall of Fame, removal of championships and a removal in the record books. AND Brady's 46 post season TD passes

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Bill Belicheck should have been banned for life with no chance of return. Everything should have been laid out on the table for all to see. Victories stripped, records stripped. Then and only then would Goodell have been able to fully restore the integrity of the game.

The way it was handled tells me that cheating and manipulation by the league is part of their regular business dealings and it will continue.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

“I just think it’s flat-out disrespectful,” Harrison said. “I always have respect for Don Shula. I don’t think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that he’s the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what he’s done, what he’s been able to accomplish. But it’s one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you don’t come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think it’s flat-out disrespectful.”

But hes a known cheater, Harrison, so that "success" is bullshit. My co - worker's (pats fan) favorite thing to say in defense to Bill is "if you ain't cheating, you ain't winning" He's surrounded by Raider fans(3) and a Rams fan.

 

[cgsuddeath]

I know the Pats cheated. But they only taped walkthroughs right? Don't you still have to execute plays correctly and have enough talent to score points? I mean with all the technology now you can pretty much have whatever video tapes you want. Plus they haven't stopped winning since they got caught. Maybe I don't understand quite to the extent of which they cheated. But I feel like people act like any old college team could have went out and went 16-0 just by taping walkthroughs. Did you see some of the catches Moss had that year? My point is, I think people(especially Rams fans) blow this out of proportion a little. The Super Bowl I can understand. The Patriots shouldn't have won and taping our practices probably helped. But besides that you can't deny how good they've been all these years.

Yes I can deny it and anyone who thinks differently should read spygate because it's more than that.

 

[A55VA6]

Florio.... what a dumb fuck.