Fitting Tavon into the run heavy offense

[…..]

.......Are WRs just banished from the NFL if they can't make the Rams roster?

Yes they are. All of them except for Greg Salas

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think I remember hearing there was an attitude there. If that is the case - he's not talented enough to have an attitude and be worth it.

I thought that was the Lindenwood WR Andrew Helmick from the year before.

 

[Memento]

I thought that was the Lindenwood WR Andrew Helmick from the year before.

Yeah, that was Helmick. Moe didn't have a bad attitude; he just couldn't play.

 

[Dxmissile]

I'm expecting a Pro bowl season as a punt returner from TA. I have no expectations outside of that. Most disappointing player in the Fisher/Snead era so far. No blue font.

So not Pead

 

[tbux]

Fisher says a lot of these things in the off season. While I am not totally discounting what he says, it doesn't always come to fruition.

He makes these sorts of comments for just about anybody he is asked about. But they still only have one football. So until it happens, I remain skeptical.

" we could have done a better job of that" I agree. He is basically saying we didn't use him as well as we could have. Also mentioned using him on deep routes (tell me why we never even tried to??? telling me he cant run a go route?) No I think it was BS and I think Cig will use him more and more effectively. We are going to find out this year why he hasn't done anything yet- it was BS and I for one am glad he is in GA.

 

[Amitar]

Cig would do himself a favor and go back and see how Tavon and Bailey were used at WV. They both contributed to each others success.
Robocops post was spot on.
Tavon can play a huge role in this offense.

 

[Amitar]

So not Pead

Pead a a dang good player who was never given a real chance. Continuing to use him as a kickoff returner was stupid beyond belief.

 

[-X-]

" we could have done a better job of that" I agree. He is basically saying we didn't use him as well as we could have. Also mentioned using him on deep routes (tell me why we never even tried to??? telling me he cant run a go route?) No I think it was BS and I think Cig will use him more and more effectively. We are going to find out this year why he hasn't done anything yet- it was BS and I for one am glad he is in GA.

Well, think about what you're implying.

Schotty didn't know TA could run a 9 or go route, but you did.
OR
Schotty knew he could, but chose not to use him in that capacity, because Schotty doesn't like to move the ball downfield.

Meanwhile, he used the shit out of Givens as a rookie on deep patterns and it worked.

 

[WvuIN02]

"We're going to make a concerted effort to get the ball to him and create matchups, and I think we could have done a better job of that". -- Jeff Fisher.

These are things the OC is supposed to do as part of his job...

"The one thing he can do, is get behind you outside". -- Jeff Fisher

Notice he didn't say can't get off the line of scrimmage, or can't because he runs bad routes......can means is fully capable of doing.

Neither of those things tells me that Tavon is lacking in route running, or the blame is on him, but rather in how he was used. Sure he can improve like every player can, but JF pretty much said where the issue was coming from. The biggest problem with deep routes in my view is twofold.... A) we didnt have QBs who were good throwing long balls (outside of SB who was hurt for all of TA's career minus the first 7 games of his rookie year) and B) the OL couldn't pass protect well enough usually for those plays to develop. The passing stats of the team more than back that up with passes of 20 and 40+....they are near the bottom of the league. If it was just Austin, where is everyone else then???? Nonexistent.

 

[Mojo Ram]

So not Pead

Not for me no. Tavon was a superstar in college who was instant offense and pure excitement. Pead was a nice all around RB. Then you consider the draft cost...

As far as pure production at the NFL level so far, I can see why Pead would be #1 for some fans.

 

[tbux]

Well, think about what you're implying.

Schotty didn't know TA could run a 9 or go route, but you did.
OR
Schotty knew he could, but chose not to use him in that capacity, because Schotty doesn't like to move the ball downfield.

Meanwhile, he used the crap out of Givens as a rookie on deep patterns and it worked.

Well again, if he knew and didn't want to use him that way, again I say that is a flaw in Shotty. When you listen to that Fisher interview, and take out the coach speak stuff, you still come away with " we didn't use him as well as we could have, and will this year". Personally I think its part of the reason Shotty isn't here anymore. I still believe he was politely asked to look for other employment. Either way, lets see what happens this year. I am betting we Tavon is indeed used more and is much more effective for us. IF he isn't, I will concede its Tavon, but I just don't see it that way at all.

 

[dieterbrock]

Its been said before ad nauseum but the WR position is one where many stars took a little time to develop. Throw in the lack of starting QB and other factors and its understandable why the progress has been delayed.

 

[TheDYVKX]

The problem isn't just Tavon and it wasn't just Schotty and it wasn't just the QB situation.

Tavon needs to run better routes and learn the mental part of the game, this is agreed on by everyone. He just isn't there yet in his development. He struggles recognizing coverages and he can't get separation. He can't just get by on his athleticism anymore.

The OC needs to recognize this and make it easier on Tavon, simplify the playbook. If anything, reports said Schotty made it harder for him to pick up and it was difficult. Cignetti emphasized simplifying the playbook when he was promoted, for good reason. There's just too much for Tavon to know at this point, so he's thinking instead of playing fast.

The QB also needs to get the ball to Tavon more. Too many times I would see Hill or Davis or Clemens miss Tavon when he's wide open on crossing routes. I'm not sure what the problem is, height maybe, but if the QB can't see him, he can't get the ball no matter how open he is.

There's even more to it than all this, and I've seen most of it expressed in this thread. It's just a combination of everything.

 

[12intheBox]

I thought that was the Lindenwood WR Andrew Helmick from the year before.

That is who I was thinking of .... Sorry, TJ.

 

[DaveFan'51]

While I agree with the premise that should and will be able to throw the ball, I believe Fisher wants to duplicate the type of offense that Seattle has been so successful with.

While Seattle has a very effective passing game, they have had the least amount of passing attempts in the league since Wilson took the reigns.

I think Fisher and Cignetti will take their shots, but the running game will be first and foremost the foundation that everything works through.

CoachO, do you think fisher is trying to duplicate what Seattle is doing, or is he trying to recreate what he had with the Titan's when he met the Ram's in the SB!?!

 

[LesBaker]

"We're going to make a concerted effort to get the ball to him and create matchups, and I think we could have done a better job of that". -- Jeff Fisher.

These are things the OC is supposed to do as part of his job...

"The one thing he can do, is get behind you outside". -- Jeff Fisher

Notice he didn't say can't get off the line of scrimmage, or can't because he runs bad routes......can means is fully capable of doing.

Neither of those things tells me that Tavon is lacking in route running, or the blame is on him, but rather in how he was used. Sure he can improve like every player can, but JF pretty much said where the issue was coming from. The biggest problem with deep routes in my view is twofold.... A) we didnt have QBs who were good throwing long balls (outside of SB who was hurt for all of TA's career minus the first 7 games of his rookie year) and B) the OL couldn't pass protect well enough usually for those plays to develop. The passing stats of the team more than back that up with passes of 20 and 40+....they are near the bottom of the league. If it was just Austin, where is everyone else then???? Nonexistent.

Question about his college career.......did he get run between the tackles a lot? I've only seen a couple of his college highlight films and I don't follow college ball and thinking back to the clips I saw I don't remember any highlights between the tackles.

 

[LesBaker]

The problem isn't just Tavon and it wasn't just Schotty and it wasn't just the QB situation.

Tavon needs to run better routes and learn the mental part of the game, this is agreed on by everyone. He just isn't there yet in his development. He struggles recognizing coverages and he can't get separation. He can't just get by on his athleticism anymore.

The OC needs to recognize this and make it easier on Tavon, simplify the playbook. If anything, reports said Schotty made it harder for him to pick up and it was difficult. Cignetti emphasized simplifying the playbook when he was promoted, for good reason. There's just too much for Tavon to know at this point, so he's thinking instead of playing fast.

The QB also needs to get the ball to Tavon more. Too many times I would see Hill or Davis or Clemens miss Tavon when he's wide open on crossing routes. I'm not sure what the problem is, height maybe, but if the QB can't see him, he can't get the ball no matter how open he is.

There's even more to it than all this, and I've seen most of it expressed in this thread. It's just a combination of everything.

True there are many converging drivers.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Tavon needs to run better routes and learn the mental part of the game, this is agreed on by everyone. He just isn't there yet in his development. He struggles recognizing coverages and he can't get separation. He can't just get by on his athleticism anymore.

This ^ is why I've always thought Bailey was the Better WR coming out of Virginia between the two of them. Tavon was just faster. I like them both, I just think Bailey is better!

 

[CoachO]

" we could have done a better job of that" I agree. He is basically saying we didn't use him as well as we could have. Also mentioned using him on deep routes (tell me why we never even tried to??? telling me he cant run a go route?) No I think it was BS and I think Cig will use him more and more effectively. We are going to find out this year why he hasn't done anything yet- it was BS and I for one am glad he is in GA.

With all due respect, I have watched them try to run him on "go" routes more times than I can count in training camp the past two years. And his lack of size just doesn't work in his favor when he is trying to win contested balls with a deep safety who is virtualy always sitting back there waiting for him.

Then they run the SAME route two plays later with Britt and its completed more often than not. It's one thing for Fisher to say they INTEND on doing more with Austin, but thus far, IMO, its more about what his limitations are than how they TRY to use him. He just isn't accomplished as a route runner at this level.... YET!

The best way for him to be an asset in the passing game, is to be able to develop a play action game. This forces the LBs to honor the running game, and get Austin BEHIND the LB level on mid level crossing routes. Also, this would open up the seam routes, if they over load one side of the field by lining him up along side Cook in the slot. They can attack the single high saftey, and force him to make a choice. But this will only work if Austin is capable of getting off the LOS and can beat the Nickel with a quick release.

I agree there are ways to incorporate him more, but at some point, Austin needs to be held accountable. Until he figures out how to diagnose coverages, he will continue to be invisible. Just my take on things. Its way too convenient to blame Schottenheimer.

 

[CoachO]

CoachO, do you think fisher is trying to duplicate what Seattle is doing, or is he trying to recreate what he had with the Titan's when he met the Ram's in the SB!?!

This is not the same style of team he had in Tennessee. That team had a variable that they just do not have. And that was McNair. There is no comparison to Foles and McNair.

And while the same can be said about Foles and Wilson, I just think that they are going to be more committed to STICKING with a running game, and everything they do will go thru that. By promoting Boras to be in charge of the running game, I just think they want to make it more of a priority. For all the talk about wanting to be a ball control, limit turnovers, and RUN THE BALL, they tended to be quick to abandon it under Schottenheimer. That's the biggest criticism I had with his playcalling. He tended to get frustrtated if they weren't having early success in games, and he would go completely away from it, which IMO. This had more to do with the 2nd half let downs in the past 2 years than anything else.

While I don't think they will throw the ball as infrequently as Seattle does, I do think they will aim to limit Foles to 22-25 passes per game max. The play action game will be thier biggest weapon. And yes, I do think they will take more downfield shots because of it.

 

[tbux]

nice post- I don't agree with it all, but nice post all the same. Here is my question, why do you say he cant identify coverages? Ive heard this thrown around, but players who cannot diagnose coverages usually don't make the field. So I simply don't buy that one. Route running- surely he can improve- but that is expected.

We will find out how much was Shotty this year. If he is used much more and more creatively, then we will know. Obviously a lot of all our wrs issues was playing with backup QBs. However I just didn't love the way Shotty used Tavon. One thing is for sure, a starting caliber RB and a power run game should certainly help. I think a better OC will as well.