Eagles bench Carson Wentz

[Ellard80]

Wentz has a huge contract... eagles are in a bad pickle.

 

[nighttrain]

Wentz has a huge contract... eagles are in a bad pickle.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Foles had a lights out Post season.
320+ yds per game, 73% comp, 7 TD (1 REC) to 1 INT, 116 passer rating
The idea that Wentz was just going to duplicate that despite having no playoff experience is just a joke.
Eagles dont win without Foles

Wentz (who again was having an MVP type season before he went down) didn't even have to duplicate those numbers (most of which came in that snowball Vikings game, btw). Again. The defense gave up only 17 freaking points in those two playoff games.

And again, one could argue that if not for what should have been an easy INT thrown by Foles, where a Falcons player amazingly had bounce off his knee into an Eagles WRs hands (led to a FG), it may have only been 14 points allowed. BTW, minus that play, it's possible that the Falcons could have only had to kick a FG to win instead of having to score a TD when they got stopped in the redzone by that defense at the end of the game. Then all of this hero worship for a guy who had done absolutely nothing outside of Philly wouldn't even exist.

To me the joke is giving the QB too much credit in a TEAM sport.

 

[dieterbrock]

Wentz to Indy makes a ton of sense.

The relationship in Philly is probably toast. So... what are the options? Indy is definitely one way out.

At some point this may be a thing. Who will be the Colts QB in 2021?
Rivers and Brissett both likely out, both contracts expired.
Wentz? Well, although its possible, do they really want to take on that much of a hit financially?
Darnold- had been the talk prior to Wentz benching, buy low and maybe Reich coaches him up?
Eason- Allegedly, Eason had been a pleasant surprise and there was talk of him getting P/T when Rivers was struggling. Have they seen enough?
Ryan/Stafford- does new HC want to start fresh? Indy looking for that vet QB who can take over the turn key operation?
And then there is Andrew Luck... Healthy now. Indy has great o-line, he still lives in Indy, only 31.....

 

[dieterbrock]

Wentz (who again was having an MVP type season before he went down) didn't even have to duplicate those numbers (most of which came in that snowball Vikings game, btw). Again. The defense gave up only 17 freaking points in those two playoff games.

And again, one could argue that if not for what should have been an easy INT thrown by Foles, where a Falcons player amazingly had bounce off his knee into an Eagles WRs hands (led to a FG), it may have only been 14 points allowed. BTW, minus that play, it's possible that the Falcons could have only had to kick a FG to win instead of having to score a TD when they got stopped in the redzone by that defense at the end of the game. Then all of this hero worship for a guy who had done absolutely nothing outside of Philly wouldn't even exist.

How many turnovers did Foles have in the Atlanta game? And how close was the game? Its amazing how quickly its forgotten how well a QB could play, and you're going to chalk it up to luck that he wasnt picked off? Wentz fumbled 9 times in 2017, 14 times in 2016. 21 INT in his first 29 games. He's been a turnover since. But he was going to remarkably play a clean game like Foles in his first ever playoff game? Cmon...
Snowball game? Good grief...

To me the joke is giving the QB too much credit in a TEAM sport.

Then why are you doing so for Wentz?

 

[Faceplant]

The same Wentz that absolutely torched us to the tune of four TDs couldn't have matched was Foles did in that Super Bowl? Yea I strongly disagree.

Yeah, I know ya do...that fits your narrative bro. We get it. You support Goff.....but not really. ;-)

 

[Faceplant]

Without him, that team doesn't make it to the Superbowl.

Fine, but I'd bet dollars to donuts they don't win that game with Wentz at the helm...or even get through the playoffs with him for that matter. Just my .02

 

[Loyal]

Why is there a question about the unknowable? We know Nick Foles led the Iggles to Championship. We know that Wentz has never accomplished that. Just as a small course correction can massively change destinations, changing QB's does the same things.
Variables:
A = How Carson Plays and Reacts under certain conditions
B = How Foles Plays and Reacts under certain conditions
C = How Pedersen's Game plan changes with each QB
D = How Opposing Teams Gameplan each QB
E = Unexpected events

BC - D + E = Super Bowl Win
AC + or - D + or - E = Unknowable

 

[Memphis Ram]

How many turnovers did Foles have in the Atlanta game? And how close was the game? Its amazing how quickly its forgotten how well a QB could play, and you're going to chalk it up to luck that he wasnt picked off? Wentz fumbled 9 times in 2017, 14 times in 2016. 21 INT in his first 29 games. He's been a turnover since. But he was going to remarkably play a clean game like Foles in his first ever playoff game? Cmon...
Snowball game? Good grief...

Then why are you doing so for Wentz?

Oh please, Wentz fumbled 9 times and lost 4 during 13 regular season games that year. Foles fumbled 6 times and lost 2 during that same season in only 7 games. And he only played 2 FULL regular season games. Not only that, he even fumbled twice in the first playoff game vs. the Falcons.

And yes, that game vs. the Vikings snowballed out of control. You've seen games like this before. The Eagles (whose first score came on a pick 6 by the defense) strip sacked Keenum just outside the redzone as they were attempting to tie the game at 14 and the snowball kept rolling from there.

Finally, I've not given Wentz too much credit. I'm the one pointing out how well the TEAM played, including Wentz. Remember??? Something I don't recall YOU mentioning even once while you've done your best to give Foles all the credit for the TEAM's success.

 

[dieterbrock]

Finally, I've not given Wentz too much credit. I'm the one pointing out how well the TEAM played, including Wentz. Remember??? Something I don't recall YOU mentioning even once while you've done your best to give Foles all the credit for the TEAM's success.

Thats a total lie and that type of strawman post is way beneath a poster of your stature. Get a grip man, you understand completely that this discussion is giving Foles credit for winning games that Wentz did not. I never put him in front of the team, I put him in front of Wentz.
If you care to have a discussion like a normal person, fine. If you just want to troll, then go back to the Post Dispatch
Point is, and was Wentz is and was a fumble machine and a turnover machine. Anyone who's watched a minute of football knows how QB's, particularly 2nd year players, struggle in their first playoff game(s). Assuming Wentz would have played a mistake free game like Foles did against Atlanta is just laughable

 

[Ellard80]

The same Wentz that absolutely torched us to the tune of four TDs couldn't have matched was Foles did in that Super Bowl? Yea I strongly disagree.

That game against us was like the last good game Wentz ever had...

Foles like to throw the deep jump ball.. so him and Alshon Jeffery had a thing.... thats why it worked with Foles.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Thats a total lie and that type of strawman post is way beneath a poster of your stature. Get a grip man, you understand completely that this discussion is giving Foles credit for winning games that Wentz did not. I never put him in front of the team, I put him in front of Wentz.
If you care to have a discussion like a normal person, fine. If you just want to troll, then go back to the Post Dispatch
Point is, and was Wentz is and was a fumble machine and a turnover machine. Anyone who's watched a minute of football knows how QB's, particularly 2nd year players, struggle in their first playoff game(s). Assuming Wentz would have played a mistake free game like Foles did against Atlanta is just laughable

A total lie and a strawman post? I'm trolling now?

I rarely post here nowadays (or anywhere for that matter) and only planned to point out the Eagles current situation and be done. You quoted and replied to me. Remember? So I'm respond trolling now??

And I've merely countered your skewed arguments with mostly facts. But, though I still can't find it, my apologies, if you pointed out the TEAM anywhere in our exchange.

But, again, Foles fumbled twice vs. the Falcons. And he should have been picked, if not for a clumsy INT attempt by a Falcons defender. One that bounced off the defenders knee to an Eagles WR and led to 3 points and possibly the game. What's REALLY laughable is one believing that represents mistake free football!?! Or believing without a shadow of doubt that Wentz couldn't have continued his magical 2017 season with those same victories. ESPECIALLY as well as that loaded defense had played.

Quite frankly, I'd hope that there would never be a discussion regarding any QB receiving credit for winning games vs. another in a TEAM sport with little to no regard for the rest of the TEAM. It's foolishness, IMO. But, here we are, I guess.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That game against us was like the last good game Wentz ever had...

Foles like to throw the deep jump ball.. so him and Alshon Jeffery had a thing.... thats why it worked with Foles.

I noticed the Eagles did well getting pass interference penalties doing just that, too. Makes me wonder why other teams don't try it more on 3rd and long.

 

[dieterbrock]

I rarely post here nowadays (or anywhere for that matter) and only planned to point out the Eagles current situation and be done. You quoted and replied to me. Remember? So I'm respond trolling now??

Well if this is the type of garbage you now spew, then I hope you go back to non posting.
Good riddance & good luck with your pal Wentz

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well if this is the type of garbage you now spew, then I hope you go back to non posting.
Good riddance & good luck with your pal Wentz

My pal Wentz? Posting garbage?

Counter a skewed argument and boom. Some thing never change.

 

[TXRams86]

Arguing what Wentz could have done is just a waste of time, honestly. @Loyal summed it up perfectly. We know Foles won the Eagles a Super Bowl. Every variable that involves Wentz at the helm is an unknown and pure speculation. You can’t use past successes to guarantee future successes. Why some people continue arguing this is beyond me?

 

[Memphis Ram]

Arguing what Wentz could have done is just a waste of time, honestly. @Loyal summed it up perfectly. We know Foles won the Eagles a Super Bowl. Every variable that involves Wentz at the helm is an unknown and pure speculation. You can’t use past successes to guarantee future successes. Why some people continue arguing this is beyond me?

I agree and disagree.

No one really knows what Wentz would have done had he stayed healthy that season. I'm just countering one who seems to have disregarded this and has automatically assumed that the team wouldn't have had the same success that year with him.

With that, I disagree that Foles won the Eagles a Super Bowl. The Eagles team won a Super Bowl. And Foles is a part of that team. So was Wentz who helped them get that 1st round bye.

I expect the backlash though. I got the same years ago pointing out how the team and not Kurt Warner won the Championship.

 

[TXRams86]

I agree and disagree.

No one really knows what Wentz would have done had he stayed healthy that season. I'm just countering one who seems to have disregarded this and has automatically assumed that the team wouldn't have had the same success that year with him.

With that, I disagree that Foles won the Eagles a Super Bowl. The Eagles team won a Super Bowl. And Foles is a part of that team. So was Wentz who helped them get that 1st round bye.

I expect the backlash though. I got the same years ago pointing out how the team and not Kurt Warner won the Championship.

I get where you’re coming from. Wentz contributed to the run in the regular season and there’s no denying that. However, when you speak of Super Bowl winning quarterbacks no one is going to mention Wentz in that breath today. The post season is an entirely different beast and you can ask last years regular season MVP for confirmation.

Wentz was part of the team and as such has a ring but he didn’t win it as he was absent from the team during that run. It’s all going to be a bunch of “what if” and “could have been” which is purely speculation. None of us will ever know but what we do know NOW is that he isn’t that quarterback TODAY - all factors considered. Can he rebound? Only time will tell.

 

[dieterbrock]

Wentz was part of the team and as such has a ring but he didn’t win it as he was absent from the team during that run. It’s all going to be a bunch of “what if” and “could have been” which is purely speculation. None of us will ever know but what we do know NOW is that he isn’t that quarterback TODAY - all factors considered. Can he rebound? Only time will tell.

Yeah, Wentz is now a member of the "Tony Banks got a Super Bowl ring too" club

 

[FrantikRam]

Yeah, I know ya do...that fits your narrative bro. We get it. You support Goff.....but not really. ;-)

No narrative here. There's different levels of opinions regarding Goff here; being critical of his play does not mean I don't support him.

What's truly crazy to me is that some posters here don't see how crazy hypocritical it is to slam on Wentz for this season. He has a supporting cast similar to what Goff had his rookie year, maybe even worse because of all the injuries.

Going back prior to this season, he was good. Most people - non Eagles and non Rams fans - would say that prior to this season, he was having a better career than Goff. But how about a hypothetical, just for fun?

It's 2018, and the Rams are 11-2 - Goff gets injured and is out for the season - Sean Mannion comes in. He's decent to pretty good, but clearly not Goff, for the first few games - then he catches fire in the NFCCG and wins the Super Bowl.

Goff is out the first game or two the following season, and has a slow start. But he gets it going and ends up with his best season statistically - a passer rating of 102.1. His record ends up being 5-6, but he gets sacked almost three times per game. He gets hurt after starting those 11 games and misses the rest of the season. Mannion comes in and wins out, and wins a playoff game before narrowly faltering to the Saints.

After this season, we ship Mannion out - and Goff, with an aging roster around him, goes 9-7 and wins the division - against posting a strong season statistically: 4000 yards, 27 TDs and 7 INTs, but has a bad playoff game.

So for three seasons, Goffs overall numbers look like this:

Games played: 40/48 regular season, 1/6 playoff games

10,400 yards, 81 TDs, 21 INTs, sacked 96 times, 34 fumbles





So, if Goff averaged 3467 yards, 27 TDs and 7 INTs while being sacked 96 times over three seasons, I'd imagine most Rams fans would support him. BTW, over the same set of three seasons, Goff fumbled 30 times and threw 35 INTs.

This season Wentz has been sacked 50 times, and if you've watched many Eagles games, his supporting cast has been garbage.

Me, personally, I'm holding him to the same standard I hold Goff. Being sacked 50 times is a little excessive, but he also holds onto the ball too much. He's a below average QB overall.

But to the fans that have defended Goff for his poor play this year, with a top 5 playcaller and above average weapons? That doesn't sit right with me. If you're going to give Goff some slack, Wentz has definitely earned it with his play. You can't criticize his turnovers - he and Goff are around the same level the past four seasons. The bigger knock is his injury history, and that's valid.