Do it now or wait and see? (Foles contract)

[iced]

Evan Mathis also missed some time.

And Kelce

 

[FrantikRam]

Have to wait here.

If he plays well enough that he gets a big contract, it'll mean we had a great year and seemingly have less holes to fill (or rather, holes that can be covered up by QB play). But if he plays average, we will need that money to put better players around him or whoever plays QB next year.

 

[HometownBoy]

Have to wait here.

If he plays well enough that he gets a big contract, it'll mean we had a great year and seemingly have less holes to fill (or rather, holes that can be covered up by QB play). But if he plays average, we will need that money to put better players around him or whoever plays QB next year.

Agreed. If we pay him now and he plays pedestrian again we're in the Bradford situation all over again. Paying crucial money for some guy to be no help to the team at all.

 

[Alan]

flv having trouble with probabilities:
If he plays great in 2015 he'll hold out on that 'bad contract' until the last 6 games of 2016 and the Rams will be screwed.

Possible but highly improbable IMO flv.

I do thank that if we extend him now and it's a contract that is far below what a QB of his ability (depending on how good he looks this year and next year) we'll probably revisit his contract after or during his 2016 year. I think he needs to show consistency to gain the leverage he needs to cash in big.

 

[Ram65]

If it's 100+ Million for 5 years or near that amount I would wait.

I would like to the rookie first too. If it's 15-16-17 Million progression maybe.

 

[A55VA6]

Rams have begun long-term contract talks with QB Nick Foles (Wagoner)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...reliminary-talks-long-term-contract-extension

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- Although quarterback Nick Foles hasn't played a single snap in a regular-season game for the St. Louis Rams, the team apparently already has plans to make sure that once he does, he'll continue to do so for a long time.

Rams coach Jeff Fisher said Tuesday that the team has begun preliminary talks with Foles and his agent, David Dunn, on a long-term contract extension.

"We've had some discussions," Fisher said. "I think what Nick has done early in his career, he has proven that he can get the job done on the field. He's carried things on here so we are going to continue to talk and see if we can get something that's good for both sides."

Philadelphia Eagles in the opening minutes of the new league year March 10. St. Louis sent quarterback Sam Bradford to Philadelphia in exchange for Foles and draft pick compensation.

Since, Foles' work with his new team has been limited to the offseason conditioning program and organized team activities, which are expected to end on Thursday.

For his part, Foles said that he's felt comfortable in St. Louis almost from the moment he arrived in the city and wouldn't mind coming to a common ground with the Rams.

"This is where I want to play," Foles said. "As a player, you want to be somewhere you want to play the rest of your career. This is where I want to be, but that's why we have agents. My most important thing right now is continuing to work with my teammates and continue to be the best player and person I can be.

"We'll see what happens but I want to be here, I love Coach Fisher and the staff. I am very fortunate to be here."

Foles is coming off an injury-plagued 2014 season in which he started eight games and threw 13 touchdowns and 10 interceptions, though the Eagles were 6-2 in those contests. That was considered a letdown after Foles went to the Pro Bowl on the heels of a 27-touchdown, two-interception performance in 2013.

Despite the disappointing encore in 2014 and the new start in St. Louis, Foles said he doesn't intend to bet on himself in 2015 and push possible contract talks off while he attempts to increase his value.

"No, whatever happens with that, I'm going to be the same person no matter what it is," Foles said. "The [money] sign is not going to change the way I play the game. I play with all my heart. It's about my teammates and building those relationships and being a player that just helps people grow. So the money sign won't change that. I want to be here and that's the most important thing."

While getting something done with Foles is on the list of the Rams' things to do, just how pressing it is remains to be seen. There's a bit of looking ahead that the team must do this year more so than others because they have 16 players set to become unrestricted free agents at the end of the season. As many as nine of those players project as possible starters.

With the possibility of relocation looming, the Rams could have an especially busy 2016 offseason, so they are prioritizing getting other pieces of business done sooner than later.

"We've already started discussions [with some players]," Fisher said. "I know they want to come back, so I feel good about it."

 

[GabesHorn]

Just because we are BEYOND Overdue for something GREAT to happen to and for OUR RAMS means this is smart to sign this seemingly great kid BEFORE he plays behind our young and hopefully progressing better and better OL. Some big decisions will still need to be made come FA'cy 2016. We can't keep them all . Anyone playing their final contract year like Barksdale did will be gone.

Next years QB class is pretty exciting in my eyes. I see 5 guys worth 1st round picks. Not all at the top end of round 1 right now. We are gonna have some very,very close games that Nick Foles will either pull us out or he will give the game away somehow. I see many VERY close games and I wanna see what Nick is really made of wearing the HORNS. History good or bad will be made this season and just what if an injury occurs? (GOD Forbid) We will have learned some super valuable stuff that I think we need before we sign Nick Foles to a longterm deal. His past is past,lets see who Nick Foles is as a RAM as I know Cigs is gonna make things feed off of what Nick does best. Count on it. We don't want to have any limitations on what we want to do. Lets see if real accuracy and leadership is there when the game is on the line. Even possibly playing with some injury. SO much to learn before I write up this contract. If he earns it then we'll pay him. No more Sam stuff again ever. We should have at least learned something from all that. Wait... Get a great deal this year like the seahags got for years with Wilson.

 

[Alan]

flv playing stacking the deck:
Leverage is comparative. How much leverage would our 20-27-1 management team have with Davis, Keenum, and Mannion as the alternatives? If he plays like a $14M+ QB and he has a C i'd advise him to skip the 1st 10 games. Then again I don't see why he'd sign such a contract in the 1st place. Even if this is another bad year for him someone will still see him as a $2.5M back-up.

As usual, I have a couple of comments.

$6.5M contract? Are you saying that he'd be foolish enough to accept a contract that small in the first place?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470843/article/estimated-franchise-tag-figures
Here is the franchise tag amount for a QB: Quarterbacks: $18.51 million

I've no idea what others in this thread call a "team friendly" contract but $6.5M is the definition of "indentured servitude" not "team friendly."

This is my idea of a "team friendly" contract:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/andy-dalton/
Andy Dalton signed a 6 year, $96,000,000 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $12,000,000 signing bonus, $17,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $16,000,000. In 2015, Dalton will earn a base salary of $3,000,000, a roster bonus of $4,000,000 and a workout bonus of $200,000. Dalton has a cap hit of $9,600,000 while his dead money value is $13,600,000.

With only $17,000,000 in guaranteed money it isn't even close to a catastrophic hit on our resources if he busts. That's not even taking into consideration the $1.5M we already owe him which would bring the additional money down to only $15.5M.

Dalton's contract has already set a precedent and I'm all on board with something close to it for Foles. Small price to pay for a possible franchise QB IMO.

But let's put money aside for the moment and get to the reason I said your scenario of what Foles might do is so improbable. When has that happened before? Just because something can happen theoretically doesn't mean it has a snowball's chance in hell of actually happening. When was the last time anybody refused to play when they were franchised?

So yeah, it might happen but I'd be willing to bet my farm on that never happening.

Never argue with a Litchfieldian when math is on the line.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

 

[RAMSinLA]

Do it now or wait and see? (Foles contract)

I say wait but from what I've read the Rams are very impressed with what they see so far.

 

[Faceplant]

@TheTackle took the words off my keyboard. Actually, he said it better than I would have, but that is how I feel. The Rams hold all of the cards right now. Lets see if we can get a fair deal done for both parties and not have to worry about this for a couple of years. This team is ready to win now.

 

[Alan]

flv with some more math:
That's pretty much what Dalton's deal is and I've commented upon it earlier.

I know you did and that's why I quoted him so we'd be on the same page.

I read what you just wrote and it's certainly a possibility and I don't discount your reservations or fears but I do think you're looking at the math differently than I am. What I'm focusing on is the guaranteed money because that's all we're really on the hook for if we have to bail on him.

Dalton is only a $9.6 million cap hit this year and $13.1 million next year. That's a lot of money but it's not something that we won't have to find a way to pay next year if he's good. His contract averages $16 million per year but if he's an actual franchise QB that's pretty cheap. With only $17M guaranteed...I like it.

It's a gamble either way. Less money but more risk now or more money later but less risk. I'm a gambler when it's not my money.

 

[kurtfaulk]

If he earns it then we'll pay him. No more Sam stuff again ever. We should have at least learned something from all that. Wait... Get a great deal this year like the seahags got for years with Wilson.

No more sam stuff? The rams had no choice with that contract. There's nothing to learn from that except don't pick from the #1 position again.

Get a deal like Wilson? That's only happening if they strike gold in the 3rd round. Not sure mannion is gold.

.

 

[RamBill]

Rams want to extend Foles' contract
• By Jim Thomas

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/foot...cle_c6cd507d-d7db-5b88-b217-3ffe7e31bf8b.html

The Rams have engaged in preliminary discussions with the agent for quarterback Nick Foles about a contract extension. Where they lead, who knows.

After all, it was last year at about this time that the Rams talked about extending Sam Bradford, and you saw where that ended up — in Philadelphia for Bradford. But apparently the Rams are confident enough in Foles to at least broach the subject of an extension before he has played a single game for the team.

“We’ve had some discussions,” coach Jeff Fisher said following Tuesday’s practice at Rams Park. “I think what Nick has done early in his career, he’s proven that he can get the job done on the field.

“With the numbers that he put at the end with Andy (Reid) ... it was very impressive. He’s carried things on here, and so we’re going to continue to talk and see if we can get something that’s good for both sides.”

Be that as it may, it’s a pretty small sample size in terms of judging Foles’ worth. He has 24 career starts in three NFL seasons with 893 career attempts. In games started and attempts, that’s the equivalent of about 1½ seasons of NFL experience.

Is Foles the player who made the Pro Bowl after the 2013 season with a 119.2 passer rating based on 27 touchdown passes and just two interceptions? The guy who dropped to an 81.4 passer rating last season on just 13 TDs with 10 INTs while missing eight games due to injury? Or somewhere in between?

“This is where I want to play,” Foles said Tuesday. “As a player, you want to be somewhere and you want to play there the rest of your career. So this is where I want to be, but that’s why we have agents.”

As many have said before him, Foles will let his agent (David Dunn) take care of the negotiating. Foles has a lot of other things on his plate at the moment.

“My most important thing right now is just to continue to work with my teammates and continue to be the best player and person I can be,” Foles said. “We’ll see what happens. I love Coach Fisher and the staff and everybody in this building. I’m very fortunate to be here.”

In a trade that also involved an exchange of draft picks, Foles was traded to St. Louis from Philadelphia for Bradford last March. The trade was a telling example of how fast the landscape can shift in the NFL. Instead of a contract extension for Bradford, he was shipped off because he refused to take what would have been a severe pay cut.

As is the case in NFL trades, the Rams inherited Foles’ Philadelphia contract — a contract that expires after the 2015 season. In such situations, players frequently choose to play out the season before agreeing on a new contract, gambling that they can increase their market value with a big season.

Apparently Foles doesn’t feel that way.

“Whatever happens with that, happens,” Foles said. “I’m gonna be the same person no matter what it is. The number sign is not going to change the way I play the game. ... I want to be here and that’s the most important thing.”

A Foles extension may be a priority for the Rams, but it’s only the top of a very long list for executive vice president Kevin Demoff. Partly as a byproduct of amassing picks in the so-called RGIII trade in 2012 (and several spinoff moves), the Rams have a ton of players whose contracts expire following the 2015 season.

The list of prospective free agents includes six players who are projected starters this season. On offense: Foles, fullback/tight end Cory Harkey, and wide receiver Brian Quick. On defense: cornerbacks Janoris Jenkins and Trumaine Johnson, and free safety Rodney McLeod. (Although Johnson could be pushed by E.J. Gaines for a starting job.)

There’s lots of key rotation players scheduled for unrestricted free agency after this season as well, including defensive ends William Hayes and Eugene Sims, defensive tackle Nick Fairley, and linebacker Jo-Lonn Dunbar.

Place-kicker Greg Zuerlein is scheduled to hit the market after 2015, as well as safety Mark Barron, backup quarterbacks Case Keenum and Austin Davis, and wide receiver Chris Givens.

Despite exercising the fifth-year option on defensive tackle Michael Brockers for 2016, the Rams are exploring the possibility of extending his deal long term like they did with defensive end Robert Quinn early in the 2014 season.

“I’m definitely hopeful I get a long-term deal,” Brockers said. “Being here with Fisher, I love the team. Everybody wants to stay with their one team for their whole career. I know it’s a business, but at the same time I would love to stay here in St. Louis and be with the guys.”

All in all, it’s a much, much larger group of prospective free agents than Demoff has had to deal with in the past. If the Rams can’t sign the bulk of those players, it will be a setback to the rebuilding task undertaken by Fisher and general manager Les Snead in 2012.

But Demoff has planned for this moment. The Rams are scheduled to have about $60 million of salary cap room for their 2016 payroll, among the most cap space of anyone in the league.

They currently have $9.24 million of 2015 cap space, a figure that doesn’t include the Rams’ 2015 draft class. When those draft class numbers come in, the Rams should still have over $6 million in room this year, which should give them a little flexibility over the coming months when it comes to all those players they want to re-sign.

 

[Riverumbbq]

What's the hurry ?

I wouldn't want to get too serious about re-signing Foles until the Bye rolls around. We'll have a much better opinion on how well he performs under adverse conditions being those first 5 games may be against the stiffest competition of the season, that and he'll be working with 3 newbies on the O-Line, a new system & OC, and perhaps a less than 100% # 1 RB & #1 WR. If we still like what we see, sign him. If he falls apart, give it a wait & see.
I actually see the Rams with the leverage here, where Foles is in the position to control his fate through good performance, he's the one with the immediate burden to prove himself, ... the Rams are not short of options, however it goes.
The Rams may have about 24 or 25 currently scheduled free agents for next season, but 10 of them are RFA's. We also will have somewhere north of $50.mil in available CAP to re-sign who we want, and this doesn't count the potential additional savings from extending Chris Long & Jared Cook, two guys who are highly likely to become CAP casualties if they don't restructure. The savings from a C.Long/Cook extension alone would probably pay for Foles renegotiated 2016 salary & CAP hit if it's decided to retain his services.
At worst, should Foles be allowed to walk as a free agent, the Rams will face the 2016 draft with a 1'st round and two 2'nd round picks, plenty enough, if necessary, to move up for what looks like a very good draft year for QB's. Of course, should Foles tank, we will probably receive a pretty high draft pick anyway, ... and if he performs well, we'll pay him and he will be our future.

I just don't see a reason to rush contract negotiations quite yet, he isn't going anywhere for awhile. jmo.

 

[TheTackle]

I know you did and that's why I quoted him so we'd be on the same page.

I read what you just wrote and it's certainly a possibility and I don't discount your reservations or fears but I do think you're looking at the math differently than I am. What I'm focusing on is the guaranteed money because that's all we're really on the hook for if we have to bail on him

Exactly... I cannot understand how this is so difficult to understand. Can we win consistently with Foles and a strong running game? All indications over the last two seasons are yes. Sign him now for reasonable money or risk having no QB going into 2016? Foles might be a reasonable guy, but put yourself in his shoes, would you like some commitment from the team and get paid as a starting NFL caliber QB?

We have plenty of leverage now, while Foles has relatively little, as he has to play well this season to get paid well next, which means full participation and a clear focus. However, once his contract expires, Foles has all the leverage, short of the Franchise tag, which would be a disaster for our cap

Having read some of the comments here, it confirms again that the team are being well managed, because they are doing exactly what they should be doing (unlike years gone past) and signing their own good players to reasonable long term deals. The QB position is too important to risk being outbid in FA and Foles would be the best QB to hit FA since Brees

 

[drasconis]

Why do you put the line at the first ten games? Is there a mjor factor at that point that changes it? Thanks

 

[TheTackle]

What's the hurry ?

I wouldn't want to get too serious about re-signing Foles until the Bye rolls around. We'll have a much better opinion on how well he performs under adverse conditions being those first 5 games may be against the stiffest competition of the season

The Rams will face the 2016 draft with a 1'st round and two 2'nd round picks, plenty enough, if necessary, to move up for what looks like a very good draft year for QB's. Of course, should Foles tank, we will probably receive a pretty high draft pick anyway, ... and if he performs well, we'll pay him and he will be our future.

I just don't see a reason to rush contract negotiations quite yet, he isn't going anywhere for awhile. jmo.

You make some excellent points, and I would like to know the CAP implications of signing him after the season has started, as I would think that it would also benefit the team this year and next, if part of the hit is commuted to 2016

You point about the QBs in the 2016 draft may well be true, but we would be far better of with Foles on board, even if we do decide we should trade up for one... it is a long way to go to the draft and I would not start betting our future on us getting 'the' QB highest on our board come May 2016