Deshaun Watson wants to be traded. Bears?

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Allen2McVay

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What could Chicago offer Houston?

They have the 20th and 52nd overall picks. If they get Watson, the Bears’ #1s over the next couple years figure to be in the mid-20s, at best.

So then you focus on top-young talent. Most of the Bears’ talent does not fall into that category.

Chicago does not seem like a good fit as a trade partner ... from the Texans point-of-view.
 

PARAM

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I'm not anti-Watson. In fact, from everything I've read about the kid, he's a good guy. I guess I'm just tired of hearing "I want a say" from different players, usually quarterbacks. Truthfully, they really aren't qualified to have a say. They know nothing of managing the cap. They know nothing of negotiations because they have an agent do it for them. Should they have a say in the offense or defense (if they're a key franchise player on that side of the ball)? Sure.

So Houston told him they would ask him his opinion and didn't and he's obviously not thrilled about the GM or HC. Okay, fine, he wants out. Nothing wrong with that. I get it. So waive your no trade clause. Or play hardball but that could be risky if the Texans really want to be assholes. I guess the question is how bad do you want out? Do you want out in order to go to a team with a chance at the Superbowl or do you just want out.

I'm sure they'll trade him somewhere. Will it be to a team he wants to join? Or will they play Helen Keller and not listen to offers or speak to teams who have an interest. And for how long? If they drag it on enough and quarterbacks start moving he may end up in a less desirable place than he wants. If you want out bad enough, roll the dice. Waive the no trade clause and let one of those good teams who want you make a deal.

I'm not upset about him wanting out and I shouldn't be upset because he wants a say, since they went to him. Wilson is another issue. He wants a say. As far as "this new generation ain't taking it anymore", there have been guys in the past want new contracts long before they've run out, forced moves to other teams so that's nothing new. Unfortunately for players, they are the commodity and not the industry.

As far as Watson "taking the guaranteed money" rather than risking injury, that's understandable. But if he was already upset they let DHop go, why didn't he just play out the last 2 years of his deal. Right injury fears. Instead he signs a 4 year extension tying him to the Texans through 2025. That's a long time to commit to a team you're unhappy with already. I guess his agent told him, "sign it. You can always force a trade if things head south".
 
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kurtfaulk

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Dak Prescott is another answer. He played betting on himself and sustained a leg injury and was out for most of the season.

i don't think dak is a good example.

he made $30m last season and played a few games before he a got an injury that won't affect his long term health.

he's living the dream. if the cowboys franchise tag him again they will be paying him $37m. if he goes on the market he will rake it in.

.
 

dieterbrock

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I agree with everything you said but at the same time Watson knew that the Texans fo was garbage and still choose to sign the contract. The Texans aren't gonna take less just because Watson is pissed off and they shouldn't. If Watson really wanted out he would waive the no trade clause and go anywhere but houston.
Do we know for sure that he hasnt done that?
All we know right now is that he has requested a trade, he has a no trade clause and that Houston has said they arent planning on trading him.
Waiving his no trade clause? Dont see how that would help, because seemingly the teams which have the most to offer trade wise appear to be teams he would be willing to play for.
 

dieterbrock

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I guess I'm just tired of hearing "I want a say" from different players, usually quarterbacks.
Like who?
To be clear, that isnt the situation Watson is in. Frankly, thats a total mischaracterization of what is going on, and is just about the polar opposite.
The Houston GM/HC sitch was a total disaster, and when they cleaned house they committed to Watson he'd be involved in the process. Of course he should be, what team wouldnt? Nobody is saying he'd have final say, authority to veto or any majority position, just to be included in the decision making process.
Yes Watson has a contract, but he is not an indentured servant.
He was completely disrespected by the franchise and I give him a lot of respect for standing up. They dont have to trade him and he is taking a financial risk in taking this stand.
 

Giles

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Do we know for sure that he hasnt done that?
All we know right now is that he has requested a trade, he has a no trade clause and that Houston has said they arent planning on trading him.
Waiving his no trade clause? Dont see how that would help, because seemingly the teams which have the most to offer trade wise appear to be teams he would be willing to play for.
We dont know if he did or didn't. I can only go by what's been reported. But if he's trying to dictate where he's gonna end up then he's fighting a losing battle because Houston would be stupid to not take a kings ransom for him.
 

Giles

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Like who?
To be clear, that isnt the situation Watson is in. Frankly, thats a total mischaracterization of what is going on, and is just about the polar opposite.
The Houston GM/HC sitch was a total disaster, and when they cleaned house they committed to Watson he'd be involved in the process. Of course he should be, what team wouldnt? Nobody is saying he'd have final say, authority to veto or any majority position, just to be included in the decision making process.
Yes Watson has a contract, but he is not an indentured servant.
He was completely disrespected by the franchise and I give him a lot of respect for standing up. They dont have to trade him and he is taking a financial risk in taking this stand.
My only problem with that thinking is even if they "involved" him in the process the owner has the final say and can easily ignore anything Watson says. That would be even worse imo.
 

dieterbrock

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My only problem with that thinking is even if they "involved" him in the process the owner has the final say and can easily ignore anything Watson says. That would be even worse imo.
That's heresay. Involving him in the process doesnt mean they even ask his input, it just means he's involved. They hired an independent firm to handle the vetting and interviewing, that wouldnt have changed.
They flat out patronized, lied and disrespected him. I really dont see how it can be seen in any other way
 

dieterbrock

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We dont know if he did or didn't. I can only go by what's been reported. But if he's trying to dictate where he's gonna end up then he's fighting a losing battle because Houston would be stupid to not take a kings ransom for him.
He's not doing that though. People are making outlandish assumptions. Houston has said repeatedly that they arent interested in trading him. Period, stop. The "reports" are nothing more than character assassination type stuff. Watson is dictating that he wants out of Houston, that's it. Houston doesnt need him to waive his no trade clause, they can prepare to trade him to whoever they want. Only then can Watson veto or block the trade, and exercise his clause. That is when Watson could be criticized for "trying to dictate" where he wants to go. But if Houston wont even return calls? Cant put that on Watson
 

Mackeyser

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I agree with everything you said but at the same time Watson knew that the Texans fo was garbage and still choose to sign the contract. The Texans aren't gonna take less just because Watson is pissed off and they shouldn't. If Watson really wanted out he would waive the no trade clause and go anywhere but houston.

I think ultimately, he'll do just that.

The point is to ensure that at the very least, he can have some say which is important considering that he'll still have years on the contract and especially with the Houston FO, I would want final say, also. At the very least, the Houston FO in recent years haven't proven to be either shrewd or practical in their dealings. I've not read anything that stipulates that Watson or his people would attempt to engineer a trade which would net the Texans any less than they'd receive in an open bidding war and for a number of reasons, they may except less than a max bid (say, if Indy had put in the max bid prior to getting Wentz). As well, a max bid can be seen as "max" based on a number of factors.

I can't stress enough, tho, that signing the contract isn't anymore the express intention to make it like a marriage...which is another form of exclusive contract...or supposed to be at least.

You sign the contract now in order to ensure guaranteed monies. If contracts were guaranteed like in baseball, perhaps the dynamic would be different.

Look at the uncertainty affecting Dak Prescott. He played on a tender and was injured. If he'd suffered a career ending injury, he'd personally be out something like $30M before taxes if not more even considering an injury settlement.

Earl Thomas certainly lost out as well.

While some players do well "betting on themselves", that's what it is... a gamble... and in such a violent sport, the odds favor the owners.

Teams don't ignore injuries as they shouldn't which is why players seek guaranteed monies in a violent game as befits looking out for their specific monetary interests.
 

Mackeyser

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i don't think dak is a good example.

he made $30m last season and played a few games before he a got an injury that won't affect his long term health.

he's living the dream. if the cowboys franchise tag him again they will be paying him $37m. if he goes on the market he will rake it in.

.

Wait.

This is a post hoc fallacy (post hoc ergo propter hoc) which basically translates to "after this, therfore because of this"

You're arguing that Dak Prescott is not a good example BECAUSE his injury should not affect his long term health, specifically his ability to play at a high level.

The problem is that the injury itself was a gamble and the nature of the injury was also a gamble.

Had he suffered a severe right hand injury to his thumb which prevented him from gripping a ball, his career would be over.

Would he still be "living the dream" then?

the entire point of searching for guaranteed money is to mitigate this risk. Players go all in by virtue of venturing out on the field. While we say generally that tomorrow is not promised to anyone, a more applicable truism would be that "the next play is guaranteed to no one"

Look at Willis MacGahee. Severely injured in his last game as a Miami Hurricane, the very promise of his career was denied him because he played. He was drafted, but never was the same player after that injury. It was just after this that players essentially guaranteed to be taken in the top 10 have tended to not play any further than what is needed to ensure they are chosen high in the first round of the NFL draft.

I don't begrudge players seeking to get everything they've earned and more. After all, I'm not risking CTE watching the game, I don't have to live the rest of my life with chronic issues. I don't have to have dealth with multiple surgeries, recoveries or the difficulties associated with immediate pain mitigation. I also don't have to reorient my thinking to an entirely new way of life after the game is over. It is akin to leaving the military in process and protocols. That's a lot for anyone.

As fans, we'd love it to be as simple as "sign and play" and then to have our distraction be as distracting as possible. Life's always more complicated than that and pure distraction only tends to come chemically or in isolation and neither ends up being healthy.

This will continue until we have RoboBall at which point, we'll argue licensing various robot IPs, schematics, AIs, and should we live that long, complain bitterly about how the game is fixed and BS and it was better when humans played it...

And so it goes...
 

dieterbrock

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Look at the uncertainty affecting Dak Prescott. He played on a tender and was injured. If he'd suffered a career ending injury, he'd personally be out something like $30M before taxes if not more even considering an injury settlement.
And LeVeon Bell, not due to injury, but he bet on himself and lost big time.
 

PARAM

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While some players do well "betting on themselves", that's what it is... a gamble... and in such a violent sport, the odds favor the owners.

Teams don't ignore injuries as they shouldn't which is why players seek guaranteed monies in a violent game as befits looking out for their specific monetary interests.

Excellent discussion.

CTE, debilatating limb injuries, back injuries.....all good reason to get as much money as you can to play this violent game.

And then there are the rule changes, some of which piss off fans who aren't risking any of those issues. Can't hit the QB, except in that "strike zone" from the shoulders to just below the waist. No blocking wedge. No momentum for onside kicks. Defenseless player. Etc. All designed to lessen injuries.

As far as "odds favor the owners", sure because they don't play. They make the real money. Lots of it, but still when they sign a player to a multi-year deal and he is injured and unable to produce like he had previously, they are out a considerable amount of money, (see Gurley) and fans of other teams might say, "well that's the risk you took giving him all that guaranteed money" or "you paid him before you should have" (see Cooks, Gurley and Goff).

Reality is, it's a violent game with inherent physical risks that could affect a player for life. Previous to 2011, some of these players (a small percentage) were paid huge sums of money for what they "might become". Now they're paid much less until they've proven themselves. The result is less risk on ownership as the failures don't cost them nearly as much. But it also gives young players less money to bank should they get injured badly. And most fans were "on board" with that change because without it, their favorite team could be set back many years by that failure, potentially as long as a decade. Back then, even the 2nd and 3rd round selections got paid more than they do now, coming into the league. That old pay scale for incoming players would go a long way towards protecting their future in the event of serious injury. But even the players association was on board with that change. So I ask, those fans who are on board with Watson (or other players), where did you come down on that rookie cap?

It's screwed up to some degree. We, as fans (some? many? most?), love the big hits, the physicality of the game yet we want to have it both ways? The owners are all rich, so sure, they can afford it. Yet when someone signs a contract with a lot of guaranteed money, then demands a trade for whatever reason, it's the NFL without that rookie cap again....teams potentially going under for a few years because of that dead money. Could a different structure with respect to guaranteed money alleviate that issue and make it easier for a player to move? In other words, if a player's bonus which is prorated over the life of deal, could be transferred to the team who obtains him make that an easier event? I would think there would be problems with that too, for sure. That could lower a team's desire to obtain said disgruntled player.

"Get all you can get, but prove yourself first". That goes back to the "you knew how dangerous playing this game was going to be, so why are you whining?" Seems *sometimes* players (and fans) want it both ways.
 

Merlin

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What could Chicago offer Houston?

They have the 20th and 52nd overall picks. If they get Watson, the Bears’ #1s over the next couple years figure to be in the mid-20s, at best.

So then you focus on top-young talent. Most of the Bears’ talent does not fall into that category.

Chicago does not seem like a good fit as a trade partner ... from the Texans point-of-view.
I do think Houston moves Watson this year. This is a good draft. They'll get at least two maybe three picks in round 1 for him and if it's not three early round picks there will be some round 2 thrown in. Sitting on him only makes the team worse and builds resentment with him the other players and the fan base.

When they move him the NFC will be the destination. No way they move him to any AFC team.

The Bears sound desperate which is a requirement to do this IMO. By that I mean (hope perhaps is more accurate lol) that some teams like SF for example really values their picks and are less likely to offer the all-in type of trade Houston is looking for. Bears want to win and it would be a great move for them simply because they'll probably fuck the picks up anyway. But I agree with you that they look unlikely as a trade option.

The wildcard here is Watson and what he'll accept. IMO the team's current stance was brought about to soften Watson's list of acceptable teams so they can deal him for the desired windfall of picks.
 

Merlin

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Honestly if I'm Jerry Jones I think I package Dak and picks for Watson. Dallas would be a great destination for him.
 

dieterbrock

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Honestly if I'm Jerry Jones I think I package Dak and picks for Watson. Dallas would be a great destination for him.
Dak is a FA though, cant trade him unless he's under contract.
 

Legatron4

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My thoughts on this?

Watson is most likely going to end up in a very similar situation that he finds himself in now. I don’t believe giving up everything for one player has ever resulted in a Super Bowl. 2-4 draft picks plus two young defensive players and now Watson has to do it all himself again. Unless it’s a straight up player for player trade, I don’t see why he would accept that.