Deal in Place to Trade Jason Smith

[Angry Ram]

Yeah well, @ least Hunter knows the system.

So now we got Barry Richardson backed up by Wayne Hunter.

Hoozah.

 

[MTRamsFan]

Here are somee comments from Jets fans regarding the trade:

LongTimeJetsFan: "I guess the Rams are the new Browns collecting shitty ex jets."

Axel3419: "lol oh Schotty... thanks for collecting our trash. He only let up 2 sacks in the ENTIRETY of last season. Hallelujah! "

The Dark Knight: "Who cares who the Jets got, WAYNE HUNTER IS GONE!!!!"

Aero: "On a pointless note, I just realized that the Jets now have 3 of the top 11 picks in the 2009 draft on their roster right now."

REVISion: "We could have gotten one of Schotty's turds in return for Hunter and I'd still be happy about this trade."

Brunell's Debt: "Smith sucks, but we just watched Wayne Hunter get dominated by the Panthers fucking backups last night. We could trade Hunter for my 300 pound cousin and it would be an upgrade. I feel bad for Rams fans. "

 

[ScotsRam]

Hunter has a terrible reputation for two reasons- 1, he's shite, and 2, he plays in NY. If Smith had been drafted no 2. Overall by the Jets and had been as disappointing as he has, he'd have been run out of town by now too. The only difference in these two players is that more people know Hunter sucks.

 

[Speeps]

Hunter has a terrible reputation for two reasons- 1, he's shite, and 2, he plays in NY. If Smith had been drafted no 2. Overall by the Jets and had been as disappointing as he has, he'd have been run out of town by now too. The only difference in these two players is that more people know Hunter sucks.

I agree with that. The NY media and fan bases, in particular the Jets, are much more ruthless than the Rams.

Change of scenery can do wonders for both men, or one...or none. Only time will tell.

 

[libertadrocks]

I would just add this.

The Rams and Jets have asymmetrical levels of information in this deal. The Rams know a lot more about Hunter than the Jets know about Smith. One would have to assume we are the winners in this trade, until something suggests otherwise. Schotty has seen their performance day in and day out and their attitudes. Plus we save money

 

[abyzmul]

Hi there Rams faithful, Jets fan here. I just wanted to log on and swap some info on this trade, although I won't post and bail, as I like to get different perspective on the game from other fan bases.

So, here is my straight dirt on Wayne Hunter, affectionately known as WFH to Jets fans, and you can use your imagination as to what the F stands for.

Hunter stood out as the swing tackle (or 'sixth man', if you prefer) in a strange hybrid offense during the Jets' 2009 season, and was able to sub for Damien Woody in a decent capacity during that season as well. Mainly a role player.

In 2010 he played the same role, although he was called upon in the playoffs to once again take over at right tackle when Woody was injured, and did a decent job. In both of these cases, Hunter was helped with another swing man, backup OL Rob Turner.

In 2011, Woody was shown the door in favor of Hunter. This turned out with mainly disappointing results, as Hunter was overwhelmed by the starting job. He did show a bit of upside at times, but for the most part he missed assignment regular, accounted for not only a large number of sacks but also pressures and had a disgustingly bad sense of timing to jump offsides. He never recovered, and got worse as the season progressed and got Mark Sanchez injured on two separate occasions after being rag-dolled by pass rushers.

Still, as much as I like to criticize his play, I held out hope that a light would go on with a new OC and OL coach and simpler blocking scheme for 2012.

What we got instead was one preseason game where I never saw a tackle play worse than Hunter did. It was against the Giants, and he was coming off of a tweaked back, but my god was he bad two weeks ago. I don't think he made a single good block, because I re-watched that game twice just to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

So my take on this is that Schotty really wants to use the swing man in your offense, because there can't be any way he would entertain the notion of starting Hunter at any point.

And if that is the case, you guys likely got the better end of this trade, although you won't find any Jets fans anywhere that will miss WFH.

Now, can anyone be kind enough to give me a bit of info on Smith? I can only glean so much from articles, and I trust fans a but more to be candid. I know some of the info about his concussion history, but less about his performance weaknesses.

 

[-X-]

Hi there Rams faithful, Jets fan here. I just wanted to log on and swap some info on this trade, although I won't post and bail, as I like to get different perspective on the game from other fan bases.

So, here is my straight dirt on Wayne Hunter, affectionately known as WFH to Jets fans, and you can use your imagination as to what the F stands for.

Hunter stood out as the swing tackle (or 'sixth man', if you prefer) in a strange hybrid offense during the Jets' 2009 season, and was able to sub for Damien Woody in a decent capacity during that season as well. Mainly a role player.

In 2010 he played the same role, although he was called upon in the playoffs to once again take over at right tackle when Woody was injured, and did a decent job. In both of these cases, Hunter was helped with another swing man, backup OL Rob Turner.

In 2011, Woody was shown the door in favor of Hunter. This turned out with mainly disappointing results, as Hunter was overwhelmed by the starting job. He did show a bit of upside at times, but for the most part he missed assignment regular, accounted for not only a large number of sacks but also pressures and had a disgustingly bad sense of timing to jump offsides. He never recovered, and got worse as the season progressed and got Mark Sanchez injured on two separate occasions after being rag-dolled by pass rushers.

Still, as much as I like to criticize his play, I held out hope that a light would go on with a new OC and OL coach and simpler blocking scheme for 2012.

What we got instead was one preseason game where I never saw a tackle play worse than Hunter did. It was against the Giants, and he was coming off of a tweaked back, but my god was he bad two weeks ago. I don't think he made a single good block, because I re-watched that game twice just to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

So my take on this is that Schotty really wants to use the swing man in your offense, because there can't be any way he would entertain the notion of starting Hunter at any point.

And if that is the case, you guys likely got the better end of this trade, although you won't find any Jets fans anywhere that will miss WFH.

Now, can anyone be kind enough to give me a bit of info on Smith? I can only glean so much from articles, and I trust fans a but more to be candid. I know some of the info about his concussion history, but less about his performance weaknesses.

I'm sure others will weigh in on Smith, but here's my take.

You know about his concussion history, so that's always going to be in the forefront of your minds there. Seemingly, it doesn't take much to knock him out of a game, and with multiples on his record, the next one could be the final nail.

Smith, like Hunter, can be a liability in pass pro sometimes; but in run blocking, you won't be disappointed. He can smoke the guy in front of him more often than not, and when he's moving down field, he's a freight train. And he DOES move down field. He was also, as you likely already know, a TE at Baylor before making the switch, and that could come in handy in those jumbo packages where you use an extra blocker/TE. I have no idea if he'd be an asset in tackle-eligible plays because they never tried that with him here.

I really don't know what to make of this trade. When the Rams switched offensive line coaches, the new one (Boudreau) immediately found some technique issues with Smith that they were working on. At the same time, it seemed like Smith was targeted for release early on this preseason. He was inexplicably (to me at least) handed the #2 role behind Barry Richardson (who isn't a world-beater either), and his contract was reworked early on that gave him a huge pay cut. He was also due enormous coin next year ($12M), but the contract could be voided if he played in 31% of the team's snaps THIS year. I don't know that they WANTED him to play in 31% of the team's snaps this year, and there's always the chance he gets dinged up and misses time, so this maybe made the trade inevitable.

In camp, both were sharing time as rented mule when Chris Long would line up on them though, so there's that too.

Smith is an enigma around these parts. He obviously has all the tools, and he's physically gifted, but his development has been stunted again and again since he came into the league. I'd like to tell you there's upside there and that the switch will turn on at some point; but then again, that's kind of what you guys were waiting on with Hunter. The key word for both, apparently, is inconsistency.

 

[Anonymous]

Now, can anyone be kind enough to give me a bit of info on Smith? I can only glean so much from articles, and I trust fans a but more to be candid. I know some of the info about his concussion history, but less about his performance weaknesses.

I waited until yesterday to follow up on the game by watching it on the NFL channel. I watched Richardson and J Smith very closely.

I had been hearing some (limited) good things about Richardson and he did have some good early blocks in the run game.

But, he was overrun in pass blocking in a way that suggests he has serious deficiencies there.

And, he didn't play long. Smith played a long time, with various units. And you know what? For the first time I have watched him, I thought he looked solid.

Smith always moved his feet pretty well. The problem was that he always seemed to struggle gathering himself to exert power on the pass rusher. He always seemed to struggle in projecting force to slow down or deflect the rusher's course and even, surprisingly, to stand up to bull rushes. He never seemed to be able to get his power centered or to be able to project it effectively.

Against KC, I saw a guy who played solid. He moved his feet, but more importantly was able to project stoutness and force to deal with pass rushes. I don't think I've ever previously seen Smith do so convincingly. I never saw him overpowered on a bull rush and he seemed to very consistently contain or deflect the rusher.

Now, I am not saying that he looked like O Pace. He didn't. I don't know much about the KC D front, but I will note that, according to the commentators, "the ones" were on the field for KC for a couple of the series Smith played.

What I am saying is that, if Smith can consistently center himself and project power as he moves his feet, he can play a very solid, perhaps above average ROT.

As for the running game, that has never been a problem. If J S regains his confidence, I think he'll return to his mauling ways.

For the first time, I feel I SEE Smith showing what we need, on a basic level, at ROT. I have always liked Saffold, and I think we all agree that is our 2 OTs stabilize, the O can do some good things.

 

[Yamahopper]

I wish J. Smooth the best and thank him for all his efforts. I hope it works out for him..
I don't think he made the team anyway for the fact the Rams would have had 2 RT's only which would have been a drag on flexibility.
The 1.5 mi. cap savings might have been the real key to the trade. More cash for vets. at the 53 cutdown.

Over the last couple seasons the play of Hunter, Richardson, Smith would be like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

 

[Faceplant]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

 

[Anonymous]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

Every single camp goer, and every single guy who has come on the net for years to break down OL play, including former linemen, say Smith was playing better this year and certainly better than Richardson. And as I said--it's all of them. Independently of each other, and on different boards.

It's the guys who didn't go to camp, watch him regularly, or go over games assessing line play, who are saying he didn't improve.

There is far more to this story than meets the eye.

 

[-X-]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

Every single camp goer, and every single guy who has come on the net for years to break down OL play, including former linemen, say Smith was playing better this year and certainly better than Richardson. And as I said--it's all of them. Independently of each other, and on different boards.

It's the guys who didn't go to camp, watch him regularly, or go over games assessing line play, who are saying he didn't improve.

There is far more to this story than meets the eye.

Possibly. I think it's money.

That said, what do you think the story is as it's being presented?

 

[Thordaddy]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

Every single camp goer, and every single guy who has come on the net for years to break down OL play, including former linemen, say Smith was playing better this year and certainly better than Richardson. And as I said--it's all of them. Independently of each other, and on different boards.

It's the guys who didn't go to camp, watch him regularly, or go over games assessing line play, who are saying he didn't improve.

There is far more to this story than meets the eye.

Possibly. I think it's money.

That said, what do you think the story is as it's being presented?

I'd heard he was refusing to wear a Fish stache
I also heard that Boo was a member of al quida :razzed:

 

[Anonymous]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

Every single camp goer, and every single guy who has come on the net for years to break down OL play, including former linemen, say Smith was playing better this year and certainly better than Richardson. And as I said--it's all of them. Independently of each other, and on different boards.

It's the guys who didn't go to camp, watch him regularly, or go over games assessing line play, who are saying he didn't improve.

There is far more to this story than meets the eye.

Possibly. I think it's money.

That said, what do you think the story is as it's being presented?

Well, first--to reiterate. We have credible, well known posters on several boards who have reps as line watchers, going way back. For example on the huddle it's RFL (who played OL in college). Old hand camp goers too. And usually, when you add that type up from the several boards, they say different things. My solution is to read them all. But then sometimes they all say the same thing. This time, one of the the things they all said about camp and the PS games is that Smith looked different, was playing different, and doing better than he had. Softli would echo that now and then.

So what happened? You're asking me to guess. Or to come up with a hunch. Cool.

What do I think the story is? Smith and Boudreau were just plain a bad marriage.

Dahl has spoken about Boudreau a lot over the years. According to him, it's easy to get in his doghouse, he does not have a whole lot of tolerance in him, and he is a tough love kinda guy. He alienates some players.

Which is fine. I get it. Sgt.Emery with a heart of gold.

And maybe he and Smith just did not work well together.

Now, I know the usual message board tendency will be to blame that on Smith.

I ain't blaming it on anyone.

A bad marriage is a bad marriage. In different circumstances, separately, X and Y are fine, but you put X and Y together and the chemistry is just wrong.

Maybe Boudreau thought Smith still carried too much psychologically from the neck trauma, and he likes his guys tough, without any of that kind of (insert Sgt. Emery phrase here). Maybe Smith isn't the kind of perfectionist he likes. Who knows. That could easily be both of them. Bad marriage.

That's my take. A guess/hunch.

 

[DR RAM]

As others have said, Smith has all the "physical tools" to be an effective RT. That said, I am not sure he ever had the heart or mind for it. Coming in to the league, Smith was motivated, excited and almost confident to the point of arrogance at times. I loved the attitude and thought it may serve him well, but I think ultimately, after being moved over to RT and then losing his starting job, he lost all confidence. In an interview a couple of weeks ago, he seemed like a shell of his former self. I think the concussions last year put a good scare into him too, and no one can blame him for that. At one point, he thought he had a spinal injury on one of those. Scary stuff.

As pointed out above, Smith has always been an above average run blocker. It appeared he was coming along in pass pro, but apparently the staff liked BFR better....which scares the HELL out of me. Here's hoping Smith and Hunter thrive in their new homes and make both teams better.....just don't count on it. There is a real possibility that neither makes the final 53.....

Every single camp goer, and every single guy who has come on the net for years to break down OL play, including former linemen, say Smith was playing better this year and certainly better than Richardson. And as I said--it's all of them. Independently of each other, and on different boards.

It's the guys who didn't go to camp, watch him regularly, or go over games assessing line play, who are saying he didn't improve.

There is far more to this story than meets the eye.

Possibly. I think it's money.

That said, what do you think the story is as it's being presented?

Everyone? No, not me. And I said he improved, he's just not better than Richardson, sadly. We needed a swing guy, and Richardson beat out Smith, There is no conspiracy with this staff. Look, I don't care what someone claims...you can't know what's going on with an offensive line by going to camp. If they do...RED FLAG.

Fisher's mouth> (On the thought behind the Smith-Hunter trade)
“We’ve been talking to the Jets for a week or so. Things started to pick up and we just felt like it was a good deal for both teams and probably a better deal for both players –[hil]just a fresh start[/hil]. So we went ahead and were able to put it together yesterday.”

(On why he thinks things didn’t work out for Smith in St. Louis)
“I just got here, but [hil]clearly, I think, (T) Barry’s (Richardson) won that job because of his experience.[/hil] I wish Jason the best. He did the best he could. [hil]He actually really improved this year[/hil]. I think Coach ‘Boos’ (Offensive Line Coach Paul Boudreau) was a huge impact on him. He played pretty well the other day, but I think it’s best that we just go a different direction.”

 

[Username]

Maybe Smith just couldn't learn the system? Maybe it so we could save some $. They should've just traded him for a pick though imo. That way you're not taking on Hunters salary too. Then use the Dahl to tackle promote someone to guard scenario. Maybe the Jets wouldn't agree to that though.

If the goal is to protect Sam I personally hope Hunter never sees the field. Unless it's in some sort of "jumbo" package. From what I read about Hunter, and from what I've watched from Smith this year, I'd much rather have Smith in there. Guess we'll see.

 

[DR RAM]

Maybe Smith just couldn't learn the system? Maybe it so we could save some $. They should've just traded him for a pick though imo. That way you're not taking on Hunters salary too. Then use the Dahl to tackle promote someone to guard scenario. Maybe the Jets wouldn't agree to that though.

If the goal is to protect Sam I personally hope Hunter never sees the field. Unless it's in some sort of "jumbo" package. From what I read about Hunter, and from what I've watched from Smith this year, I'd much rather have Smith in there. Guess we'll see.

We NEEDED a swing tackle, we didn't have one on the roster.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I don't think there was any major reason why we dumped Smith. As DR said, we needed a Swing tackle, and he wasn't beating out Richardson. He was improving, but it wasn't happening at a pace that was making the investment worth it. He was probably going to be gone next year regardless, no longer the tackle of the future so there wasn't really a reason to pay the money for him. We not have more space if we need, to try to get an serviceable upgrade for at least a year. 4+ million for a backup OT isn't really good.

OT is a position we need to find a long term answer there. Maybe the coaches feel they can get more from Richardson for 16+ (yeah, that's right, I said it) games than they do with Smith. Either way, I think by the start of next year, we'll have a new tackle that is more of a long term thing. If we get it through FA, trade, draft, or whatever I don't know, but I trust the staff will get it done in the long run. Meanwhile there's no need to throw 4 million at a guy to ride the bench.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think there was any major reason why we dumped Smith. As DR said, we needed a Swing tackle, and he wasn't beating out Richardson. He was improving, but it wasn't happening at a pace that was making the investment worth it. He was probably going to be gone next year regardless, no longer the tackle of the future so there wasn't really a reason to pay the money for him. We not have more space if we need, to try to get an serviceable upgrade for at least a year. 4+ million for a backup OT isn't really good.

OT is a position we need to find a long term answer there. Maybe the coaches feel they can get more from Richardson for 16+ (yeah, that's right, I said it) games than they do with Smith. Either way, I think by the start of next year, we'll have a new tackle that is more of a long term thing. If we get it through FA, trade, draft, or whatever I don't know, but I trust the staff will get it done in the long run. Meanwhile there's no need to throw 4 million at a guy to ride the bench.

That;s one opinion. There are many informed veteran line watchers who say he WAS better than Richardson. A lot of them, in fact.

When people spend time dissecting these things across the years, and get a rep for it, you will find that more often than not, they disagree. They don't see the same things. Now they all insist they're right but then here we are, reading all their different views, and they all insist with incredible energy how right they are. It's part of the genre.

My approach is to read them all and sift and weigh.

Let's put it this way. Playing favorites aside, there is no consensus out there among veteran OL watchers that Richardson flat outplayed Smith. In fact there's more of a consensus the other way.

Now since this is a matter of interpretation, you can do with that info what you want, of course.

I do know it makes for a more interesting discussion when people recognize that it's a matter of contending, different views churning around in discussion and that no one post, poster, or quote is going to solve it for us.

 

[Username]

Maybe Smith just couldn't learn the system? Maybe it so we could save some $. They should've just traded him for a pick though imo. That way you're not taking on Hunters salary too. Then use the Dahl to tackle promote someone to guard scenario. Maybe the Jets wouldn't agree to that though.

If the goal is to protect Sam I personally hope Hunter never sees the field. Unless it's in some sort of "jumbo" package. From what I read about Hunter, and from what I've watched from Smith this year, I'd much rather have Smith in there. Guess we'll see.

We NEEDED a swing tackle, we didn't have one on the roster.

I'd take my chances in the huge crash course Smith would have to endure learning the other spot.