Chicken or egg (QB vs Receiver)

[-X-]

I've seen this debate bandied about in the past, but it's particularly relevant to the Rams as we seem to be lacking both. I see some people saying we need to move up and grab the best QB in the draft, and I've seen people (for years) say that no QB on this team is gonna do diddly without a premier pass-catcher on the team.

There are very few QBs in the league who can flourish in a system without good receivers. And there's certainly VERY few rookies who would be able to do so. At the same time, there are very few receivers who would be able to post a good statistical season with a noodle armed sack magnet behind center.

So. Given the state of the Rams, who currently have Keenum slated as the incumbent starter, and their best wideout being Kenny Britt, which is a more important need at this point? Would Keenum look significantly better with an A.J. Green type receiver on the team, or would we be better served trying to acquire the next (in his prime) Peyton Manning and passing on the best receiver?

Yes, we can potentially do both, but I'm not convinced that QB has to come before receiver in the draft in order to acquire both. Are you?

 

[CGI_Ram]

We have talent on offense. We just need a QB to lead it.

So, QB now please.

I'd like more at WR, but Britt and Tavon are good weapons. The cupboard is not totally bare for our rookie QB.

 

[Prime Time]

So. Given the state of the Rams, who currently have Keenum slated as the incumbent starter, and their best wideout being Kenny Britt, which is a more important need at this point?

Are there any good QB's left in free agency? Are we in a position to pick one of the top QB's in the draft? If the answer is "no" to those two questions then the emphasis should be on finding a #1 receiver no matter how the Rams go about doing that.

 

[RamFan503]

For as much as we haven't secured a franchise QB, we also have not secured a true #1 receiver. Give me both please.

 

[tavian]

BPA

 

[RaminExile]

You just have to have your guy in a position where he's not going to get killed and lose all his confidence and spend all his progression time on the treatment table or looking at why such and such a play sucked.

If you're nearly competent - which the Rams are; just a few wideouts away offensively, you get your QB. The situation Bradford came into here? Maybe would have been better to get some skill players around first. Cleveland? I wouldn't want to quarterback there next season. Jacksonville for example is a good example of a good situation for a young QB. Nothing proven - but young pieces put around Bortles who will grow with him and get better and better.

 

[den-the-coach]

Give me both please.

Give me both if you don't please.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

BPA

You say this now.....

 

[jap]

Johnny: "That's right guys, you go right on ahead and keep ignoring me! I'm the best damn passer on the team; I'm the best damn punter in the entire league, and I'm one of the best DB's in the NFL, and no one even knows that last part! I'm a modern day Slingin' Sammy Baugh, and the world keeps right on spinning with only a mere taste of my immense passing skills and absolutely none! of LA's real ClampCity lordly gifts. You guys are getting only seeing a third of what I can produce and you don't even know it! Carry on, suckers!!!"

 

[-X-]

Without taking the easy way out (BPA, Both), I'm going with receiver first and QB second. If you're able to shut down our receivers with single coverage, that allows the defense to allocate more resources to stopping the run and/or rushing the passer. If you have to double or roll coverage to a dominant receiver, then that's one extra guy off the line. And sometimes one extra guy off the line is sufficient enough to sustain blocks. And if a defense decides they need to commit more defenders to getting after the run or getting after the QB, and they leave a guy like A.J. Green alone, then that's a jump ball 100% of the time. And any QB can throw a jump ball.

Can we throw a jump ball to Britt or Austin? Maybe Quick, but I don't get the warm and fuzzies about his aggressiveness in those situations.

 

[RamDino]

A good quarterback will make all the receivers better (plus the running back). A good receiver can make plays and put up numbers, but the offense can still stink. Think Josh Gordon and Cleveland. I vote QB.

 

[tavian]

You say this now.....

View attachment 12486

Sorry I meant BPA between the 2 positions.
that includes playmaking TE 's

 

[-X-]

A good quarterback will make all the receivers better (plus the running back). A good receiver can make plays and put up numbers, but the offense can still stink. Think Josh Gordon and Cleveland. I vote QB.

The inverse of that is also true. A good receiver can make a QB look good and two of them can make a QB look great. Look at how QBs do when they lose their top receiving targets. Romo without Dez, Bulger without Holt & Bruce, even Brady looked awful early in 2013 when he had no receivers (9 TDs, 6 ints). If we have a receiver that's putting up numbers (using your words there), then we have a receiver that's doing something ours haven't done in a decade. I don't know that Gordon in Cleveland is a good example, because the team as a whole wasn't conducive to winning. We have the other components. A decent young O-line, a great RB, and a dominant defense. All we're missing is the good QB and at least one good receiver.

I'm trying to determine how people are prioritizing that, and I think I have your answer. Just adding to the discussion is all I'm doing now.

 

[tavian]

I've seen this debate bandied about in the past, but it's particularly relevant to the Rams as we seem to be lacking both. I see some people saying we need to move up and grab the best QB in the draft, and I've seen people (for years) say that no QB on this team is gonna do diddly without a premier pass-catcher on the team.

There are very few QBs in the league who can flourish in a system without good receivers. And there's certainly VERY few rookies who would be able to do so. At the same time, there are very few receivers who would be able to post a good statistical season with a noodle armed sack magnet behind center.

So. Given the state of the Rams, who currently have Keenum slated as the incumbent starter, and their best wideout being Kenny Britt, which is a more important need at this point? Would Keenum look significantly better with an A.J. Green type receiver on the team, or would we be better served trying to acquire the next (in his prime) Peyton Manning and passing on the best receiver?

Yes, we can potentially do both, but I'm not convinced that QB has to come before receiver in the draft in order to acquire both. Are you?

I am going receiver, because if you give Keenum enough weapons ,he in my opinion could be successful enough to compete.
especially when you factor in our defense and run game.
A Laquon Treadwell and Hunter Henry 1-2 would have me feeling pretty damn good about our offense.
Meanwhile Mannion continues to develop.

 

[-X-]

I am going receiver, because if you give Keenum enough weapons ,he in my opinion could be successful enough to compete.
especially when you factor in our defense and run game.
A Laquon Treadwell and Hunter Henry 1-2 would have me feeling pretty damn good about our offense.
Meanwhile Mannion continues to develop.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think there's a chicken/egg argument here at all. It's QB.

Give Keenum all the weapons you want, he's still Keenum. Yet, Tom Brady helped the Patriots win 3 Super Bowls in 4 years with WRs that were nothing to write home about. There are a number of other QBs that made due just fine without having elite weapons. Give this team a top tier QB and they'll be just fine without a top tier group of pass catchers.

The question isn't if Keenum can do well enough for the Rams to win if you give him enough weapons, the question is why you would allocate our limited resources into giving a QB weapons that we know isn't good enough?

I want to win. But I also want to be a real contender. The Rams have spent long enough building a team. It's time to make the jump. If a QB can't win with a top 10 running game and defense because he lacks elite WRs too, we picked the wrong guy. Every team will have weaknesses because you have limits on your resources (salary cap).

Case Keenum isn't making this team a contender.

I also feel like I have to point out that when Manning was drafted, Marvin Harrison was already on the team. He had 0 1000+ yard seasons in 3 years. Now, I'm not saying Marvin wasn't a great WR. I'm saying that I have a strong feeling that Tavon and Britt would be considered better WRs if they played with a top tier QB. Am I content with the WRs we have? No.

But we can address the WR position in the 2nd round. Tyler Boyd and Sterling Shepard are two names to target. The Rams need to get a QB.

Yes, I'm convinced the QB needs to come before the WR in this draft class.

 

[-X-]

I don't think there's a chicken/egg argument here at all. It's QB.

That's fine, but clearly there are others who view it differently. We all know you think Keenum is garbage and you're tired of losing, and you have a QB in this draft who can turn it all around for us, but that's all speculation. The fact is, this team hasn't had a legit starting wideout since Brandon Lloyd, and he made Bradford (and Feeley) look much better than they did before he arrived. How much better do you think Bradford would have looked with guys other than Gibson, Robinson and Amendola as his starters in 2010? To that end, why did he look (and perform) much better when Clayton and Alexander stepped it up for him? That's the symbiotic relationship between QB and WR that fuels this chicken-egg debate that takes place on every team board at one point or another.

 

[12intheBox]

QB.

I see teams w awesome WR1s out there struggle year after year. Teams with awesome QBs contend year after year.

 

[tavian]

why you would allocate our limited resources into giving a QB weapons that we know isn't good enough?

Do we know this?Personally I haven't seen him play enough to KNOW anything.

 

[-X-]

Do we know this?Personally I haven't seen him play enough to KNOW anything.

That, and how do we know how good he is (or isn't) if he's not given the resources most QBs need to maximize their talents?
There are no Tom Bradys or Peyton Mannings available in free agency, and we have zero knowledge of how any rookie QB is going to fare in the NFL.