Case Keenum 3-1

[cgsuddeath]

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets the Austin Davis treatment this offseason.

I hope not

 

[blackbart]

Mannion is a 3rd round QB. He'd be picked up by another team within 24 hours of being placed on the Ram's practice squad. Unfortunately, Mannion to the practice squad is not an option.

Foles is due a $6M signing bonus if he's on the team on March 18th. The Rams will make their decision on whether to trade, cut or keep him for the season LONG before any preseason games get played.

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2015/11/21/9747852/the-implications-of-nick-foles-contract-extension

The team will need to open up a QB slot for a new quarterback. To do that the Rams will have to get rid of one of their current QB's. The logical candidate is Keenum.

I suppose the team could try and force one of the existing QB's to go on injured reserve with a promise to bring them back during the season. That's risky but might be a possibility as a means to open up a roster spot for a 4th QB.

I disagree with that logic, Foles has proved he cannot play at this level, the money is gone because of a bad decision. Adding another bad decision by keeping him and jettisoning Keenum who has proved he CAN play at this level would be compounding an already bad decision.

Cutting Foles and eating the money is the logical choice.

 

[Rams43]

Wow! A lot of angst in this thread.

Here's my take.

Keenum has done well while winning 3 straight. Hopefully, soon to be 4 straight.
He is capable of more, but isn't being asked to do so.
He makes few mental mistakes.
His receivers are making catches for him far better than for Foles.
He often kills called plays into better ones at LOS.
Doesn't take unnecessary sacks.
Has made the occasional deep TD throw, even once against Sherman.
Keeping his poise in Seattle in the rain before that record noisy crowd and coming away with the win was no small thing. Anybody see that coming? I sure didn't.
I think Keenum has evolved, and I think he could evolve further under a more aggressive HC. The "newer" Keenum>the older Keenum, iow.
I think he could be a fine "bridge" QB while our eventual starter is being groomed.
We can win games with Keenum given our D and ST abilities (Hell, he just DID it in the most difficult venue in the league).

Having said all that, I agree with jrry32. We need to continue our QB search via draft, FA, trade, I don't care. Until we find a top 10 QB. That seems to be beyond obvious to me.

Meanwhile, I think we can win a lot of games behind Keenum, together with our D and ST. Might not look anything like the GSOT days, of course, but a win is a win. There were 11-12 wins there for the taking this season with even decent QB play on our part. Keenum can give us at least THAT.

BTW, I predict that Foles will be released and they will eat his guaranteed money. It's a sunk cost, either way and as someone already pointed out, we need the roster spot more than we need the money.

We will go into OTA's with Keenum, Mannion, new guy (draftee, FA, or trade).

 

[badnews]

Bridgewater....Carr.

There are a handful of QBs worth taking a shot at.

Goff
Lynch
Cook
Wentz
Brisset.

Those are 5 intriguing QBs. More than most years. Good mix of pro-style and spread too. Each have some very good qualities to like in a QB. Fast processing, excellent touch on the ball, mobility (nearly all of them), rocket arm, above average arm, etc.

This team hasn't earned the right to pass up on QB talent that falls into their laps or is in reasonable reach of a trade-up.

We've had garbage or heart break at the position for far too long to merely settle.

And there's something to be said of having a QB to manage and "just get you by" and a QB who can, at least, have a handful of games a year where he can take over when the run game or D struggles.

This teams offense is garbage still because of the passing and if we didn't have an elite HB in Gurely and instead just had Mason and BamBam, we'd likely only have 2 or 3 wins. Keenum hasn't exactly improved these numbers.

31st in passing yards
31st yards/attempt
31st in TDs
31st in passer rating

While actually giving up the fewest sacks in the NFL. That is truly astounding.

Only 2 teams are playoff bound with a rating under 90. One, DEN, has a legit top five D. Houston plays in a sorry ass division.

And I'm 100% on board with taking a QB if one is there who is worthy of passing on the other talent available at the time.

Our lack of passing offense combined with our low sack numbers are indicative of the design of our offense. That's the only way you see that.

 

[Amitar]

He might not be THE answer but he did pretty well today. He threw some very nice passes and he made no truly egregious mistakes,

He missed at least two-three long passes when the receivers were open. Short and out of bounds. His long ball accuracy is a huge concern IMHO.

 

[RAMpage28]

Maybe Jrry is right and they could start Connor Cook right away. Maybe Goff too, but you most likely sit Lynch and Wentz, I don't think Goff starts Immediately personally. Plus highly picked QBs are not guaranteed to succeed at all much less right away. LeNnon better e r t than Keenum? Who else is out there? It is real easy to just say get a better QB.

This is going to sound like more ripping on Case, but I'm sure there are more than just the top 5 prospects at QB that can out perform him. I mean, I'm watching AJ and Brock go at it right now against great defenses and they are outperforming what Case has done statistically and one was a second rounder and the other a day three pick. I'm sure there are some late rounders that can compare to Keenum. Point to talent around them as a way to explain it, but they are facing quality opponents right now. Not saying any street guy is better than Case, but it's easier to say get a better QB when the QB you are replacing isn't exactly highly ranked at his position.

 

[Amitar]

I hope the Rams cut Foles too.

 

[jjab360]

This is going to sound like more ripping on Case, but I'm sure there are more than just the top 5 prospects at QB that can out perform him. I mean, I'm watching AJ and Brock go at it right now against great defenses and they are outperforming what Case has done statistically and one was a second rounder and the other a day three pick. I'm sure there are some late rounders that can compare to Keenum. Point to talent around them as a way to explain it, but they are facing quality opponents right now. Not saying any street guy is better than Case, but it's easier to say get a better QB when the QB you are replacing isn't exactly highly ranked at his position.

The score is only 14-10 in the 4th quarter and both AJ and Brock are working with two of the best supporting casts in the entire league. Your premise is flawed...

 

[CoachO]

Mannion is not going anywhere. The team could use a 1st round choice on a QB. And the team could bring in another veteran whom they deem is better (if they don't keep Foles due to his contract).

Sure the Rams (NOT KEENUM) have won 3 games with Keenum at QB, but he threw for 124 yards vs. Detroit and the offense only scored 14 points. He threw for 103 yards vs. Seattle (a team the Rams matchup very well against) and the offense only scored 16 points. His big game was a 234 yard passing effort vs. Tampa. C'mon. Quite frankly, one could argue that the defense had more to do with these wins the Keenum.

While he should get a fair shot, they'd be crazy not to look for an upgrade and it wouldn't shock me if he weren't given one due to the limited snaps teams get during the offseason.

BTW, keep in mind that Davis had less experience and didn't have Gurley or Austin being used as effectively to help take the pressure off like Keenum.

Against Detroit, Fisher took Keenum completely out of the game by sitting on a lead the entire 2nd half. So referencing his "stats" in that game is irrelevant. He was near perfect in the Tampa game, and again, was limited to some extent by the "sitting on a lead" philosophy.

I think what some are missing, is the fact that no QB is going to put up video game numbers in this offense. When they throw it 30+ times in any given game, they are more than likely losing that game. That has nothing to do with who's playing the position, it's all about the system.

 

[Akrasian]

Nice theory, but I doubt either one will happen....

1) Who would trade for Foles at this point. If memory serves, he's guaranteed something in the neighborhood of $6mil next season. At best, some other team might consider him for a backup role. And who is going to take him on at $6mil as a backup(?)

2) Ok, if we can't trade him, let's just cut him. But remember that salary....$6mil regardless of whether he plays a down or is sitting at home sucking down brewskies with the rest of us. And if they do that, then they have to find someone to fill the backup role. What's that going to cost? Could we find a decent backup for say...$1.5mill? I kinda doubt it unless you're willing to accept maybe an Austin Davis level QB. But let's say we do get lucky and find someone to sign in that range. Now the Rams have roughly $7.5mil total wrapped up in the 'backup QB'.

About the only way I see Foles not being part of the team next year is if Mannion is ready to fill the backup role and Keenum is your likely #1...., or they draft someone that can either step right into the starting role (pretty unlikely). Then Keenum becomes the backup and Mannion can continue to develop.

If you want to trade a QB that might actually have a little trade value, it would be Keenum. He might net you something like a 4th or 5th rounder. But obviously, that only happens if the Rams feel they have a better option for starter.

Hate to say it, but I fully expect Foles to be a Ram next year. I just don't see them tying up that much $$ to have him sit at home.

A team trading for him wouldn't be paying him that much. His salary is 1.75 million next year - not guaranteed. He has a cap hit of $1 million for signing bonus, and a guaranteed $6 million roster bonus that the Rams will have to pay.

At $1.75 million, and his past history and the many problems the Rams had, they might be able to trade him. But I doubt they will unless they clearly have a replacement, or they love Mannion and have resigned Case.

 

[blackbart]

This is going to sound like more ripping on Case, but I'm sure there are more than just the top 5 prospects at QB that can out perform him. I mean, I'm watching AJ and Brock go at it right now against great defenses and they are outperforming what Case has done statistically and one was a second rounder and the other a day three pick. I'm sure there are some late rounders that can compare to Keenum. Point to talent around them as a way to explain it, but they are facing quality opponents right now. Not saying any street guy is better than Case, but it's easier to say get a better QB when the QB you are replacing isn't exactly highly ranked at his position.

Depends on what you are using to rank them. Team chemistry? W/L (Team stat I know) individual stats (Who cares) Knows the offense. Reads defenses. Pre snap adjustments. There just aren't more than 5 guys or even 5 that could come in next year and play as well. Eventually maybe some but game 1 next year no one.

Keenum might not even win the starting job, Mannion is going to have something to say about it I don't see him sitting out next year too.

 

[Akrasian]

The team will need to open up a QB slot for a new quarterback. To do that the Rams will have to get rid of one of their current QB's. The logical candidate is Keenum.

Um, no. I would expect the Rams to have 4 quarterbacks going into training camp. The Rams don't save anything cutting Foles before then. There is good reason to value Keenum more than Foles, anyway. The cap savings keeping Foles is ash tray change for an NFL team, anyway. $750k for a QB is nothing.

I expect the Rams to try to resign CK, keep Foles and Mannion, and try to get either a good rookie or a solid vet also. Even if they can resign Keenum they keep Foles to training camp, unless they can trade him for something worthwhile and they can pick up somebody else they want - either a good draft pick (I don't expect them to trade up though) or a vet they like too.

 

[RAMpage28]

The score is only 14-10 in the 4th quarter and both AJ and Brock are working with two of the best supporting casts in the entire league. Your premise is flawed...

Against 2 top 5 defenses. Both could argue being best. As far as two of the best supporting casts... Are they? Cincy kind of, despite an inconsistent to say the least running game, missing they're best redzone target in Eifert who was challenging Gronk this year for best TE. Still, AJ and Marvin are better than what we got along with a good O-line I give you that.

Then Brock has holes in 3/5 his O-line, especially his RT. One of the worst running games in the league, the corpses of Owen Daniels and Vernon Davis at TE, DT who is under performing this year compared to the previous standard he has set, and Emmanuel Sanders who is still pretty good this year so I'll concede that.

These guys are having some of their first starts in this league on primetime in the middle of a playoff chase and are handling the opposing defenses rather well for the most part. Both are showing quite a bit more than Keenum, regardless of score.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

I know this much - no way Britt scores that td with foles. The ball would have been late and behind him. Dicky would have broken it up or intercepted. And the announcers would have started drooling about what a great cb he is.

.

 

[jrry32]

Um, no. I would expect the Rams to have 4 quarterbacks going into training camp. The Rams don't save anything cutting Foles before then. There is good reason to value Keenum more than Foles, anyway. The cap savings keeping Foles is ash tray change for an NFL team, anyway. $750k for a QB is nothing.

I expect the Rams to try to resign CK, keep Foles and Mannion, and try to get either a good rookie or a solid vet also. Even if they can resign Keenum they keep Foles to training camp, unless they can trade him for something worthwhile and they can pick up somebody else they want - either a good draft pick (I don't expect them to trade up though) or a vet they like too.

Why? What does having Foles in camp do for us?

 

[jrry32]

Against 2 top 5 defenses. Both could argue being best. As far as two of the best supporting casts... Are they? Cincy kind of, despite an inconsistent to say the least running game, missing they're best redzone target in Eifert who was challenging Gronk this year for best TE. Still, AJ and Marvin are better than what we got along with a good O-line I give you that.

Then Brock has holes in 3/5 his O-line, especially his RT. One of the worst running games in the league, the corpses of Owen Daniels and Vernon Davis at TE, DT who is under performing this year compared to the previous standard he has set, and Emmanuel Sanders who is still pretty good this year so I'll concede that.

These guys are having some of their first starts in this league on primetime in the middle of a playoff chase and are handling the opposing defenses rather well for the most part. Both are showing quite a bit more than Keenum, regardless of score.

I gotta agree with jjab. I wasn't blown away by either QB. Did much of the same that Keenum does but with a better supporting cast. Well, McCarron in the first half was more impressive but he had a really poor second half.

 

[jjab360]

Against 2 top 5 defenses. Both could argue being best. As far as two of the best supporting casts... Are they? Cincy kind of, despite an inconsistent to say the least running game, missing they're best redzone target in Eifert who was challenging Gronk this year for best TE. Still, AJ and Marvin are better than what we got along with a good O-line I give you that.

Then Brock has holes in 3/5 his O-line, especially his RT. One of the worst running games in the league, the corpses of Owen Daniels and Vernon Davis at TE, DT who is under performing this year compared to the previous standard he has set, and Emmanuel Sanders who is still pretty good this year so I'll concede that.

These guys are having some of their first starts in this league on primetime in the middle of a playoff chase and are handling the opposing defenses rather well for the most part. Both are showing quite a bit more than Keenum, regardless of score.

C'mon man, that's a pretty bad attempt at trying to tear down two of the most stacked offenses in the league to try to prove a point. Those two guys you're talking about would probably look like Foles or worse with this team, it astounds me that fans pining over the next Matt Flynn or Matt Cassel still don't recognize the importance of a supporting cast. Heck, just look at the difference of this year's Kirk Cousins with a healthy DJax, Jordan Reed, and Garcon compared to year's past where he looked like one of the worst QBs in the league.

And as far as top 5 defenses, Keenum just went up against the no.3 scoring and no.2 yardage defense in one of the toughest places to play in recent memory while it was raining and scored more points there than any Rams O in the past decade for whatever that's worth. And that's with probably the worst receiving corp in the league or at least you'd be hard pressed to find a worse one.

 

[RamWoodie]

What the Rams end up with RG3? That would be a really wierd thing...and it's not out of the question either.

 

[RAMpage28]

C'mon man, that's a pretty bad attempt at trying to tear down two of the most stacked offenses in the league to try to prove a point. Those two guys you're talking about would probably look like Foles or worse with this team, it astounds me that fans pining over the next Matt Flynn or Matt Cassel still don't recognize the importance of a supporting cast. Heck, just look at the difference of this year's Kirk Cousins with a healthy DJax, Jordan Reed, and Garcon compared to year's past where he looked like one of the worst QBs in the league.

And as far as top 5 defenses, Keenum just went up against the no.3 scoring and no.2 yardage defense in one of the toughest places to play in recent memory while it was raining and scored more points there than any Rams O in the past decade for whatever that's worth. And that's with probably the worst receiving corp in the league or at least you'd be hard pressed to find a worse one.

Yeah, Keenum went up a great defense as well and had a solid game, but underwhelming by most standards. Cassel had a comparable game against the Hawks stats wise (in before "stats don't tell the whole story". I know) while having far superior talent and I wouldn't be defending him.

I get the importance of a good supporting cast. We have a bad one. The Bengals and Broncos have way better casts than the Rams do, but that's not to say they aren't flawed, especially in their current states. I'm not saying they have a worse group of skill players than the Rams do. The Rams have probably one of the worst groups in the league, but I would probably take McCarron and Brock over Keenum regardless of those casts. If those guys are the next Flynn and Cassel, I would love to know what that makes Keenum. As shown above with Cassel vs Seahawks, a supporting cast doesn't always elevate a QB. A good QB to go along with a good cast would be nice. I'm not sure Case is that QB while I would think our two monday night participants are better.

Case had eight games as a starter in Houston in 2013. A nightmare season where Kubiak had a "mini-stroke" and they went 2-14. Case had an effective 1-2 backfield with Ben Taint and Foster along with a still productive Andre Johnson and a rookie DeAndre Hopkins and went 0-8 with a 54% completion rate 9-6 TD:INT and about 1700 yards. Add in pro-bowl left tackle Duane Brown and a high quality center (even into his advanced age) in Chris Meyers and you possibly got a better overall supporting cast than the current Rams. I know it was two years ago but he wasn't very impressive back then so I find it hard to place faith in him.

Kirk has a better cast now, but it's not just that. He actually progressed as a passer and cut down on stupid mistakes. Not to mention he was a better prospect than Keenum. Keenum now has 16 starts throughout his career between two teams and Krik has a year and a half after this week. Kirk has had more consistency since he has been on the same team but still. I don't think there's much more to say between the two of them. I think I know which most would rank above the other.

Would Brock, Kirk, or McCarrron look like Foles on the Rams? I find it hard to believe. Just like I would find it hard to believe that Case would look great in their positions or on a stacked offensive team. Look better? Yeah, but I don't see him as a playoff leader or anything.

 

[jjab360]

Yeah, Keenum went up a great defense as well and had a solid game, but underwhelming by most standards. Cassel had a comparable game against the Hawks stats wise (in before "stats don't tell the whole story". I know) while having far superior talent and I wouldn't be defending him.

I get the importance of a good supporting cast. We have a bad one. The Bengals and Broncos have way better casts than the Rams do, but that's not to say they aren't flawed, especially in their current states. I'm not saying they have a worse group of skill players than the Rams do. The Rams have probably one of the worst groups in the league, but I would probably take McCarron and Brock over Keenum regardless of those casts. If those guys are the next Flynn and Cassel, I would love to know what that makes Keenum. As shown above with Cassel vs Seahawks, a supporting cast doesn't always elevate a QB. A good QB to go along with a good cast would be nice. I'm not sure Case is that QB while I would think our two monday night participants are better.

Case had eight games as a starter in Houston in 2013. A nightmare season where Kubiak had a "mini-stroke" and they went 2-14. Case had an effective 1-2 backfield with Ben Taint and Foster along with a still productive Andre Johnson and a rookie DeAndre Hopkins and went 0-8 with a 54% completion rate 9-6 TD:INT and about 1700 yards. Add in pro-bowl left tackle Duane Brown and a high quality center (even into his advanced age) in Chris Meyers and you possibly got a better overall supporting cast than the current Rams. I know it was two years ago but he wasn't very impressive back then so I find it hard to place faith in him.

Kirk has a better cast now, but it's not just that. He actually progressed as a passer and cut down on stupid mistakes. Not to mention he was a better prospect than Keenum. Keenum now has 16 starts throughout his career between two teams and Krik has a year and a half after this week. Kirk has had more consistency since he has been on the same team but still. I don't think there's much more to say between the two of them. I think I know which most would rank above the other.

Would Brock, Kirk, or McCarrron look like Foles on the Rams? I find it hard to believe. Just like I would find it hard to believe that Case would look great in their positions or on a stacked offensive team. Look better? Yeah, but I don't see him as a playoff leader or anything.

A fews years ago, you also would've found it hard to believe that Foles would look like Foles on the Rams. But he did, and they probably would too. This is a hard offense to succeed in and Case clearly isn't the same QB he was two years ago just like Kirk isn't the same QB he was two years ago.

Is he the answer? In all likelihood, probably not. The more relevant question right now is can we win with him while we're looking for the answer. Recent history says maybe so, but I guess we'll see.