Browns to interview Mike Martz

[Blue and Gold]

I think he'd be nuts to try and coach up Manziel

 

[A55VA6]

Browns interviewed Rams QB coach Frank Cignetti for OC today.

 

[blue4]

Actually, he was one of the best OCs for 2 years..Other than that he hasn't had an offense inside the top 20...I'm sure I read that in that article...

I seem to remember more than 2 years of offenses better than 20th. You'd have to leave out the years he was HC but still called the plays.

 

[Blue and Gold]

Playing behind a largely inexperienced offensive line, Cutler has faced constant pressure all season but nothing like Sunday's two quarters of harassment by the Giants.

But the answer -- at least in a Martz offense -- is not to leave extra blockers in to protect the quarterback, according to Warner.

"In a situation like that for me, some quarterbacks on some teams would say, 'Well, let's leave a couple extra guys in to block. For me personally, I would say 'Coach, let me get every receiver out in a route and I'll get the ball out of my hands quickly," Warner said. "Don't leave me back there to hold it on a seven-step drop and just take our chances. Get everybody out, let me make a decision, let me get the ball out of my hands quickly. So I think there are a couple of approaches to it.

"Knowing Mike, knowing his system, that's what we always did. We didn't want to leave guys in to block. We would take chances trying to get the ball out of our hands and into our playmakers' hands and let them make plays if we were having trouble up front."


Dick Vermeil was the Rams' head coach when they won Super Bowl XXXIV, with Martz as his offensive coordinator and Lovie Smith as his defensive coordinator. Vermeil called Martz a ''courageous play-caller.''

''He can scare you to death when you're on the other end of the headset,'' Vermeil told ''The Waddle & Silvy Show'' on WMVP-AM (1000). ''Once you get used to his aggressive approach and working with him as a team, I don't think there's any better.''

 

[LesBaker]

What if someone HAS looked at it (Stats, LLC and NFLGSIS) and the numbers are the same in 1999 and 2000-2001. Vermeil didn't call teh offense in 1999. He turned all of it over to Martz.

So, isn't the burden on those who think the offense was different with Vermeil there? I mean one psoter suggested that Jeff Robinson had something to do with, but it seems there was more of Robinson in 2001 than in 1999.

So, if you think there was "a lot more spread and empty" I would love to check out the evidence . . . I could be wrong, but would like to see the numbers. (other than the ones I have seen)

That's only partially true. Often DV would talk to Martz in the booth and tell him to call a run or pass play, he had the choice as to what play, but DV was dictating air or ground sometimes.

My memory tells me two things. I did some work on 4-5-empty backfield sets from SI's splits on the different line ups. 2000 and 2002 when Warner played Martz went loco but during 2002 when Bulger played he went to MiniQ as I called it. Scaled WAY back. .

It was a HUGE topic of discussion on the Herd and several guys did detailed breakdowns. In 99 and 01 Martz was more "controlled" so to speak. He had much better balance and was running when he had leads he was comfy with.

 

[LesBaker]

Personally, I find the Browns intriguing. There are pieces on both sides of the ball there.

Then why don't you just move to Cleveland and be a fucking Browns fan.

 

[Blue and Gold]

That's only partially true. Often DV would talk to Martz in the booth and tell him to call a run or pass play, he had the choice as to what play, but DV was dictating air or ground sometimes.

My memory tells me two things. I did some work on 4-5-empty backfield sets from SI's splits on the different line ups. 2000 and 2002 when Warner played Martz went loco but during 2002 when Bulger played he went to MiniQ as I called it. Scaled WAY back. .

It was a HUGE topic of discussion on the Herd and several guys did detailed breakdowns. In 99 and 01 Martz was more "controlled" so to speak. He had much better balance and was running when he had leads he was comfy with.

"When Martz was hired to be the offensive coordinator of the Rams in 1999, Dick Vermeil gave him full authority over offensive schemes and play-calling. Martz felt second-guessed, during games and while game-planning, by veteran Vermeil assistant Mike White. After White openly derided a Martz play-call during a game at Tennessee that fall, Martz made it clear to Vermeil and White he didn't want White around his offensive players or their meetings for the rest of the year. And when White entered an offensive team meeting and sat down in the back of the room late in the season, Martz said to him: "Get the f--- out of here, Mike." The players loved it because they knew Martz was progress and White was the bad old days. And Martz loved it because he was exercising the power he'd rightly earned. "

Now, did Vermeil make suggestions or tell Martz they wanted to do things? Sure, but Vermeil didn't call plays. But you mention 1999 and 2001 they were "more controlled" I would agree, but Vermeil was gone in 2001. The thing is the Rams defenses were great in 1999 and 2001. Not in 2000 or 2002. I agree he scaled things back for Bulger, just as he did with Hanie when Cutler went down.

But the input Vermeil had was normal and to be expected, but as the article I posted, Martz had "full authority". Did he listen to Faulk or Ike or Vermeil? Sure. But we all know it was Martz's offense

 

[LesBaker]

"When Martz was hired to be the offensive coordinator of the Rams in 1999, Dick Vermeil gave him full authority over offensive schemes and play-calling. Martz felt second-guessed, during games and while game-planning, by veteran Vermeil assistant Mike White. After White openly derided a Martz play-call during a game at Tennessee that fall, Martz made it clear to Vermeil and White he didn't want White around his offensive players or their meetings for the rest of the year. And when White entered an offensive team meeting and sat down in the back of the room late in the season, Martz said to him: "Get the f--- out of here, Mike." The players loved it because they knew Martz was progress and White was the bad old days. And Martz loved it because he was exercising the power he'd rightly earned. "

Now, did Vermeil make suggestions or tell Martz they wanted to do things? Sure, but Vermeil didn't call plays. But you mention 1999 and 2001 they were "more controlled" I would agree, but Vermeil was gone in 2001. The thing is the Rams defenses were great in 1999 and 2001. Not in 2000 or 2002. I agree he scaled things back for Bulger, just as he did with Hanie when Cutler went down.

But the input Vermeil had was normal and to be expected, but as the article I posted, Martz had "full authority". Did he listen to Faulk or Ike or Vermeil? Sure. But we all know it was Martz's offense

I didn't say he "called plays". Often he said run or pass. There are videos, I have seen them, where DV tells him "Mikey give me a run play here" or "Keep attacking them" so he did sometimes dictate what he wanted.

 

[Blue and Gold]

I didn't say he "called plays". Often he said run or pass. There are videos, I have seen them, where DV tells him "Mikey give me a run play here" or "Keep attacking them" so he did sometimes dictate what he wanted.

Yeah, that's normal. And that's all part of the game plan that is installed during the week. I don't know what "often" is. Did it happen? Of course. But it's also true Martz ran the offense. And when Mike White was butting in, Vermeil backed him off.

 

[reggae]

This makes me sad.

Martz's head will explode if they try that stuff with him. Just looks like a bad marriage to me.

The Rams with Fish running things, IMO, are a far better situation to maximize Martz's strengths.

That's the best laugh I've had this year. First off Fish is the man! 2nd Martz is the putz! And there you have it.

 

[Blue and Gold]

Martz is the putz! And there you have it.

I'll let someone be a putz if they give us one of these; which Martz was a key component.

 

[reggae]

I'll let someone be a putz if they give us one of these; which Martz was a key component.

really, how many TD's did he throw for?

 

[Blue and Gold]

really, how many TD's did he throw for?

''We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said. ''We had other great coaches, too. But [Martz] was, to me, the real catalyst. He was the final piece of our puzzle.''

Vermeil in 2010: "We took a team to the Super Bowl. Without him we don't go."

Vermeil at Super Bowl 1999: "Mike is a great coach. We wouldn't be here without him."

Vermeil in 2006: I can't think, in my history of coaching, of any assistant who came into an NFL franchise and made the immediate impact that Mike Martz did in 1999.

Not convinced:
The guy throwing the TDs said,

"He helped teach me how to play the game," Warner said of Martz. "He helped me become more efficient with my fundamentals. He taught me more about the X's and O's of football, different positions that I ever knew before, and the offense was perfect for me."

“It shaped me as a player, no question,” Warner said. “It was so instrumental in who I became as a football player in every facet.”

''He was the most intelligent football coach I've ever been around,'' Kurt Warner said of Martz. ''He taught me more about the game than any other coach. He obviously helped me physically with technique, throwing the ball and being balanced. He was so valuable to my career and to where I'm at as a football player right now and what I know about the game. It was definitely a process, but he was so good, both physically and mentally in getting ready to play and helping me become the quarterback that I am.''


And the guys catching the passes said,"
"I met Coach Martz back in 1995. Coach Martz, he taught me accountability as far as football was concerned, as far as being a receiver. He taught me the technique, how to run a route. He taught me how to watch other great receivers and take what they had and do what they did and add it to my game.

He also taught me aggression, how to have controlled aggression on the football field. I think all of that was being placed in me and reminding me to be a football player first and a wide receiver second. We all know that football is a collision sport, and I pride myself on being a football player and not just a wide receiver. If I had to cut you, you best believe you’ll be cut. If I had to block you hard, block you after the whistle, any fisticuffs, I was willing to do that up until the referees break it up. A lot of that was instilled in from Coach Mike Martz.


“In [Mike Martz's] system, you gotta be able to run. You’d better be cerebral, you’d better be able to learn and you’d better have thick skin because he’s so demanding. You’re working with a perfectionist. If you can’t do those three things — if you’re not tough, if you’re not willing to go and block and run routes and be efficient and be quick, you will not play in his system.”

-Free agent wide receiver Torry Holt on what it takes for a wide receiver to fit into Mike Martz’s offense.

Maybe, just maybe, you've got a personal thing against Martz . . . because it's clear: ''We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said.

 

[reggae]

''We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said. ''We had other great coaches, too. But [Martz] was, to me, the real catalyst. He was the final piece of our puzzle.''

Vermeil in 2010: "We took a team to the Super Bowl. Without him we don't go."

Vermeil at Super Bowl 1999: "Mike is a great coach. We wouldn't be here without him."

Vermeil in 2006: I can't think, in my history of coaching, of any assistant who came into an NFL franchise and made the immediate impact that Mike Martz did in 1999.

Not convinced:
The guy throwing the TDs said,

"He helped teach me how to play the game," Warner said of Martz. "He helped me become more efficient with my fundamentals. He taught me more about the X's and O's of football, different positions that I ever knew before, and the offense was perfect for me."

“It shaped me as a player, no question,” Warner said. “It was so instrumental in who I became as a football player in every facet.”

''He was the most intelligent football coach I've ever been around,'' Kurt Warner said of Martz. ''He taught me more about the game than any other coach. He obviously helped me physically with technique, throwing the ball and being balanced. He was so valuable to my career and to where I'm at as a football player right now and what I know about the game. It was definitely a process, but he was so good, both physically and mentally in getting ready to play and helping me become the quarterback that I am.''


And the guys catching the passes said,"
"I met Coach Martz back in 1995. Coach Martz, he taught me accountability as far as football was concerned, as far as being a receiver. He taught me the technique, how to run a route. He taught me how to watch other great receivers and take what they had and do what they did and add it to my game.

He also taught me aggression, how to have controlled aggression on the football field. I think all of that was being placed in me and reminding me to be a football player first and a wide receiver second. We all know that football is a collision sport, and I pride myself on being a football player and not just a wide receiver. If I had to cut you, you best believe you’ll be cut. If I had to block you hard, block you after the whistle, any fisticuffs, I was willing to do that up until the referees break it up. A lot of that was instilled in from Coach Mike Martz.


“In [Mike Martz's] system, you gotta be able to run. You’d better be cerebral, you’d better be able to learn and you’d better have thick skin because he’s so demanding. You’re working with a perfectionist. If you can’t do those three things — if you’re not tough, if you’re not willing to go and block and run routes and be efficient and be quick, you will not play in his system.”

-Free agent wide receiver Torry Holt on what it takes for a wide receiver to fit into Mike Martz’s offense.

Maybe, just maybe, you've got a personal thing against Martz . . . because it's clear: ''We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said.

Are you kidding me. People say stupid shit all the time. you are a master! Martz was a component and nothing more. Vermeil built that team and don't ever forget it.!

 

[Stranger]

''Once you get used to his aggressive approach and working with him as a team, I don't think there's any better.''

 

[Blue and Gold]

Cutler hated Martz, but here is interesting factoid:

Cutler's win and loss with all other OCs = 44-50 .468
Cuntler's win and loss with Mike Martz = 17-8 .680

 

[Blue and Gold]

Are you kidding me. People say stupid crap all the time. you are a master! Martz was a component and nothing more. Vermeil built that team and don't ever forget it.!

Well, no, I am not kidding. But, that was not me saying those things. It was Vermeil, Warner, Holt, Ike. I could easily find quites from Faulk, too.

So we are clear, here is what Vermeil said and I ask, is what Vermeil said accurate? Was he in some kind of position to have the knowledge necessary to make these statements? Maybe you don't think he was, that's your right.

''We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said. ''We had other great coaches, too. But [Martz] was, to me, the real catalyst. He was the final piece of our puzzle.''

Vermeil in 2010: "We took a team to the Super Bowl. Without him we don't go."

Vermeil at Super Bowl 1999: "Mike is a great coach. We wouldn't be here without him."

Vermeil in 2006: I can't think, in my history of coaching, of any assistant who came into an NFL franchise and made the immediate impact that Mike Martz did in 1999.

 

[reggae]

Well, no, I am not kidding. But, that was not me saying those things. It was Vermeil, Warner, Holt, Ike. I could easily find quites from Faulk, too.

So we are clear, here is what Vermeil said and I ask, is what Vermeil said accurate? Was he in some kind of position to have the knowledge necessary to make these statements? Maybe you don't think he was, that's your right.

quotes? really? I can find quotes that say climate change isn't real. Yet weknow the carbonisotopes have been mapped and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that climate change is real! And, you offer me quotes. That's nice. I feel better now.I don't care about your quotes and never have. I want proof. Proof that stands the test of time. And over a career, neither your nor Martz can offer that. You know it and you always have. Yet, you continue to make the argumentfor the sake of contrarianism. But, in fact you are mistaken.

 

[Blue and Gold]

quotes? really? I can find quotes that say climate change isn't real. Yet weknow the carbonisotopes have been mapped and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that climate change is real! And, you offer me quotes. That's nice. I feel better now.I don't care about your quotes and never have. I want proof. Proof that stands the test of time. And over a career, neither your nor Martz can offer that. You know it and you always have. Yet, you continue to make the argumentfor the sake of contrarianism. But, in fact you are mistaken.

Yeah, quotes. And not only quotes, ones made by experts with first-hand knowledge. That is a high standard.

Now, you say Martz is a "putz". But other than that your points really are not clear. So, other than calling Martz a putz, what are you saying?

Are you suggesting that Vermeil is wrong when he says "'We would not win a world championship with the Rams without Mike Martz,'' Vermeil said. ''We had other great coaches, too. But [Martz] was, to me, the real catalyst. He was the final piece of our puzzle.''

Is Vermeil wrong, and if you think so, explain with "proof" how Vermeil or why Vermeil is wrong.

 

[Blue and Gold]

Bulger
28-13 .683 with Martz
13-41 .228 with everyone else

Warner
34-15 .694 with Martz
32-34 .471 with everyone else

Cuntler
17-8 .680 with Mike Martz
44-50 .468 with everyone else