Billy Devaney discusses what went wrong with Rams
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Ram Quixote
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More than that, I want Fisher to succeed this year. With many of the players from last year (including IR'd and rookies) making the difference. By that happening, particularly on offense, there would be some minor vindication for the previous regime.X said:
Last year stings worse than any season since 2002.
brokeu91
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+1Ram Quixote said:
I thought the regime deserved one more year considering all that happened the year before. Give McD an entire offseason to install his offense and the O-line to learn their schemes and I think it would have been different. Well, I do have to say I was pleased with whom they replaced them with from Fisher all the way down to the position coaches.
Thordaddy
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Young Ram said:
Yeah ,I did too,three years of Scott Linehan was enough futility , but saying Spags and Devaney did as well as COULD be done is just excuse making IMO.
In the end I think Spags was too inexperienced to handle the challenges and that Kroenke being a business man understood that there are always challenges and that the exceptional people are who a. handle them best and b. handle them well enough to produce exceptional results.
Spags was just a bargain basement solution for an org. that wasn't into spending money. He's a better coach today than when he came to St.L and if he gets some breaks may get another HC job and then if he gets some more , he'll succeed.
After the salary dump that was the Martz firing it's good to have an owner FINALLY who is prepared to hire someone good enough you have to compete for their services instead of hiring a coordinator and hoping he can multitask.
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Yeah, obviously I disagree with much of that. But ... you knew that.Thordaddy said:
As for the "bargain basement solution" quip, you know that Jeff Fisher was unavailable and Vince Lombardi was dead, right? So, that really only left the FIVE candidates that Devaney brought to Chip. The incumbent Jim Haslett, Steve Spagnuolo, Jason Garrett, Rex Ryan and Leslie Frazier. Who's the big time bank account buster that the Rams overlooked there? And Spagnuolo had other options too.
But yeah, Jeff Fisher is good enough that we had to compete for his services. Now, since everything Spagnuolo went through was just an excuse, we can go ahead and not worry about losing 8 corners, 2 QBs, 6 receivers, 2 TEs, 5 linemen and the starting RB? Because 'real head coaches' don't feel the effects of something like that, and they just pull wins out of the ambient air?
I don't buy it. Because it doesn't work that way.
... and that injury situation wasn't nearly as bad.
.
Thordaddy
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X said:
Well not knowing the exact salary demands of each of those guys it's difficult to know who had the lowest asking price, but items to consider: To some degree NO BIG NAME budget busters IN the group sort of proves the point that the truly big names like Parcells, Saban were NEVER an option due to pre set budget constraints.
As for the Fisher record 4 is twice 2 so scoffing at twice the production isn't my style and OF that 122 point differential you do know that 83 points (103-20) came in3 games 1 with Pittsburgh and 2 Indy the SB champs that year and the next,Manning and Ben at their best..
Look here is my "proof" Martz was offered Parcells money with an out for record (so that's where the coaches salary became an issue, THEN when they interviewed and tried to hire Greg Williams to follow Martz they were outbid by Washington for his services and he was only going to be a coordinator. It was widely known Linnehan was the cheapest of the lot there.
Denaney himself even alludes to the Bradford signing for record money as a change in direction.
And BTW Jerry Jones pretty much did the same with Garrett to keep him in Dallas, the Jets hired Rex (and I'm glad ).
NOW last year the Raiders NEW HC, same off season issues,starting QB played 6 games starting RB 7, one rec played all the games a TE, owner DIED and they won 8/ 4times as many.
I don't "buy" the no one could have done better, that as much as says Spags WAS the best OR coaching doesn't matter, and I don't subscribe to either of those options.
Who was it WE OUTBID for Spags services? ,cuz I'm pretty sure Garrett and Ryan thought their options were better elsewhere.
Like I said in the beginning though I rooted HARD FOR Spags even "waxed poetic" about the injuries, but after enough I'd had enough and am seriously happy we made a change for what is I think a concensus change for the better among almost ALL NFL "experts".
I just usually look back when someone sez, "Hey look at this" and I say "yeah but while we are looking back ,I see this".
I'm looking forward to seeing the second half of some games this year six years of going to sleep during the second half is enough.
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Yeah, we can go back and forth about which team did what with X circumstances, and Y couldn't do what X could do because Y didn't have a head coach like X, but it's all in vain. The truth of the matter is this. No team (or head coach of said team) does well with the kind of situation that presented itself in 2011. If 4 or 5 wins by Fisher is proof that he's the better coach, then okay. But it's still a bad season. And in the end, nobody is going to Champion his efforts after a season like that. Or, they will initially until he backs a 5 win season up with 4 wins. And then... yeah, maybe he'll have a contingent of supporters. But after that? All hell will break loose.
It should be evident enough that injuries to that extent are an impossible hurdle. 4 or 5 wins by another coach in a situation that doesn't really compare may offer you some proof of something, but it's still a losing season, and justifiably so. And injuries like that, coupled with a lockout and a change in systems, is an anomaly. That's why I really don't pay attention to comparisons in that regard.
Anyway, that's in the rear-view now. As long as Fisher doesn't have to deal with the same kind of unprecedented bullshit Spags had to deal with, this team should be much much better. And that's all we all really want anyway.
It should be evident enough that injuries to that extent are an impossible hurdle. 4 or 5 wins by another coach in a situation that doesn't really compare may offer you some proof of something, but it's still a losing season, and justifiably so. And injuries like that, coupled with a lockout and a change in systems, is an anomaly. That's why I really don't pay attention to comparisons in that regard.
Anyway, that's in the rear-view now. As long as Fisher doesn't have to deal with the same kind of unprecedented bullshit Spags had to deal with, this team should be much much better. And that's all we all really want anyway.
SunTzu.v.Camus
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X said:
Amen!
Yamahopper
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Whats done is done. Wish them both well and hope they find success. Spags and Billy D. are both class acts that deserved much better.
But I don't buy in to any of that McD stuff as a excuse. he just didn't show up at Rams park and say Hi I'm the new OC. They hired him knowing there would be a lock out and he had a whole new system to install. Poor choice. They should have stayed in the Ried WCO family tree and had continuity with the OC at least for another season.Maybe they win 5 games instead of 2 but still that might have saved them.
That winning 7 games in 2010 with the roster they had was great, but it worked against them since the div. sucked so bad that year. The win and your in game set expectations too high for what they had to work with talent wise. They changed from rebuilding to win now mode.
But I don't buy in to any of that McD stuff as a excuse. he just didn't show up at Rams park and say Hi I'm the new OC. They hired him knowing there would be a lock out and he had a whole new system to install. Poor choice. They should have stayed in the Ried WCO family tree and had continuity with the OC at least for another season.Maybe they win 5 games instead of 2 but still that might have saved them.
That winning 7 games in 2010 with the roster they had was great, but it worked against them since the div. sucked so bad that year. The win and your in game set expectations too high for what they had to work with talent wise. They changed from rebuilding to win now mode.
Thordaddy
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X said:
I vote .........forth, and hope Fisher never has to prove he could do better,even though I think he could and would have.
I like what he's done already we've gone from third oldest team in the league to one of the youngest ,here's hoping the younger roster has fewer injuries( logically they should be healthier),they are going to dial back the offense for the young QB, they've brought in a nasty O-line coach all reversals of last years "decisions".
Furures so bright I have to wear shades
Angry Ram
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Thordaddy said:
This topic turned into a debate about drafting and posted like a half page long essay (that would've gotten an F in English class) which in turn became a Devaney bash fest. Nothing to do w/ the original post.
X said:
In contrast, I will discuss any Rams past anyone wants to discuss, any time.
Cause I don't think it has anything to do with moving on or not.
Brooks, Vermeil, Martz, Linehan, Spags, Ortmeyer, Shaw, Armey, Zygmunt, Softli, Devaney, Banks, Green, Warner, Bulger, earlier Bradford seasons.
Emotions can run strong. Granted. And some people are never going to listen, ever.
But I like discussing history. Now and then interested third parties get a lot out of the discussion. And besides, why should either Homer and/or Basher extremists have the field to themselves. :mrgreen: