Bears trade for Khalil Mack

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

tempests

Hall of Fame
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
3,002
Couple of things.

AD produced similar results in two less games.

Also, I dunno what percentage of snaps Mack was doubled (and I don't mean chipped by a TE before going on a route), but AD's was something like just over 78% which is insane.

AD was tripled quite often. Mack was almost never tripled. In fact, I'd be surprised if he saw a legit triple team all year.

Mack is extraordinary, but he's no Reggie White. When White went to GB, they didn't have an amazing line and he didn't have Jerome Brown next to him and he still was a transformational talent. Heck, in his 14th year, Reggie White had 16 sacks. Mack has never had more than 15.

It's arguable that AD is the greatest DT of all time.

It's not really arguable that Mack's not even in the top 20 DEs all time.

I'm not diminishing Mack...at all. That said, he's just simply not in the same strata as AD.

Skillwise in the NFL, maybe only Aaron Rodgers is on the same level and only Brady might have a greater legacy and that's debatable once the Rams win multiple Lombardis with AD putting up HoF numbers year after year.

No, Mack doesn't put up Reggie White numbers, then again Donald doesn't have the 16, 17 sack seasons that La'Roi Glover and Warren Sapp did. It was a different era.

I'd say both Donald and Mack need to get further into their careers before assessing where they rank all time. I'd Donald is the best DT the NFL has seen since Warren Sapp. Four years in, that's as far as I'm willing to go.
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,536
Name
Mack
No, Mack doesn't put up Reggie White numbers, then again Donald doesn't have the 16, 17 sack seasons that La'Roi Glover and Warren Sapp did. It was a different era.

I'd say both Donald and Mack need to get further into their careers before assessing where they rank all time. I'd Donald is the best DT the NFL has seen since Warren Sapp. Four years in, that's as far as I'm willing to go.

Well, okay, and that's your right.

I'd counter with neither La'Roi Glover nor Warren Sapp were triple teamed like AD is.

Heck, I remember games where Sapp would go off where the opposing OC refused to even DOUBLE him. Never made sense to me, but in their time which wasn't all that long ago, there were a number of OCs who didn't believe in double teaming a guy all game. Heck, even Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White off the edge often faced one on ones most of the game. It was crazy and it's only recently that OCs are saying, "you know what? If it takes two guys to stop this disruptive player, then we just need to use two guys and figure out the rest from there"

That's what's different. Also, with the change to the "in the grasp" rule, there have been a lot of sacks the last two years that would have been sacks, but aren't now, which is honestly crap.

Can you name a game for AD after his rookie year where the PLAN wasn't to double him for the most part all game???
 

Turducken

Starter
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
566
In any good trade both teams should benefit, but I wouldn't want to be either team in this trade. Bears overpay for a moonshot at making playoffs in a stacked division. Raiders lose their best player with some draft scratch to help ease the pain. I think both teams are worse off for the foreseeable future.
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
31,283
He may be the best DT in the league, but guys like Fletcher Cox and Geno Atkins are not that far behind him.
Yeah they are. Even Warren Sapp says Donald is better than he was.
 

rams1fan

Pro Bowler
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
1,476
The way I look at this trade is the the Bears needed to move up in the first round to get one of the best defensive players in the NFL. In order to do so they add in their 2020 first rounder but get back a second rounder from Oakland. Oakland could easity end up being the worst team in the NFL so that second rounder may almost be a first rounder.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
112
jjls2Bd.jpg
 

CGI_Ram

Hamburger Connoisseur
Moderator
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
49,672
Name
Burger man
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...the-league-called-but-three-teams-were-close/

Who tried to trade for Khalil Mack? 'Half the league called,' but three teams were close

The Raiders had plenty of suitors for the defensive end, but the Jets, Packers and 49ers might have come the closest


The Chicago Bears made a massive splash on Saturday morning with their acquisition of Khalil Mack, sending two first-round picks to the Raiders in exchange for the former Defensive Player of the Year. But Chicago wasn't alone in ringing up Oakland and offering a nice package for the opportunity to give Mack record-breaking money, something Chicago would do shortly after landing the pass rusher.

The whole thing was wild, with short- and long-term implications all over the NFL landscape.

According to Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie, "more than half the league" called to inquire about Mack when it was clear that the defensive end (who will now be a 3-4 outside linebacker in Vic Fangio's scheme) was on the block and available.

Rumor was the Raiders wanted an offer of two first-round picks to even have a conversation, and that probably wasn't far off, considering what the Bears ultimately surrendered for Mack. The Raiders decided, per McKenzie via Michael Gehlken of the Las Vegas Review Journal, to try and target the team most likely to give them a high pick, or the team most likely to give them the highest pick in the 2019 NFL Draft.

Ultimately they decided that team was the Bears. From that perspective, it was a good decision. The Bears might very well be a playoff contender and end up doing something crazy, like winning the division. More than likely, they're fighting an uphill battle as a wild-card contender that has to deal with the Vikings (sick defense) and Packers (Aaron Rodgers) twice a year.

The Bears could have a really good season and still go 7-9 and give up a top-15 pick in the upcoming draft. Things could go south and the Bears could be handing over a top-10 pick to the Raiders.

Or the Bears could be great and the Raiders will be seen as a team that doesn't want to pay really good players. According to McKenzie, Oakland is still very much willing to cough up for quality talent, but there will be people who question whether it's true.

At any rate, there were other teams interested in Khalil Mack! So who might those teams be? Let's look at three teams that ultimately might have missed out on landing the superstar pass rusher and why they might have missed out.

New York Jets
We named this team as the top squad that should make a move for Mack earlier this offseason and the Jets were absolutely involved in the Mack sweepstakes -- Rich Cimini of ESPN reports they attempted to make a trade for Mack during the process. It makes total sense: the Jets have a roster on the rise, but badly need some pass-rush help.

They also have a young quarterback in Sam Darnold on a rookie deal, meaning they have a window to put their roster together. And they're loaded with cap space, too, making them an obvious landing spot for Mack. If I had to guess, the hold up here would be not wanting to surrender multiple first-round picks in a situation where they could potentially find themselves drafting with a top-10 pick over the next two years.

San Francisco 49ers
The 49ers got heavily involved in the chatter as well, GM John Lynch confirmed to the San Jose Mercury-News, going after Mack "aggressively."

"Yes, we would have been foolish not to. The guy is a spectacular player," Lynch said. "We've always said we'll exhaust every option to improve our team.

"We went aggressively but also knowing that we had to set some parameters, and we did. Somebody else landed him. We're excited about our team."

The 49ers would have been an interesting fit as well, what with the multiple former first-round picks on their defensive line already. DeForest Buckner, Arik Armstead and Solomon Thomas are already on the line -- adding Mack would have made the 49ers absolutely terrifying. Although it's also possible the 49ers didn't want to give up two actual picks, instead perhaps trying to trade one of those defensive linemen AND a future first-round pick in exchange for Mack.

San Francisco has plenty of reason for optimism, but giving up a ton of draft picks for Mack might be a problem. And it's entirely possible that the Raiders believed a) Mack in the Bay Area would be a bad look and b) the 49ers will finish with a better record than the Bears.

Green Bay Packers
A surprisingly aggressive offseason by new GM Brian Guntekunst led many to believe the Packers would be willing to pony up and try to land Mack in a trade. Those people weren't wrong!

According to Jason Wilde of the Wisconsin State Journal, the Packers did make an offer to the Raiders, but it was not one that included both of the first-round picks the Packers hold for 2019 after trading with the Saints (the Marcus Davenport deal netted them an additional first).

Instead of offering the Raiders the two firsts next year, which might have actually gotten the deal done thanks to the immediacy of the picks, the Packers offered "one of their first-rounders plus other picks" according to Wilde.

And it's possible the two first-round picks wouldn't have gotten it done either. Having three first-round picks would be extremely appealing for Oakland, but both the Packers with Mack and the Saints are expected to be good next year. Those picks could very well end up being in the bottom 10 of the draft.

For Green Bay, it's a pretty big nightmare, because instead of adding Mack to an improved defense and potentially fueling a Super Bowl run with a healthy Aaron Rodgers, the Packers are now going to face Mack twice a year, including once during Week 1 of the season.
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,536
Name
Mack
Yeah they are. Even Warren Sapp says Donald is better than he was.

Yep, it's true.

I wasn't so sure, but right before Donald signed, I started looking at some of the released analytics on AD and I was shocked.

It seemed is productivity didn't dip all that much when teams threw 2 or even 3 guys at him which is extraordinary. I mean, it didn't dip commensurate with the personnel allocation.

He routinely beats double teams where the focus of the play is to defeat him.

It's incredible.
 

Ram65

Legend
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
9,858
Could not see them trading him to the Whiners. Making a bad PR nightmare much worse.
 

PhillyRam

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
7,544
Name
Scott
Well, okay, and that's your right.

I'd counter with neither La'Roi Glover nor Warren Sapp were triple teamed like AD is.

Heck, I remember games where Sapp would go off where the opposing OC refused to even DOUBLE him. Never made sense to me, but in their time which wasn't all that long ago, there were a number of OCs who didn't believe in double teaming a guy all game. Heck, even Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White off the edge often faced one on ones most of the game. It was crazy and it's only recently that OCs are saying, "you know what? If it takes two guys to stop this disruptive player, then we just need to use two guys and figure out the rest from there"

That's what's different. Also, with the change to the "in the grasp" rule, there have been a lot of sacks the last two years that would have been sacks, but aren't now, which is honestly crap.

Can you name a game for AD after his rookie year where the PLAN wasn't to double him for the most part all game???

I also think offenses get rid of the ball quicker, and with todays rules, it's hard to cover guys for more than a few seconds... so DL's do not get much of an opportunity to get sacks.

Nowadays the teams that lead the league in sacks avg 48-53 sacks. Years ago teams would get in the 60's... I think the 85' Bears had something like 72 sacks I think.
 

tempests

Hall of Fame
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
3,002
Well, okay, and that's your right.

I'd counter with neither La'Roi Glover nor Warren Sapp were triple teamed like AD is.

Heck, I remember games where Sapp would go off where the opposing OC refused to even DOUBLE him. Never made sense to me, but in their time which wasn't all that long ago, there were a number of OCs who didn't believe in double teaming a guy all game. Heck, even Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White off the edge often faced one on ones most of the game. It was crazy and it's only recently that OCs are saying, "you know what? If it takes two guys to stop this disruptive player, then we just need to use two guys and figure out the rest from there"

That's what's different. Also, with the change to the "in the grasp" rule, there have been a lot of sacks the last two years that would have been sacks, but aren't now, which is honestly crap.

Can you name a game for AD after his rookie year where the PLAN wasn't to double him for the most part all game???

Simeon Rice probably helped take some of the heat off Sapp as well.

Yes, I would agree Donald probably faces more double teams than anybody else, but I would question that 78% figure you quoted earlier, that seems rather high. If he really is double teamed that much I would say Wade has to do a better job of freeing him up.

This isn't a complete record of his 2017 season but it does show what Donald goes up against in games. He does get his share of one on ones.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfjbdUxPS0o
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,536
Name
Mack
Simeon Rice probably helped take some of the heat off Sapp as well.

Yes, I would agree Donald probably faces more double teams than anybody else, but I would question that 78% figure you quoted earlier, that seems rather high. If he really is double teamed that much I would say Wade has to do a better job of freeing him up.

This isn't a complete record of his 2017 season but it does show what Donald goes up against in games. He does get his share of one on ones.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfjbdUxPS0o


Actually, the guy who helped Sapp the most was Booger McFarland.

I got the 78% stat from a post from this site and I apologize if I misquoted it, but I don't think so.

Part of why his highlights include so many one on ones is that when left one on one, he generally makes a play....hence the constant double teaming.
 

Legatron4

Legend
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
9,493
Name
Wes
Simeon Rice probably helped take some of the heat off Sapp as well.

Yes, I would agree Donald probably faces more double teams than anybody else, but I would question that 78% figure you quoted earlier, that seems rather high. If he really is double teamed that much I would say Wade has to do a better job of freeing him up.

This isn't a complete record of his 2017 season but it does show what Donald goes up against in games. He does get his share of one on ones.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfjbdUxPS0o

Donald wins on every single play. I’ve never seen an interior linemen dominate like that.
 

Mackeyser

Supernovas are where gold forms; the only place.
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
14,536
Name
Mack
Donald wins on every single play. I’ve never seen an interior linemen dominate like that.

Not Sapp, but John Randle was the closest, imho. Still, none of them faced the relentless scheming that AD has.
 

Loyal

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
31,283
back off flv, quit trying to blunt my outrage!