Bears trade for Khalil Mack

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Young Ram

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This trade suddenly makes a lot more sense. Mack isn't worth that.
An elite pass rusher for 2 first round picks. You don’t trade your best player for 2 unknowns. The raiders might not even get a player like Mack with those picks. Why trade a sure thing for something that is unknown? Mack gets $3 mil more guaranteed. Not that much of a difference from Donald. Don’t get me wrong. Donald >>> Mack but you don’t trade a top 3 pass rusher. You just don’t. Raiders screwed up big time.
 

jrry32

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An elite pass rusher for 2 first round picks. You don’t trade your best player for 2 unknowns. The raiders might not even get a player like Mack with those picks. Why trade a sure thing for something that is unknown? Mack gets $3 mil more guaranteed. Not that much of a difference from Donald. Don’t get me wrong. Donald >>> Mack but you don’t trade a top 3 pass rusher. You just don’t. Raiders screwed up big time.

I'm not talking about the picks. I'm talking about his contractual demands. Aaron Donald is a far better player. I wouldn't have paid Mack more than what Von Miller received because I think Von is a better player (but with the salary cap increase, giving him what Von got is reasonable). I can understand why the Raiders were forced to deal him.
 

CGI_Ram

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I can understand why the Raiders were forced to deal him.

It sure looks like they felt they needed to trade him. Either;

A) They felt the contract demands were unrealistic for his position or cap allocation

Or

B) They didn’t have the financial means

Because, even if the Raiders do well with the draft picks they acquired, it doesn’t feel like a move that strengthened their team.

Best case feels like a push, and even that would be future years not this year.
 

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Kind of disturbed about the attitude of Mack..He is not better than Aaron Donald, but needed to shyte on AD’s contract by a few million and the Bears agreed to it. There is no universe where Mack is better.

That is all.
 

tempests

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Kind of disturbed about the attitude of Mack..He is not better than Aaron Donald, but needed to shyte on AD’s contract by a few million and the Bears agreed to it. There is no universe where Mack is better.

That is all.

He's a DPOY just like Donald is.

If you look up their career sacks, forced fumbles, tackles for a loss, Donald and Mack numbers are virtually identical.
 

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He's a DPOY just like Donald is.

If you look up their career sacks, forced fumbles, tackles for a loss, Donald and Mack numbers are virtually identical.
But their impact is different. Stats don’t always tell the story, and AD is a one of a generation player, unlike Mack.

Even if you do look at numbers, Mack got his at OLB/DE and Donald got his at 3 Tech DT, which is WAY more impressive....I can’t believe that you think Mack is comparable.
 

tempests

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But their impact is different. Stats don’t always tell the story, and AD is a one of a generation player, unlike Mack.

Even if you do look at numbers, Mack got his at OLB/DE and Donald got his at 3 Tech DT, which is WAY more impressive....I can’t believe that you think Mack is comparable.

Once again, Mack is a DPOY just like Donald is. In fact he did it with the exact same numbers as Donald - 11 sacks, 5 FFs. You tell me how one defensive player of the year impacts the game less than another defensive player of the year.
 

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Once again, Mack is a DPOY just like Donald is. In fact he did it with the exact same numbers as Donald - 11 sacks, 5 FFs. You tell me how one defensive player of the year impacts the game less than another defensive player of the year.
Forget the the DPOY and use your eyes. Is it easier for a DT to get sacks than DE?
No.
Is the position Donald plays normally able to do, what Donald does regularly?
No
Would I rather have a healthy Robert Quinn before back issues over Khalil Mack?
Hell yes.(Donald is more valuable than Quinn ever was)
Are others in the NFL able to do what Mack does on the edge?
Yes.

What Donald is doing at the DT position is freaking insane. What Mack does at DE is REALLY good, but is not once-in-a-generation talent.
 

RamsSince1969

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Boy, you talk about schadenfruede satisfaction!. I actually only read half of the posts, and then I started feeling sorry for them, but fukk that!
Best comment over there: New era of excrement! Best poster name: Dummy Mcidiot. That Raider board is freaking out and I'm afraid they might riot. Close off the bridge at Ship Island or San Fran might burn too.
 

tempests

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Forget the the DPOY and use your eyes. Is it easier for a DT to get sacks than DE?
No.
Is the position Donald plays normally able to do, what Donald does regularly?
No
Would I rather have a healthy Robert Quinn before back issues over Khalil Mack?
Hell yes.(Donald is more valuable than Quinn ever was)
Are others in the NFL able to do what Mack does on the edge?
Yes.

What Donald is doing at the DT position is freaking insane. What Mack does at DE is REALLY good, but is not once-in-a-generation talent.

Mack was a once in a generation for the Raiders. They haven't had a LOS player that dominant since Howie Long.

It's not easier for Mack because of the position he plays. Who did the Faiders have to take pressure off of him. To draw those double teams away? Donald has Brockers, Quinn, now Suh. Mack never had that supporting cast. Bruce Irvin and that's it. In fact Mack accounted for 38% of his teams sacks the last three seasons.
 

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Mack was a once in a generation for the Raiders. They haven't had a LOS player that dominant since Howie Long.

It's not easier for Mack because of the position he plays. Who did the Faiders have to take pressure off of him. To draw those double teams away? Donald has Brockers, Quinn, now Suh. Mack never had that supporting cast. Bruce Irvin and that's it. In fact Mack accounted for 38% of his teams sacks the last three seasons.
Donald isn’t only a once in a generation for the Rams, he’s a once in a generation player for the NFL. I see something transcendent about AD, and you don’t. To me Mack is a great player, but AD is the Best 3 Tech DT of all time.
 

1maGoh

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Best comment over there: New era of excrement! Best poster name: Dummy Mcidiot. That Raider board is freaking out and I'm afraid they might riot. Close off the bridge at Ship Island or San Fran might burn too.
On second thought, don't close that bridge.
 

Mackeyser

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I sort of agree with both of you.

What Mack did is damn impressive. He didn't just win the DPOY in 2016, he was first team All Pro at TWO positions, uniquely. That had never happened before. And part of the reason why Mack hasn't had more impact is that the rest of that line isn't very good. So, yes, he's an extraordinarily disruptive player even if he didn't vie for the sack title. That said, he's not a transformational, generational talent like Lawrence Taylor was.

It's inarguable that pressure from the inside is significantly harder to account for than from the edge. There are more players on the interior to prevent pressure and as such, it's likely that very good players will be double or triple teamed. Iirc, AD was double or triple-teamed on just shy of 80% of the snaps he took. That's an obscenely high number. And even with that, he produced at the level he did and that was in 14 games. It's clear that AD is very much a transformational, generational talent that is better than HoF player from the Vikings, John Randle...which is truly saying something.

I stated before either signed that there was no way AD would end up getting more money for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that even as AD is a generational player, his position doesn't garner nearly as much money as DE does. And we see that even more starkly with Earl Thomas who won't earn half of what AD earns and he's also a first ballot HoFer without question in my mind. I would say transformational in that he made a group of very good players into an all time great group.

And honestly, straight up, I'd take Earl Thomas over Khalil Mack every day.

But DE's are paid more (again, thanks to Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White and all of the disruptive DEs who followed) while there haven't been nearly as many DTs of the same caliber. They're almost the exception to the rule which means teams just don't budget for a DT to make that kind of money.
 

RamFan503

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Mack was a once in a generation for the Raiders. They haven't had a LOS player that dominant since Howie Long.

It's not easier for Mack because of the position he plays. Who did the Faiders have to take pressure off of him. To draw those double teams away? Donald has Brockers, Quinn, now Suh. Mack never had that supporting cast. Bruce Irvin and that's it. In fact Mack accounted for 38% of his teams sacks the last three seasons.
You’re kidding - right? You’re really comparing the position for sacks and calling them equal? That DTs routinely match the production of DEs? That getting to the QB is the same whether playing inside or out?

I agree that Mack is a very good player on his team. AD is a great player on ANY team. Mack plays a more lucrative position and was being shopped to other teams, thus he got paid more.
 

Mackeyser

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Mack was a once in a generation for the Raiders. They haven't had a LOS player that dominant since Howie Long.

It's not easier for Mack because of the position he plays. Who did the Faiders have to take pressure off of him. To draw those double teams away? Donald has Brockers, Quinn, now Suh. Mack never had that supporting cast. Bruce Irvin and that's it. In fact Mack accounted for 38% of his teams sacks the last three seasons.

Couple of things.

AD produced similar results in two less games.

Also, I dunno what percentage of snaps Mack was doubled (and I don't mean chipped by a TE before going on a route), but AD's was something like just over 78% which is insane.

AD was tripled quite often. Mack was almost never tripled. In fact, I'd be surprised if he saw a legit triple team all year.

Mack is extraordinary, but he's no Reggie White. When White went to GB, they didn't have an amazing line and he didn't have Jerome Brown next to him and he still was a transformational talent. Heck, in his 14th year, Reggie White had 16 sacks. Mack has never had more than 15.

It's arguable that AD is the greatest DT of all time.

It's not really arguable that Mack's not even in the top 20 DEs all time.

I'm not diminishing Mack...at all. That said, he's just simply not in the same strata as AD.

Skillwise in the NFL, maybe only Aaron Rodgers is on the same level and only Brady might have a greater legacy and that's debatable once the Rams win multiple Lombardis with AD putting up HoF numbers year after year.
 

RamFan503

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All this said, I’m stoked that Mack got paid more. It means our front office knows their business and worked their position. The Bears seemingly threw huge money and huge draft capital at a guy they cherished. I’m guessing it doesn’t work out quite like they hope. But then hopes don’t generally go as well as PLANS.
 

tempests

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Donald isn’t only a once in a generation for the Rams, he’s a once in a generation player for the NFL. I see something transcendent about AD, and you don’t. To me Mack is a great player, but AD is the Best 3 Tech DT of all time.

He may be the best DT in the league, but guys like Fletcher Cox and Geno Atkins are not that far behind him.
 

Mackeyser

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He may be the best DT in the league, but guys like Fletcher Cox and Geno Atkins are not that far behind him.

If you really drill into the numbers including things like how often a player was triple teamed and what was the result, total number of disruptions, TFL and other metrics, let alone how the player affects the OC's game plan...then yes, AD is enough ahead that he's on another level.

Otherwise, there'd be a legit argument that Cincinnati got a steal with Atkins getting 90% of AD for 50% of the money.

That's not exactly how it works....in large part because even if that 90% were true, there's no linear correlation between that percentage and production.

Also, if you look at certain game situations where the Rams just have to have a game saving sack, I dunno that anyone has even close to as many as AD.

The bigger the moment, the bigger AD plays (he balled out in the ATL game, but with Brockers out, they just ran down our throats and that very good OL was able to Tee off on AD).