Baseball is Finally Here!!!

[Elmgrovegnome]

I would like this post 1,000 times if possible.
Juice is mostly used in baseball for recovery. The daily grind and little nagging injuries do more to diminish performance than anything else in baseball, especially as a player ages.
There would be NO reason for a pitcher to take anything other than recovery.
There are other very good and effective ways to help pitchers recover. They take focus and work of course and need to be embraced by the franchise.
There are also very effective and non drug related ways to recover lost velocity etc for a pitcher, but, it takes focused work and a little time.
You are 100% right in that roids are used in baseball for recovery almost exclusively.

Like it all you want, it doesn't make it right. Sure pitchers used roids to stay healthy but if you think for a millisecond that it didn't put an extra couple miles an hour on a fast ball or a bit more movement on a slider you are choosing to ignore reality. Do you really believe Clemens could continue to throw that well into his thirties? He actually got better and more dominant at one point , at a time when pitchers have to reinvent themselves by pitching with more finesse.

But to say the added strength from Steroids for Homerun hitters had nothing to do with homer totals is absurd, which memento suggests. Bat speed and loft are not all that makes a homer. Power is a necessity and Roids give you power. There isn't anyone hitting 70 homers anymore when it was once a common event.

 

[fearsomefour]

No one is juicing like they were 15-20 years ago. Guys like McGwire, Sosa, Gant, Canseco etc. couldn't swing without ripping their jerseys they were so huge. I don't know that it helped them hit homeruns but it certainly helped them hit the ball further. They were fun to watch. I guess it is impractical to put on all that muscle these days. Chicks may not dig the long ball as much. You are correct about it being used to help with recovery.

The most common performance enhancing drugs ballplayers are using is Adderol these days. It is suspicious that the percentage of professional baseball players with ADHD is much higher than the general population.

Good point.
I read a story about the percentage of MLB pitchers on Adderol and it was insane....like 20 times the general population. Side effect of the job or legal cheating?....Im going with legal cheating.

 

[fearsomefour]

Like it all you want, it doesn't make it right. Sure pitchers used roids to stay healthy but if you think for a millisecond that it didn't put an extra couple miles an hour on a fast ball or a bit more movement on a slider you are choosing to ignore reality. Do you really believe Clemens could continue to throw that well into his thirties? He actually got better and more dominant at one point , at a time when pitchers have to reinvent themselves by pitching with more finesse.

But to say the added strength from Steroids for Homerun hitters had nothing to do with homer totals is absurd, which memento suggests. Bat speed and loft are not all that makes a homer. Power is a necessity and Roids give you power. There isn't anyone hitting 70 homers anymore when it was once a common event.

I don't think it is right....but it is reality in all sports. If sports like tennis, MMA, boxing and our dear ol NFL had real and really random testing I am willing to bet it would be tough to have any fight, event or game happen with all the suspensions.
I have no doubt the HR hitters were aided with their power number by using, otherwise they would not have used to the degree they did. Pitching is a little different animal. It is a power movement for sure and there can be some benefit to juicing. But, no one is going from an 86 MPH fastball to a 94 MPH fastball because they are on roids. For an older player like Clemons being able to recover quickly and more completely because of a substance will certainly help him maintain his fast ball game to game and month to month.
There are plenty of ways a pitcher can get back lost FB velocity if they are willing to do the work. Scott Kazmir is a perfect example.

 

[Sum1]

Yeah that Derek Jeter was quite the power hitter. All of those inside out hits over the second basemans head take immense strength.

You realize there are many benefits to steroids beyond power, right? One of the benefits of steroids is the ability to heal faster and prolong a career.

Also, I do not suggest that Jeter took steroids. I am simply saying that accusing one player of the same era of steroids but not the other with absolutely no evidence to suggest such is ignorant.


Pujols body is not some modern marvel. He is/was in great shape...but he was never some muscle bound gorilla. He has had some incredible seasons as far as HRs, but he never once topped 50. There are MLB players that have been caught taking PEDs that aren't huge guys. Not to mention, there has been enough guys associated with the Cardinals that have been popped that don't you think a player as successful as Pujols would have been tested time after time by now?

Here are a couple pictures...the one on the left, his rookie year. The right, 2014...hardly much of a change in his physique. So for that argument I don't see it... Unless of course you believe he's been on steroids since he was a teenager.

 

[Memento]

I wouldn't call Petitte scum, there are many more sleezier characters out their. He reluctantly decided to go the HGH route and never was comfortable with the decision. He put himself into a situation that he was I'll equipt to handle because he isn't naturally the devious sort. For others lying comes much easier. He lied and his conscience got the best of him and came clean. All of those guys lied at first and lied for years until they had no choice. Besides using HGH to hasten recovery isn't nearly as egregious as using steroids to steal homerun records.

If you still believe Strength has nothing to do with homers search for pictures of Bonds before and after his season homerun totals drastically changed. And also just observe the current homerun leading stats now that the league has really cracked down on PEDS.

Dude, it's not just PEDs. Rules have been catered to the pitchers since 2011. Better pitches, more heat, bigger strike-zone. That's why you're seeing power numbers go down.

As for Pettitte, how do you know that he "reluctantly" went down that route? He got popped with the Astros just after he signed that contract. And he lied for three years about it. Face it: he's just as big of scum as Bonds and Clemens and McGwire and Sosa were.

And Giambi came clean the moment before he got caught. He was demonized for it. So not all of them lied.

 

[IowaRam]

Game 3

Top of the 4th

The Twins have been out scored 0 -18

 

[Memento]

Game 3

Top of the 4th

The Twins have been out scored 0 -18

And that is exactly why they should have at least kept Miguel Sano on the roster.

 

[RAMSinLA]

GO DODGERS!!!!!!!

 

[fearsomefour]

You realize there are many benefits to steroids beyond power, right? One of the benefits of steroids is the ability to heal faster and prolong a career.

Also, I do not suggest that Jeter took steroids. I am simply saying that accusing one player of the same era of steroids but not the other with absolutely no evidence to suggest such is ignorant.


Pujols body is not some modern marvel. He is/was in great shape...but he was never some muscle bound gorilla. He has had some incredible seasons as far as HRs, but he never once topped 50. There are MLB players that have been caught taking PEDs that aren't huge guys. Not to mention, there has been enough guys associated with the Cardinals that have been popped that don't you think a player as successful as Pujols would have been tested time after time by now?

Here are a couple pictures...the one on the left, his rookie year. The right, 2014...hardly much of a change in his physique. So for that argument I don't see it... Unless of course you believe he's been on steroids since he was a teenager.

I hate it when people use picture to try to make a point about juicing or not juicing.
These are pro athletes with access to trainers, lifting coaches, dietitians and therapists.
A guy could dedicate 2 hours a day to lifting eat to gain mass and show big differences quickly. Pictures don't prove or disprove anything.

 

[snackdaddy]

Like it all you want, it doesn't make it right. Sure pitchers used roids to stay healthy but if you think for a millisecond that it didn't put an extra couple miles an hour on a fast ball or a bit more movement on a slider you are choosing to ignore reality. Do you really believe Clemens could continue to throw that well into his thirties? He actually got better and more dominant at one point , at a time when pitchers have to reinvent themselves by pitching with more finesse.

But to say the added strength from Steroids for Homerun hitters had nothing to do with homer totals is absurd, which memento suggests. Bat speed and loft are not all that makes a homer. Power is a necessity and Roids give you power. There isn't anyone hitting 70 homers anymore when it was once a common event.

I used to pitch for quite a few years. It was fastpitch softball which is a different delivery, but its still all about arm strength. I never tried steroids, but one winter I hit the weights hard. Presses, leg squats. Everything geared to the muscles I used. I came back in spring much stronger. I had great stamina, especially for the long practices. I felt good.

But one thing I didn't have was extra velocity. I thought I would be throwing harder, but I really wasn't. The only thing I noticed was not wearing down as soon. In softball you gotta pitch 3 or 4 games in a tournament and I felt like I was still throwing hard in the 3rd game. But it didn't increase my velocity, which wasn't bad to begin with. It just gave me more endurance. I just wanted to be more dominant and I thought the weights would do that.

 

[Memento]

I used to pitch for quite a few years. It was fastpitch softball which is a different delivery, but its still all about arm strength. I never tried steroids, but one winter I hit the weights hard. Presses, leg squats. Everything geared to the muscles I used. I came back in spring much stronger. I had great stamina, especially for the long practices. I felt good.

But one thing I didn't have was extra velocity. I thought I would be throwing harder, but I really wasn't. The only thing I noticed was not wearing down as soon. In softball you gotta pitch 3 or 4 games in a tournament and I felt like I was still throwing hard in the 3rd game. But it didn't increase my velocity, which wasn't bad to begin with. It just gave me more endurance. I just wanted to be more dominant and I thought the weights would do that.

Right. It's all about arm strength and mechanics. You can increase your velocity up a tick if you improve your pitching mechanics; that's what a lot of the Cards pitchers have done. But you can't teach arm strength; you either have it or you don't.

 

[fearsomefour]

Right. It's all about arm strength and mechanics. You can increase your velocity up a tick if you improve your pitching mechanics; that's what a lot of the Cards pitchers have done. But you can't teach arm strength; you either have it or you don't.

You can teach velocity....in the process of doing that now with a couple of college guys.
Mechanics are certainly a big part of that (a part of staying healthy too). Depends what arm strength means. Lifting weights to develop the arm, chest ect. will not have a direct effect on velocity, but, any velocity development program has a lot of lifting as a part of it.

 

[Memento]

Happy flight! Happy flight! Cards take the series against the Reds 2-1. I'm not going to lie; their bullpen gave me a scare, but we got the wins. That's all that matters.

 

[Leuzer]

ROYALS 7-0!

 

[Memento]

Not Cardinals related...but the Cubs are a team that others should be afraid of. Bryant, Russell, and Baez all should be up and producing in the majors soon (Baez is down in Triple-A and on bereavement leave because of his sister's death at twenty-one), Albert Almora and Kyle Schwarber should make a good outfield along with Jorge Soler. They already have Rizzo. They could deal Castro for a top catching prospect and pitching help. They even have a few top international prospects in Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez.

Honestly, it's frightening because they have yet another top ten pick this year. They could very well be competitive for a very long time.

 

[Memento]

Speaking of prospects, I'd like to count the Cardinals top twenty (in my humble opinion):

1. Alex Reyes, RHP. (Unhittable curve mixed with mid-to-upper nineties sinking fastball and improving changeup.)
2. Marco Gonzales, LHP. (Plus changeup - the best in the system - and control makes his stuff play up better than it is.)
3. Rob Kaminsky, LHP. (Best curveball in the system with a 94 mph fastball and decent changeup.)
4. Jack Flaherty, RHP. (Polished high school pitcher with four potential above-average pitches.)
5. Magneuris Sierra, OF. (Gets comparisons from Carlos Gonzalez to Oscar Taveras. Already had a cup of coffee in spring training.)
6. Edmundo Sosa, SS. (Good hitter, should get stronger as he matures. Good enough defensively to stick at shortstop.)
7. Carson Kelly, C (Raw power, plus arm, and Matheny and Molina have raved about him. Catcher of the future without a doubt.)
8. Stephen Piscotty, OF/1B. (Plus hit tool, plus arm, average power...so far. Is improving in that regard.)
9. Malik Collymore, 2B. (Power, hit, speed are all potentially plus. Fielding needs improvement.)
10. Tim Cooney, LHP. (Polished pitcher already in Triple-A. Not overpowering stuff, but best command in system.)
11. Sam Tuivailala, RHP. (Plus-plus fastball mixed with average curveball. Future closer if he figures out control.)
12. Breyvic Valera, INF/OF. (Super utility player with plus hit tool. No power at all.)
13. Jacob Wilson, INF. (Could be fantastic hitting bench player. Above-average potential in everything except run.)
14. Ronnie Williams, RHP. (Plus fastball already, consistently hitting 96-97. Needs to improve secondary stuff and control.)
15. Frederis Parra, RHP. (Three potential plus pitches plus control. Needs more movement on fastball and changeup.)
16. Vaughn Bryan, OF. (Very toolsy switch-hitting outfielder. Should move up rankings.)
17. Aledmys Diaz, SS/2B. (Cuban import has more power than expected. Hit tool was less than expected.)
18. Bryan Dobzanski, RHP. (Big high-school right-hander with projectable athleticism. Needs a lot of time.)
19. Rowan Wick, OF. (Huge power and arm. Needs more plate discipline.)
20. Mitch Harris, RHP. (Older prospect who spent time in the Navy. Looks like a good option to call up for the pen immediately.)

 

[Athos]

Cardinals should have Randy Choke clear out his locker already.

Tired of that sad sack not doing his job.

 

[Memento]

Cardinals should have Randy Choke clear out his locker already.

Tired of that sad sack not doing his job.

Agreed. Bring up Tim Cooney already.

At least the Cards won. Heyward with a homer and a spectacular catch. Sign this man, Mo!

 

[snackdaddy]

Good start for the Dodgers. I know its way early, but these games count the same as in September. And its especially nice to see the Giants struggle. :banana::snicker:

 

[Memento]

Holy shit, I just saw Lawrie's slide into Escobar. The Royals are absolutely in the right to try to plunk that little punk as many times as they can. He can try to justify it as "playing hard", but that was late as hell (he didn't slide until he had even gotten to the bag), and he had his spikes up at Escobar's knee. This was absolutely intentional, and the Royals are absolutely in the right to plunk that little shit.

Not to mention that he lied about apologizing to Escobar because he said that Escobar replied in Spanish.