Baseball is Finally Here!!!

[LazyWinker]

Padres fan here, just stoked to have the slightest glimmer of hope for the year, been a LONG time since I could say that. Preller has some balls on him, kind of reminds me of Snead...

I'm pretty sure the Padres won the Kimbrel trade.

 

[Sum1]

If I had to bet, I would bet that Pujols did. ARod, McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Hernandez, Manny, Clemmons, Big Pappi. None should make the record books IMO. Just another reason to respect players like Jeter, or anyone that resisted. Think of the temptation to do it......records, huge contracts, fame. I have heard the argument that people don't blame them because of the money they got from it. As a guy who has struggled with health issues most of his life, I put more of a value on my body than most. I could never advocate risking my health for wealth. Steroids are not good for the body.

To assume Pujols did and Jeter didn't just because is quite laughable really.

 

[Memento]

Fuck Lynn. You goddamned idiot; you should've never thrown it over to first with fucking Anthony Rizzo at the bag. Way to cost us the game completely.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

To assume Pujols did and Jeter didn't just because is quite laughable really.

Yeah that Derek Jeter was quite the power hitter. All of those inside out hits over the second basemans head take immense strength.

 

[Memento]

Yeah that Derek Jeter was quite the power hitter. All of those inside out hits over the second basemans head take immense strength.

I'm sorry...why do you give the benefit of the doubt to Jeter and say that Pujols did it because he's bigger than Jeter? Jeter and Pujols have the exact same number of positive tests. Zero. Neither of them appeared on the Mitchell report. And Pujols always had the raw power. Steroids may increase your strength, but they don't help you hit home runs. You still have to have the bat speed, the hand-eye coordination, and a specific way to swing the bat in order to generate loft - and therefore power. And like I said, Pujols was always a power hitter in high school because he has elite bat speed, elite hand-eye coordination, and a swing that generates loft on the ball. Steroids don't help you with any of that; you either have it or you don't.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm sorry...why do you give the benefit of the doubt to Jeter and say that Pujols did it because he's bigger than Jeter? Jeter and Pujols have the exact same number of positive tests. Zero. Neither of them appeared on the Mitchell report. And Pujols always had the raw power. Steroids may increase your strength, but they don't help you hit home runs. You still have to have the bat speed, the hand-eye coordination, and a specific way to swing the bat in order to generate loft - and therefore power. And like I said, Pujols was always a power hitter in high school because he has elite bat speed, elite hand-eye coordination, and a swing that generates loft on the ball. Steroids don't help you with any of that; you either have it or you don't.

So steroids didn't help Bonds, ARod, or McGwire hit home runs either? I guess they took them for recovery only.

 

[Memento]

So steroids didn't help Bonds, ARod, or McGwire hit home runs either? I guess they took them for recovery only.

Nope. They all had the power. A-Rod definitely took them for recovery and ego (BioGenesis dealt with recovery). Same with Bonds. McGwire and Sosa? They didn't need them either. Nobody takes steroids for strength alone unless they're either ignorant about what they really do or if they're only interested in becoming like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

There's always recovery aids. Most of the newer ones don't focus just on muscles; there's other ones to speed up the time of recovery for the muscles getting broken down.

You can be as strong as you want, but if you can't catch up to a fastball, hit the breaking stuff, or if you're a slap-hitter, you're not suddenly going to be driving the ball great distances. More likely, you're going to end up with strikeout after strikeout.

Wonder why you're seeing more and more pitchers take stuff? They can't handle the stress that they're putting on their arms and pitching shoulders. You're seeing more and more Tommy Johns earlier than they've ever been before. The point is that pitchers can turn back the clock ten years with certain steroids. It's not about power; you either have it or you don't. They take it to reduce recovery times. You saw all of those guys that I mentioned get injured a ton.

 

[Memento]

Fuck Bonds and Clemens.

 

[Memento]

Get a MadBum shirt.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Nope. They all had the power. A-Rod definitely took them for recovery and ego (BioGenesis dealt with recovery). Same with Bonds. McGwire and Sosa? They didn't need them either. Nobody takes steroids for strength alone unless they're either ignorant about what they really do or if they're only interested in becoming like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

There's always recovery aids. Most of the newer ones don't focus just on muscles; there's other ones to speed up the time of recovery for the muscles getting broken down.

You can be as strong as you want, but if you can't catch up to a fastball, hit the breaking stuff, or if you're a slap-hitter, you're not suddenly going to be driving the ball great distances. More likely, you're going to end up with strikeout after strikeout.

Wonder why you're seeing more and more pitchers take stuff? They can't handle the stress that they're putting on their arms and pitching shoulders. You're seeing more and more Tommy Johns earlier than they've ever been before. The point is that pitchers can turn back the clock ten years with certain steroids. It's not about power; you either have it or you don't. They take it to reduce recovery times. You saw all of those guys that I mentioned get injured a ton.

I guess we just have to disagree. I know first hand the affects of steroids. I don't think you fully understand the affects. You need to do more research.

 

[Memento]

I guess we just have to disagree. I know first hand the affects of steroids. I don't think you fully understand the affects. You need to do more research.

Again, there is no drug on this earth that is going to help you hit a 99 mph fastball or be able to barrel up Waino's 12-6 curve. You either can or you can't.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Jeter hit a few home runs every year. Most all major leaguers have the bat speed to hit home runs, but very few have the strength to hit the moon shots like McGwire, or to hit more of them than average. Steroids speed up recovery AND increase muscle mass and strength if you train to do so. Sprinters take them to increase leg strength which equals more speed. It amplifies the abilities that you train in. Steroids do not turn you into a muscle bound freak unless you lift to become a muscle bound freak. If you have a guy who has the hand eye coordination to hit .300 and 27 homers and give him roids his hand eye coordination is the same but more of the long fly balls become Homeruns because the ball is hit harder. So the homer totals increase. They consistently hit the ball harder because they are stronger.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

For all of you guys that were offended by what I said, here is why I said it. I was a diehard baseball fan. I never missed a Yankees game. If it was not on TV I listened to a very scratchy AM radio broadcast. I remember the juiced ball in 87' and increased homer levels, so when guys like Aroid, Sosa, etc started hitting Homeruns numbering in the 50s I figured it was the ball and advancements in training, coupled with football sized guys playing baseball. But I found out the truth, like everyone else with the bash brothers. Then others followed. I still watched for a few years but baseball faded for me as the number of exposed users increased. Those guys ruined the game for me.

So I am a bit jaded to start with, so after wanting to believe that they weren't using roids, back in the mid 90s, I now take the opposite position. If some player is hitting more homers than the rest of the league, then I am assuming he is juicing. And if a guy was hitting homers like Pujols and the numbers suddenly go down then I am going to assume he was juicing and then went off the juice.

I get it that you are all Cardinal homers and don't want to believe that your hero ever juiced because he was a Cardinal through and through. I was in the same boat. However it was easier for me to accept most of it because I never liked Clemens, ARod and Giambi. I didn't like the acquisitions. But when Pettite was on the list for HGH I was crushed. Because he was a homegrown Yankee and part of the core that brought them back to prominence.

Now I will never believe that a player was juicing if he only averaged 10 - 15 homers a year. There is nothing out of the ordinary there. 50+ homers is out of the ordinary and was not questioned when the greatest home run hitter of all time was doing it, when nobody else was because steroids didn't exist then, Ditto hen Aaron did it. However, for any player that played in the steroid era and hit those types of home run totals, their accomplishments will always be viewed with a suspicious eye by all but a few diehard fans.

 

[LazyWinker]

I think we all knew they were juicing and just didn't want to admit it because we adored those guys. I'm pretty sure the MLB knew it too. I think the MLB's punishment should be electing some of those guys to the Hall of Fame. Imagine how funny it would be if Jose Canseco was in the Hall of Fame and Pete Rose wasn't. Pete would be irate!!!!! I don't quite understand why Pete Rose constantly tries to get his life time ban lifted. He doesn't have it too bad right now. Everyone knows his played a Hall of Fame Career and the city of Cincinnati loves him unconditionally. What's a nice way of saying Pete Rose is a jerk? Well Pete Rose is a jerk and the city of Cincinnati still adores him.

I imagine Andy Petitte will be elected to the Hall of Fame even though he's tested positive for PED's. I think eventually things will loosen up. I doubt Bonds and Clemens are ever elected though because they are jerks.

 

[fearsomefour]

Nope. They all had the power. A-Rod definitely took them for recovery and ego (BioGenesis dealt with recovery). Same with Bonds. McGwire and Sosa? They didn't need them either. Nobody takes steroids for strength alone unless they're either ignorant about what they really do or if they're only interested in becoming like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

There's always recovery aids. Most of the newer ones don't focus just on muscles; there's other ones to speed up the time of recovery for the muscles getting broken down.

You can be as strong as you want, but if you can't catch up to a fastball, hit the breaking stuff, or if you're a slap-hitter, you're not suddenly going to be driving the ball great distances. More likely, you're going to end up with strikeout after strikeout.

Wonder why you're seeing more and more pitchers take stuff? They can't handle the stress that they're putting on their arms and pitching shoulders. You're seeing more and more Tommy Johns earlier than they've ever been before. The point is that pitchers can turn back the clock ten years with certain steroids. It's not about power; you either have it or you don't. They take it to reduce recovery times. You saw all of those guys that I mentioned get injured a ton.

I would like this post 1,000 times if possible.
Juice is mostly used in baseball for recovery. The daily grind and little nagging injuries do more to diminish performance than anything else in baseball, especially as a player ages.
There would be NO reason for a pitcher to take anything other than recovery.
There are other very good and effective ways to help pitchers recover. They take focus and work of course and need to be embraced by the franchise.
There are also very effective and non drug related ways to recover lost velocity etc for a pitcher, but, it takes focused work and a little time.
You are 100% right in that roids are used in baseball for recovery almost exclusively.

 

[LazyWinker]

I would like this post 1,000 times if possible.
Juice is mostly used in baseball for recovery. The daily grind and little nagging injuries do more to diminish performance than anything else in baseball, especially as a player ages.
There would be NO reason for a pitcher to take anything other than recovery.
There are other very good and effective ways to help pitchers recover. They take focus and work of course and need to be embraced by the franchise.
There are also very effective and non drug related ways to recover lost velocity etc for a pitcher, but, it takes focused work and a little time.
You are 100% right in that roids are used in baseball for recovery almost exclusively.

No one is juicing like they were 15-20 years ago. Guys like McGwire, Sosa, Gant, Canseco etc. couldn't swing without ripping their jerseys they were so huge. I don't know that it helped them hit homeruns but it certainly helped them hit the ball further. They were fun to watch. I guess it is impractical to put on all that muscle these days. Chicks may not dig the long ball as much. You are correct about it being used to help with recovery.

The most common performance enhancing drugs ballplayers are using is Adderol these days. It is suspicious that the percentage of professional baseball players with ADHD is much higher than the general population.

 

[Memento]

For all of you guys that were offended by what I said, here is why I said it. I was a diehard baseball fan. I never missed a Yankees game. If it was not on TV I listened to a very scratchy AM radio broadcast. I remember the juiced ball in 87' and increased homer levels, so when guys like Aroid, Sosa, etc started hitting Homeruns numbering in the 50s I figured it was the ball and advancements in training, coupled with football sized guys playing baseball. But I found out the truth, like everyone else with the bash brothers. Then others followed. I still watched for a few years but baseball faded for me as the number of exposed users increased. Those guys ruined the game for me.

So I am a bit jaded to start with, so after wanting to believe that they weren't using roids, back in the mid 90s, I now take the opposite position. If some player is hitting more homers than the rest of the league, then I am assuming he is juicing. And if a guy was hitting homers like Pujols and the numbers suddenly go down then I am going to assume he was juicing and then went off the juice.

I get it that you are all Cardinal homers and don't want to believe that your hero ever juiced because he was a Cardinal through and through. I was in the same boat. However it was easier for me to accept most of it because I never liked Clemens, ARod and Giambi. I didn't like the acquisitions. But when Pettite was on the list for HGH I was crushed. Because he was a homegrown Yankee and part of the core that brought them back to prominence.

Now I will never believe that a player was juicing if he only averaged 10 - 15 homers a year. There is nothing out of the ordinary there. 50+ homers is out of the ordinary and was not questioned when the greatest home run hitter of all time was doing it, when nobody else was because steroids didn't exist then, Ditto hen Aaron did it. However, for any player that played in the steroid era and hit those types of home run totals, their accomplishments will always be viewed with a suspicious eye by all but a few diehard fans.

And why is it so hard to believe that Jeter might have taken HGH just because he only averaged ten/fifteen home runs-per-year? I get that you are/were a Yankees fan, but there were plenty of players who weren't home run hitters at all who were taking HGH purely to help their muscles recover during the long grind of the season. And Pettitte will always be scum to me because he lied at first and only told the truth after he had gotten a huge payday from the Astros and the Yankees. And then he testified against Clemens for more money. At least Giambi told the truth from the beginning. At least Canseco, as big of a pile of shit he is, hasn't falsely accused anyone.

And the thing about Pujols? His numbers didn't suddenly go down. They followed a set path: when he turned thirty-one, they went into decline, much like any other player in their thirties, much like Ruth and Aaron. That's because the bat speed begins to go when you get older. Gets harder to catch up to those fastballs. He still crushes breaking stuff because he has insane hand-eye coordination; it's just harder to turn on a mid-to-high nineties fastball with life and movement.

Now, I don't believe that either Jeter or Pujols took PEDs. They've never shown up in any reports, and they've never failed a test. That's enough for me because MLB has the most stringent testing in all of team sports. It doesn't stop idiots from trying, but as more and more of them have gotten caught and guys like Jeter and Pujols have stayed clean.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

And why is it so hard to believe that Jeter might have taken HGH just because he only averaged ten/fifteen home runs-per-year? I get that you are/were a Yankees fan, but there were plenty of players who weren't home run hitters at all who were taking HGH purely to help their muscles recover during the long grind of the season. And Pettitte will always be scum to me because he lied at first and only told the truth after he had gotten a huge payday from the Astros and the Yankees. And then he testified against Clemens for more money. At least Giambi told the truth from the beginning. At least Canseco, as big of a pile of crap he is, hasn't falsely accused anyone.

And the thing about Pujols? His numbers didn't suddenly go down. They followed a set path: when he turned thirty-one, they went into decline, much like any other player in their thirties, much like Ruth and Aaron. That's because the bat speed begins to go when you get older. Gets harder to catch up to those fastballs. He still crushes breaking stuff because he has insane hand-eye coordination; it's just harder to turn on a mid-to-high nineties fastball with life and movement.

Now, I don't believe that either Jeter or Pujols took PEDs. They've never shown up in any reports, and they've never failed a test. That's enough for me because MLB has the most stringent testing in all of team sports. It doesn't stop idiots from trying, but as more and more of them have gotten caught and guys like Jeter and Pujols have stayed clean.

I wouldn't call Petitte scum, there are many more sleezier characters out their. He reluctantly decided to go the HGH route and never was comfortable with the decision. He put himself into a situation that he was I'll equipt to handle because he isn't naturally the devious sort. For others lying comes much easier. He lied and his conscience got the best of him and came clean. All of those guys lied at first and lied for years until they had no choice. Besides using HGH to hasten recovery isn't nearly as egregious as using steroids to steal homerun records.

If you still believe Strength has nothing to do with homers search for pictures of Bonds before and after his season homerun totals drastically changed. And also just observe the current homerun leading stats now that the league has really cracked down on PEDS.