Another Bradford Article!

[FRO]

Yep. Just like Warner made the difference with the GSOT.
The defense was already pretty darned good. And a good offense makes the defense job a heck of a lot easier
And his added dimension on offense helped
Lynch had a darned good year in 2011, but had no help

Warner helped. As did a healthy Bruce, Holt, Timmerman, oh yeah and probably out best player Faulk.

Like Warner, Wilson helps but he isn't the only reason.

 

[dieterbrock]

Warner helped. As did a healthy Bruce, Holt, Timmerman, oh yeah and probably out best player Faulk.

Like Warner, Wilson helps but he isn't the only reason.

No but the team wasnt the same with Bulger or Green even though each had fancy numbers, Warner was the difference

Wilson is a special talent and the Hawks dont win without him. Plain and simple.
I think Bradford can be a special QB too, and I think he will show that next season. But the difference is that one has done it, and the other we hope (and expect) can

 

[ED_29]

You sure about that? :shades:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariDa00.htm

yep

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...sets-record-for-most-wins-through-two-seasons

 

[-X-]

yep

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...sets-record-for-most-wins-through-two-seasons

You're right. I forgot Marino didn't play the whole first year. The team (Miami) had 28 wins in Marino's first two years.

 

[ED_29]

No but the team wasnt the same with Bulger or Green even though each had fancy numbers, Warner was the difference

Wilson is a special talent and the Hawks don't win without him. Plain and simple.
I think Bradford can be a special QB too, and I think he will show that next season. But the difference is that one has done it, and the other we hope (and expect) can

I think Bradford has the kind of skill set that makes you go ... its how he plays mentally that I am concerned about. He hasn't developed as quickly as I had hoped he would. He doesn't play fast... too slow. People like to throw the old "team around him" argument. And there is validity to that but how many wow plays or extraordinary plays do you see from him? How many wow games? How often does he outsmart a defense? How often has he beaten consistent single coverage defenses give him because they were worried about Stacy and then SJ before him? Oh yeah and then hes hurt every other year. Its just frustrating for some of us because its now heading into year 5 and we are still asking who is Sam Bradford.

IMO even with a lesser team around him we should still see things in Bradford that clearly identify him as being special. Unfortunately I don't see that. I haven't given up completely because I am a Rams fan of 40+ years but I do think its time he start showing that he is not just along for the ride but can be a difference maker!

 

[Dieter the Brock]

No but the team wasnt the same with Bulger or Green even though each had fancy numbers, Warner was the difference

Wilson is a special talent and the Hawks dont win without him. Plain and simple.
I think Bradford can be a special QB too, and I think he will show that next season. But the difference is that one has done it, and the other we hope (and expect) can

Hey my fellow Dieter,
I remember watching that preseason game against SD before Trent Green went down / and calling by buddy on the phone and we both were flipping our lids with how great they looked - we were taking simultaneous bong tokes to celebrate, but then he got injured and we both almost started to cry and in came this Arena league scrub named Warner and we thought the world had ended. Boy were we wrong. What a great great season that was.

Honestly, I think if Trent had stayed healthy the Rams would have had a great season - would they have one the Super Bowl - nobody knows, but everything was clicking before he got injured.
Although I love Kurt Warner and believe he is my real dad, I have to say that Trent Green was poised for greatness
That's the breaks in football, man

But yes, Warner was the difference but he sure had some players around him to make it all that much more miraculous

p.s. Trent had some good years in KC after the fact

 

[dieterbrock]

I think Bradford has the kind of skill set that makes you go ... its how he plays mentally that I am concerned about. He hasn't developed as quickly as I had hoped he would. He doesn't play fast... too slow. People like to throw the old "team around him" argument. And there is validity to that but how many wow plays or extraordinary plays do you see from him? How many wow games? How often does he outsmart a defense? How often has he beaten to consistent single coverage defenses give him because they were worried about Stacy and then SJ before him? Oh yeah and then hes hurt every other year. Its just frustrating for some of us because its now heading into year 5 and we are still asking who is Sam Bradford.

IMO even with a lesser team around him we should still see things in Bradford that clearly identify him as being special. Unfortunately I don't see that. I haven't given up completely because I am a Rams fan of 40+ years but I do think its time he start showing that he is not just along for the ride but can be a difference maker!

You had me at "I think"
Lol
I'm with you 100%
Bradford's mechanics make my mouth drop. His release in my eyes is perfect. I love watching him throw it. On pure throwing motion, its him and Rodgers I like to watch the most. So I would love nothing more than for the production to match the potential

 

[jjab360]

Yep. Just like Warner made the difference with the GSOT.
The defense was already pretty darned good. And a good offense makes the defense job a heck of a lot easier
And his added dimension on offense helped
Lynch had a darned good year in 2011, but had no help

Warner broke records and completely changed the game of football, Wilson is merely a game manager on a team that doesn't even need him to pass for more than 3,400 yards, it's hardly an apt comparison.

 

[LesBaker]

Warner helped. As did a healthy Bruce, Holt, Timmerman, oh yeah and probably out best player Faulk.

Like Warner, Wilson helps but he isn't the only reason.

Someone needs a dickpunch! We need a "summon username" button!

Warner and Faulk were driving the bus!!!!!

(just goofing on ya FRO because of the choice of words)

 

[badnews]

IMO even with a lesser team around him we should still see things in Bradford that clearly identify him as being special. Unfortunately I don't see that. I haven't given up completely because I am a Rams fan of 40+ years but I do think its time he start showing that he is not just along for the ride but can be a difference maker!

I see those things that you don't. The fourth quarter victories, the clutch throws, I have seen Sam throw some passes while on the run that I have never seen from anyone else. I have seen him flick his wrist and thread a needle 40 yds down the field when the hit coming from the unblocked DE is imminent in .0001 seconds....
As soon as the national media sees more of these things (which is only going to happen for a team that wins consistently or is a media darling with or w/o success like the Cowboys), and more importantly comments on them, suddenly I think, many more will finally start seeing them for themselves.
Don't interpret that statement as a suggestion that you don't see things for yourself, or that you need others to tell you if someone is good. Everyone has their own way of making opinions.

 

[jrry32]

The lengths people go to in order to minimize the play of some players, while simulataneously pumping up the play of their own is laughable.

Russel Wilson on last years Ram team makes them a solid playoff team, with the sky as the limit. I hate the Seahawks with a passion but they got lucky and found the next Kurt Warner/Tom Brady diamond in the rough. Just because I root against them doesnt mean not giving credit where its due

I am enthusiastic about Sam returning to the team and proving he is worth it. But I'm not assuming, extrapolating or guessing he'd be anything more than .500 until he actually does it

Nah, what's laughable is how people will ignore the importance of the team in football. Russell Wilson is a quality starter. A top 10 QB. Right now, he's a better QB than Bradford. But he's not Peyton Manning. He's not Tom Brady. He's not Kurt Warner. At least not yet. He's a smart kid that operates mainly in a game manager type role on a run heavy team that plays elite defense.

I'm not sold Russell Wilson makes the 2013 Rams a playoff team. Especially if we're assuming the Seahawks have quality QB play in his absence. In order to make the playoffs, we would have had to win more games than New Orleans or San Francisco. Which games do we win with Wilson that we didn't win in 2013? If we don't win either SF game, that means we have to win FIVE more games.

hey jrry my bad on the 52tds... I obviously misstated. The record he holds was for the number of wins by a two year QB. Sorry about that... wasn't intentional

Didn't think it was. Wins aren't an individual stat.

Yep...not to mention that Warner had 62 over just 27 games in his first 2 years. I don't count the one pass he threw in 1998 as a "season". That said, I agree with some of ED's points. I think we all need to see more from Bradford this year, and I gives a flying fluck about #'s,......I am talking wins. Obviously, winning is a TEAM function, but this TEAM won with the same regularity when KC was in there as it did with Sam. Not a knock on Sam, and I realize that the game plan changed when SB went out, but as well as Sam played in the first 7 games, the Rams were still 3-4....and 2 of those wins were against the Jags and Texans.

Sam was far from perfect but the team was thoroughly terrible in games 2-4. No running game, poor defensive play, mediocre pass protection, poor WR play, and mediocre/poor QB play. It was just a mess.

A team starts to win when they find their identity and play well together. That didn't happen until the 5th game. And sadly, Bradford was injured during the 7th game.

I think we win 9 games with Bradford in 2013. Can I back that up? No. But I don't think it's a huge leap.

Not even worth discussing Kellen Clemens. Don't think anyone would argue he's nearly as good of a QB as Bradford. The team winning with the same regularity only provides further evidence for why wins and losses should not be attributed to an individual player.

 

[Zaphod]

No but the team wasnt the same with Bulger or Green even though each had fancy numbers, Warner was the difference

Wilson is a special talent and the Hawks dont win without him. Plain and simple.
I think Bradford can be a special QB too, and I think he will show that next season. But the difference is that one has done it, and the other we hope (and expect) can

I know people love Warner but ... when the offensive line started deteriorating Bulger's quick release was a better fit for that offense.

Sure, that's the tail wagging the dog ... they should have prioritized fixing the line.

But I remember thinking at the time how Warner was trying to force it to the point where he was hurting the team.

I don't know, I just see quarterbacks as more of a product of a team. Don't get me wrong, the good ones can really elevate their team, but the team is always exposed in the end.

 

[jrry32]

IMO even with a lesser team around him we should still see things in Bradford that clearly identify him as being special. Unfortunately I don't see that. I haven't given up completely because I am a Rams fan of 40+ years but I do think its time he start showing that he is not just along for the ride but can be a difference maker!

That's where we differ. I have seen that.

How often has he beaten consistent single coverage defenses give him because they were worried about Stacy and then SJ before him?

He started shredding defenses when Stacy became a starter. His play-action numbers were incredible.

SJ? He wasn't enough of a threat in 2012 to force defenses to stack the box. He was hurt in 2011 for the majority of the year that Bradford was healthy. So we're going back to Bradford's rookie year as the last time that SJ really was someone that forced defenses to alter their approach.

 

[dieterbrock]

Warner broke records and completely changed the game of football, Wilson is merely a game manager on a team that doesn't even need him to pass for more than 3,400 yards, it's hardly an apt comparison.

Youre correct. But if you read what I actually wrote, my comparison was Warner vs Green or Bulger

 

[jrry32]

Of course nobody "knows" that but Seattle without Wilson in 2011 is 7-9
With him as a rookie, they're 11-5
Then last year?
He's the straw that stirs their drink

They went 7-9 with Tarvaris Jackson. That's ignoring the large group of players they added and the young players that progressed.

I think if you replaced Tarvaris Jackson with any quality QB, you'll see a 3-4 game jump in wins.

Wilson isn't "the straw that stirs their drink". Wilson is simply A straw that stirs their drink. There's A LOT more than one.

 

[dieterbrock]

They went 7-9 with Tarvaris Jackson. That's ignoring the large group of players they added and the young players that progressed.

I think if you replaced Tarvaris Jackson with any quality QB, you'll see a 3-4 game jump in wins.

Wilson isn't "the straw that stirs their drink". Wilson is simply A straw that stirs their drink. There's A LOT more than one.

Actually, you're incorrect. They went 7-7 with Jackson, but hey why bother with the facts.
But no doubt, average QB play had the team hovering at .500 under Jackson watch. 60% comp, 15 td in 14 games, 79+ rating 6.9 YPA
When it had exceptional QB play, they won 4 more games, which is an increase of 57%, no small feat
64% comp %, 30 td in 16 games, 100 passer rating and 7.9 ypa.
And Seattle doesnt have an earth shattering o-line or superstar WR
So yeah, if the Rams want to increase their win total like Seattle did, a significant increase in the QB productivity is required
Sam's 2 year numbers are average, 59.9% comp, 36 td in 23 games (Needle pointing UP on this one) 85 passer rating and measly 6.6 ypa

So we all agree that Bradford is far superior to QB like Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens, we'll need his productivity to mirror that of a Wilson not just be better than average if we want the translation of wins to go from 7 to 11

 

[FRO]

Actually, you're incorrect. They went 7-7 with Jackson, but hey why bother with the facts.
But no doubt, average QB play had the team hovering at .500 under Jackson watch. 60% comp, 15 td in 14 games, 79+ rating 6.9 YPA
When it had exceptional QB play, they won 4 more games, which is an increase of 57%, no small feat
64% comp %, 30 td in 16 games, 100 passer rating and 7.9 ypa.
And Seattle doesnt have an earth shattering o-line or superstar WR
So yeah, if the Rams want to increase their win total like Seattle did, a significant increase in the QB productivity is required
Sam's 2 year numbers are average, 59.9% comp, 36 td in 23 games (Needle pointing UP on this one) 85 passer rating and measly 6.6 ypa

So we all agree that Bradford is far superior to QB like Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens, we'll need his productivity to mirror that of a Wilson not just be better than average if we want the translation of wins to go from 7 to 11

I think you pointing out that they went 7-7 with Jackson at QB proves his point. They were .500 with a backup quality QB that wasn't very good. Meaning the team around him was pretty good. Insert a solid starting caliber QB and improvement in other areas of the roster and bam you have a playoff team. Nobody here is saying Wilson is a bad QB. I don't think he is elite yet, but that's another debate for another day. Wilson deserves credit, but not 100% of it.

 

[wrstdude]

Actually, you're incorrect. They went 7-7 with Jackson, but hey why bother with the facts.
But no doubt, average QB play had the team hovering at .500 under Jackson watch. 60% comp, 15 td in 14 games, 79+ rating 6.9 YPA
When it had exceptional QB play, they won 4 more games, which is an increase of 57%, no small feat
64% comp %, 30 td in 16 games, 100 passer rating and 7.9 ypa.
And Seattle doesnt have an earth shattering o-line or superstar WR
So yeah, if the Rams want to increase their win total like Seattle did, a significant increase in the QB productivity is required
Sam's 2 year numbers are average, 59.9% comp, 36 td in 23 games (Needle pointing UP on this one) 85 passer rating and measly 6.6 ypa

So we all agree that Bradford is far superior to QB like Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens, we'll need his productivity to mirror that of a Wilson not just be better than average if we want the translation of wins to go from 7 to 11

You still didn't address any of the other players SEA acquired from Jackson to Wilson. Making it sound like Wilson jumped on the exact same team doesn't make it true. Correlation does not imply causation. Additionally, you're understating how good the SEA WRs are.

 

[dieterbrock]

I think you pointing out that they went 7-7 with Jackson at QB proves his point. They were .500 with a backup quality QB that wasn't very good. Meaning the team around him was pretty good. Insert a solid starting caliber QB and improvement in other areas of the roster and bam you have a playoff team. Nobody here is saying Wilson is a bad QB. I don't think he is elite yet, but that's another debate for another day. Wilson deserves credit, but not 100% of it.

Jackson wasnt brought there to be backup, he was brought there to compete for the starting gig. And his mediocre QB play prevented the team from winning more.
Mediocre QB play prevents the Rams from winning more games.
Its a QB driven league, and if Sam can post numbers like Wilson, I guarantee they win more than the 7 games

 

[dieterbrock]

You still didn't address any of the other players SEA acquired from Jackson to Wilson. Making it sound like Wilson jumped on the exact same team doesn't make it true. Correlation does not imply causation. Additionally, you're understating how good the SEA WRs are.

Really? Which WR? Becasue again, they are revamping their core. They have been average. Their best producer was let go in FA despite offering them a home town discount.
I just dont see the reasoning behind minimizing the play of Wilson. I find it laughable. I want our QB to match that production. The best we have to go on is reasons as to why he hasnt done it yet.